duchos
| Posted On: 04/18/08 04:30:40 AM |
Age 30, MA |
http://geo.ya.com/kotimare/ <a href="http://geo.ya.com/kotimare/">bleper</a>
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Re: Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 03/04/07 11:26:47 AM |
Age 63, MS |
One of the things I have learned through this life is that 'feelings' often lie to us. We make decisions of current feelings, not necessarily facts. Whether I feel like a liar but do not lie, then does that make me a liar? God says all sins are unclean in his eyes. Having worked with people who are ex-gay, I can say without a diet that we have a Father who is in the business of cleaning us up, redeeming us from our sin. Also, another thing I know for sure: all of us lie to ourselves whether we wish to or not. We make concessions about all sorts of things daily. It doesn't make us truthful. I would suggest if anyone wants to understand more about homosexuality, then call or email wwww.exodus.to and ask for an informational packet. Its free and its _very_ educational. And write to the various ministris under Exodus banner - there are so many testimonies that clearly show the map of how one ends up living homosexually. Today kids are told it is something 'fun' to try. (My expression is: sin glitters) ... but sex is an incredibly powerful emotion - and its easy to become addicted to something that powerful.
But homosexuality really is not about sex but about unmet needs. If my developmental needs are not met as I am growing up (from birth on) then I will forever 'feel' different, as though something were not quite right with me. That doesn't *mean* a person is homosexual if they are attracted to the same gender. for males, perhaps they did not get the bonding with their father, did not _learn_ how men operate in this world. When we have missed a developmental milestone then there will be a "hole in our heart" until we go back and understand it and fill the hole up. There are many programs that address this - again, check with Exodus.
What I don't understand is if a person wishes not to be homosexual and goes into therapy to deal with factors which set him on that path (from his perspective), how can the gay community be up in arms about his decision to change? They seem to get very upset and up in arms if anyone says "I am no longer homosexually inclinded but have been changed through the power of Jesus direction and love for me. I went to therapy for guidance through the factors and to learn more about my self and my unconscious decisions." Why does the gay community simply say, "Okay, people do choose to change and work at it." One is not still gay just because one sometimes thinks of a sinful thought. I once had an affair (which I am not proud of) but I no longer commit adultry. Does that make me still an adulter (is this such a word?) if I see an attractive man. If so, then everyone who watches McDreamy on Gray's Antomy is commiting adultry! So, we have radom thoughts about all kinds of things. Its if we act on them that decides whether we are an 'ex' or not.
I have a friend who is an addict (and she admits it) but every week that she goes off the wagon, she tells us she 'slipped'. Now that isn't a slip if she continues to do her drugs - that is a lie she tells herself. But if a ex-gay man or woman continues to live outside of the gay identification and behaviour, how can anyone say they are still gay? Its like the gay community is afraid to admit change is possible. It takes a lot to change any habit or lifestyle. We all have to work at the lies we tell ourselves - and at the ones others tell us. What is the benefit to the gay community who tells us ex-gays aren't real? Its only words they say, not truth and it keeps them in their gay box, a place where they don't explore their own history, pain, family of origin, etc. www.alexandersroad.com (momBert)
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The ex-gay gene?
| Posted On: 07/29/05 06:33:05 PM |
Age 47, TX |
I heard someone say that if there was a gay gene wouldn't it have wiped itself out after all these years since gay partners can't have children together?
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Re: Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/15/05 04:57:25 PM |
Age 34, IN |
Adolescents are under an extraordinary amount of sexual pressure. They live in a sex-saturated culture, the messages they receive from the media and, in school, communicate an expectation that sex is part of having a social life. Rarely do they hear about the heart-wrenching consequences of being sexually active, both physically and emotionally. The agenda pushing sexual freedom is engaged in trying to normalize homosexuality.
Teens are pushed to decide early if they are gay, straight, or bisexual, as young as middle school. But kids in their teens are no more equipped to decide their sexual orientation than they are to choose a college major and career.
A study done by the University of Minnesota determined that at age twelve, 1/4 of the students were unsure of their sexual orientation. Their bodies were just beginning to experience the changes that would turn them from children into adults, and they were being asked if they were gay, straight, or bisexual. No wonder so many were confused! But by age seventeen, the number unsure of their sexual orientation had dropped to 5%.
Psychiatrist Dr. Jeffrey Satinover says, Without any intervention whatsoever, three out of four boys who think theyre gay at age 16 arent by 25. So if were going to treat homosexuality as a state, 75% of gays become non-gay spontaneously. Thats a statement which I consider ludicrous, but if you accept this tacit propositionthat being gay is an actual state, like being short or being tall, black or whitethen in three out of four people that condition changes itself
spontaneously. . . Thats with no outside intervention, just the natural processes of development. We need to tell teens, Its too soon to declare a major in your sexuality.
Teens are pressured to experiment with both sexes as the only way they can know their sexual orientation.
Teenage sexual behavior can have lifelong consequences, but they are not in a position to recognize that. Their brains dont finish developing until age 25, and they tend to make decisions out of the region of the brain that controls emotion. Tthey are easily swayed to make dangerous and irresponsible choices, like engaging in any kind of sexual behavior.
Teens need to be encouraged to face the sexual pressures and stand against them.
Andy Comiskey shared a painful experience in junior high, out of the blue, the whole school was abuzz with the rumor that Andy was gay. He struggled with his sexual identity, but he had never acted out. Later on, he made it into a selffulfilling prophecy and immersed himself in the gay lifestyle.
When asked, If you could rewrite the script of that incident, knowing what you do today, what would it look like? He said, Oh, I wish there had been some sensitive adults, especially in the church, to talk freely with me and other kids about gender insecurity. They wouldnt even have to talk about homosexuality or use the wordmany kids can relate to the idea of gender insecurity. It would have been so freeing for me to have someone acknowledge that its a real thing, but it didnt mean I was gay. I wish there were people who could have spoken truth into my life at that point. One kind of truth that kids should hear is that around age ten, attraction for the same sex begins. This attraction is emotional, non-sexual, and involuntary. It doesnt mean teens are gay or lesbian; it means they are transitioning through normal adolescent development. We have to learn to attach to people of our same sex before we can learn to attach to people of the opposite sex. Some kids dont feel secure in their masculinity or femininity for a variety of reasons, usually having to do with not being affirmed by parents and peers. God gives each of us needs for attention, approval and affection. When those needs are not met, the onset of hormones can sexualize this hole in the heart. Some teens can find themselves longing for the attention, approval and affection of people of their same gender. When others put on them the false and hurtful labels of homo, they can easily find themselves believing the lies.
When teens are not secure in their gender, they dont need to be pointed to gay groups at school. They need to be affirmed and encouraged to develop their innate, God-given masculinity or femininity, to see their gender as good. They need time to finish growing up.
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Re: Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/13/05 04:34:38 PM |
Age 16, CA |
I completely agree with you.
Love in Him,
Joel
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Re: Re: Re: The EX-Gay Gene & Swedish trial testing
| Posted On: 07/11/05 07:16:21 AM |
Age 48, GA |
I agree with your remarks requiring vigorous scientific validation and ever widening societal and ethnic referencing for the Swedish trials to be considered valid. Additionally Id like to see pre-pubescent subjects studied as well to see if the reaction is indeed immutable or learned. I also appreciate your aside, by the time you are middle-aged although my mirror tells me differently.
As a gay man I know it is impossible to change ones sexual orientation. I also know that many people, for various reasons, hate the gay person they are. But we do them a disservice by encouraging them to buy into the fantasy that they can change just as we feed in hysteria by saying gays can recruit and convert straight people. You are one or the other and theres nothing anyone can do about it.
These Swedish trials presented a way of testing those who claim to have changed . In the past the only means of testing would have been measuring physiological changes in response to stimuli, namely erotica, which most subjects would have refused on moral grounds-hence no test and their claims go unchallenged which perpetrates the lie and does real harm to people who should spend their energies accepting themselves as God made them. This Swedish trial presented a way around that but dont get me wrong. I know that ex-gays are living a lie, however they have every right to live any way they choose. But they dont have a right to lie to others and give false hope where none exists without proving it--such a sis possible.
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Re: Re: The EX-Gay Gene & Swedish trial testing
| Posted On: 07/09/05 12:50:35 AM |
Age 55, TX |
Having read recent reports of the Swedish trials, to which you alluded in your reply post, I was intrigued but saw little of value at present.
Such a study must be replicated in different cultures using the same techniques with nearly identical equipment in order to make detailed comparisons. Only if each replication of effort in various settings using the same technology provides statistically matching results (!) does it become a compelling hypothesis. The hypothesis must then be tested further, using different techniques and larger populations. It also must be examined from the polar opposite question. When the resulting data successfully demonstrates the opposite, and is statistically consistent with the expected outcome, the concept becomes eligible for consideration as a theory.
Of course a theory is just that, an unproven theory. So you can see why a single Swedish study has far, far to go before its results can be viewed with any credibility. By the time you are middle-aged, perhaps there will be a test developed which will have demonstrated some degree of validity. It may be a race between finding the elusive gene or developing a fairly conclusive test.
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Re: Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/08/05 08:33:21 PM |
Age 55, TX |
Having read the full text of your post, I believe you must be younger than 30 years. Several concepts appear in your note which began showing up in public discourse during my late twenties. Specifically, statements like "God made me this way," and "the word homosexual is not in the Bible," and "homosexuality is a creation of modern psychiatry" are all examples of liberal-speak.
Anti-militarism was popularized in media during the decade of the sixties; consequently journalists who came of age during that decade consistently reveal it in their reporting. An opinion may not be valid, but the speaker feels his statement is reasonable, so despite lacking scientific verification, hearers in agreement with that speaker may propagate the statement ad infinitum. Thus such statements appear with increasing frequency in popular media. Eventually, it is the frequency of possibly-not-valid statements which confers an appearance of consensus.
Perhaps we can agree that consensus can be reached erroneously. In example:
(15th century) widespread belief that the world is flat, (19th century) nationalistic pride run amok (Teutonic superiority), or even (20th century) racism.
My point is that my generation recognized and fought for racial equality, yet we remain vigilant to prevent the resurgence of racism. Previous generations (WWI, WWII) recognized the difference between patriotism and nationalism, and remain vigilant on those points. The development of chemicals preventing implantation of a fertilized ovum came into widespread use, resulting in sexual freedom not particularly uplifting or beneficial to society.
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Re: Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/08/05 07:43:07 PM |
Age 55, TX |
Mombert's post has first person credibility. Yes, we need to teach this in our churches.
Unfortunately, seminaries of mainline denominations have been significantly liberal for several decades, and it shows! The local church I attend called a minister some six years ago and was unable to find a conservative. The mismatch has brought about occasional tensions. The minister has learned there are limits to the quantity of liberal speak this congregation can tolerate.
Thank you for an intelligent post on the subject. old_daisy49@yahoo.com
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Re: Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/07/05 03:54:32 PM |
Age 51, NC |
Awhile back, Robert Bork told of an "epiphany" he had in a public discussion about abortion. It finally dawned on him that the fetus had to be human, for it could be nothing else- either definitively, biologically, or genetically. Expecting this revelation to give new light on the subject, he was shocked to see the female proponent of abortion get enraged and then say, "So what? That's not even the question!"
So it is with the gay gene. If there is such, then there must be such for every other sexual obsession known to man. But when pushed, the protagonists simply say, "All we are concerned about is sex between two consenting adults of the same gender."
How convenient to relegate your argument to only data that proves useful for propaganda purposes. The gene argument is real to them only as long as it is useful. When real genetic investigation takes on fascist implications, see how quickly it ceases to be true.
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Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/07/05 03:24:39 PM |
Age 61, MS |
First: I am a mother of a homosexual son. Two: I worked as a full time volunteer for an Exodus ministry for over 1.5 years and it was life changing and certainly 'mind altering', for I saw people who had totally changed and not only were deeply devout Christians who KNEW what God had done for them, but were happily married, had children, and were so grateful for what God had so lovingly done for them. Everyone of them talked about the environmental issues within the family of origin and their own perceptions that were confused, that created their homosexuality. Even today we have so many children being sexually molested on the news; think about the years this was going on and we didn't know about it... and it created confusion in those children. The pedophiles who will hang onto the coattails of gay activists will be given 'special rights' to ...because they were born this way and can't help themselves? Where will it stop? At the loss of our children and families? It is already happening.
We now have a society that supports being gay and **tells confused strugglers** they were born this way - with NO confirmed scientific data that supports this. It leaves the struggler to not know where to turn for help. (Check out www.exodus.to) Our churches must be part of this assistance, which means we must help educate ALL of the church bodies. I can tell you there are deep concerns from all walks of life: mothers, fathers, siblings, spouses, children, friends and neighbors. We have to start dialouging about this with one another and looking at what ex-gays can teach us and tell us about the process of going into homosexual and its causes and coming out of it. Above all, we have a heavenly Father who truly doesn't want us to sin against our own bodies whether straight or gay. God is standing beside us, whether straight or gay, and sees ALL we do and he grieves with us and for us. Ultimately we all stand before Him when we die and must justify our actions - what we do physically, think and say - and we all need to ask ourselves: how well will my excuse of "I was born this way" set with God? Then go to a church, go to Exodus, ask for support in coming out of this life choice (its choice by default and lack of information, but prodded on by society). By the way, have you wondered why the gay community wants more people to declare themselves gay? It provides more men and women to be actively sexual with. But to lose our souls for this misperception is staggering. We have two choices: we are with God and all that it implies or we are NOT with God and what that implies; we get to choose.
You are welcome to write me: MomBert www.alexandersroad@yahoo.com I wish peace to everyone who is contemplating this issue.
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Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/07/05 12:26:03 PM |
Age 63, MO |
As a bible based Christian I consider (as does God's Word) that homosexuality is a sin - same as lying, adultery, drunkeness, the list goes on.However it's practically the only one being touted as an alternative life-style that the individual has absolutely no control over.I'm at a loss to explain why so many heterosexuals defend and promote this self-destructive choice. I do not believe that there should be any civil laws supporting homosexual activity nor laws against it. We live in a country that allows us the freedom to make personal choices-even if it kills us.
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Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/07/05 10:09:57 AM |
Age 48, TX |
firstly, not all christians agree that homosexuality is a sin, only those who use a modern and incorrect translation of the original aramaic and greek. Niether of these languages had a word for homosexual, it is a 19th century word made by psychitrists in victorian times to describe what they considered a disease, much like they felt pretty much anything having to do with sexuality was a disease. In aramic, the translation is roughly "those who sleep with men", which, if you put it into a cultural and societal perspective for that time period, most likely referred to temple prostitutes, who were usually men, or the transgendered.
As far as the old testiment, well yes they did not believe in what we call today as homosexuality, but then they also did not believe in usery, wearing clothes made from multiple plants, eating pigs or shellfish, and a number of other things many "modern" christians feel no compunction with doing.
As far as exgays, well to be ex-gay they would need to have no more thoughts or responses to the same sex, being wholly attracted only to the opposite sex, and never again thinking of the same in that manner. How many ex-gays can say this with all truth and honesty? The ones I have read about say they still 'struggle' to control their wrong urges. Any good therapist would tell you, that is not being ex, that is just repression, which is not a very good thing.
Now as one who has an attraction, since I was young to both men and women, though more women than men, I can not say if it is genetics or not, I just know that, this is how I am, and who I am. This is the way God made me, and we can sit and argue forever back and forth about it, but to me, it is a natural part of who I am, and I do not believe in a God who would make me a vessel of sin. I follow my savior Jesus' teachings, who, when you consider it, said not one word about homosexuality, that you judge not, lest ye be judged. Think about that next time you tell a gay person they are a sinner, or their "lifestyle choice" will lead them to damnation.
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Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/07/05 10:08:21 AM |
Age 57, TN |
Well thought and well written. Thank you.
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Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/07/05 05:48:56 AM |
Age 48, GA |
The problem with "ex-gay", and of course the many "ex-ex-gay" is that there was no way to prove it. There have always been self loathing Jews and self loathing Blacks and one need only to read most of what passes for a Christian viewpoint these days to understand why there could be self loathing gays--it's not easy to stand up for yourself against both God and country. But, especially in the case of Blacks, there was very little anyone could do about the color of their skin--they were stuck being black whether they liked it or not. The same is true of being gay-it's just not evident on the outside so it's much easier to fake a conversion.
I challenge any "ex-gay" man to undergo the same testing used in the recent Swedish trials, let them enhale male and female pherenomes while their hypathalmus is being scanned. This test would be impossible to fake and has the added benefit of not being morally objectional.
I know that being born gay presents a huge problem for some, it's hard to condem something that is not a choice. But believe me, I'm no gay activist and probably more conservative than you, there was no choice involved in my being gay. As far back as I can remember I knew I was different and this is true of all of the gay people I know.
If you truly believe sexual orientation can be chnaged, it can't I assure you, then lets test it.
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Re: The EX-Gay Gene
| Posted On: 07/05/05 02:21:09 PM |
Age 4, P |
It makes one wonder, what's going to happen when the pedophiles decide there's a pedophilia gene - I tried this argument with some one suggesting that homosexuality is genetic, they said that there's not a gene for pedophilia, so I asked: how do you know? I got no answer just silence.
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