Re: Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 08/27/07 03:29:27 AM |
Age 53, IA |
Please rethink your "take" on the widow's gift? Back up a few verses and see how Jesus was teaching his disciples to "beware of the scribes...which devour widows' houses..." Jesus says absolutely nothing about how the widow felt about what she gave. There are no words of praise. Jesus could have used a poor man or a poor woman for His example, but He specifically chose a poor widow out of the multitudes, tying it directly to His criticism of the scribes "who devour widows" houses. She was giving all she had to live on because she was being fleeced by those who were supposed to care for the poor.
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 08/25/07 08:19:04 PM |
Age 53, IA |
For a more balanced view on giving see http://www.inyourbible.com/
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 08/25/07 08:10:55 PM |
Age 53, IA |
I forgot to mention that many use the excuse that Abraham tithed before the law. OK. Animal sacrifice was done before the law, as was plural marriage and a number of other practices. If you want to use that as a reason to tithe, then why aren't we doing all those other things as well? The fact is that we are told that Abraham gave 10% of other people's stuff he had just gotten back in war. He gave nothing of his own, and he only gave once that we know of.
A note on also "robbing God"; the whole of Malachi was addressed to the priests, not the people. Try context, please. How were the priests robbing God? See 3:5 as to who they were defrauding.The Bible says when you lend to the poor, you are lending to the Lord. Does that help?
No, the tithe is not for the NT. Pastors who instruct their church members to tithe are infringing on the right of the Holy Spirit to tell believers what they should give. I can tell you from my own experience that when you barely have enought to live on and are giving as much as you can by the leading of the Spirit, and a pastor is telling you weekly that you must "tithe" it's a real Spirit killer.
Something I came across at ptmin.org said it better than I can ever express it: "Mandatory tithing equals oppression to the poor. Not a few poor Christians have been thrown headlong into further poverty because they have been told that if they do not tithe, they are robbing God. When tithing is taught as God's command, Christians who can barely make ends meet are guilted into deeper poverty. In this way, tithing evacuates the gospel from being "good news to the poor." Rather than good news, it becomes a heavy burden. Instead of liberty, it becomes oppression. We are so apt to forget that the original tithe that God established for Israel was to benefit the poor, not hurt them.
Conversely, modern tithing is good news to the rich. To a high-earner, 10% is but a paltry sum. Tithing, therefore, appeases the consciences of the rich, while it has no significant impact on their lifestyles. Not a few wealthy Christians are deluded into thinking they are "obeying God" because they throw a measly 10% of their income into the offering plate."
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 08/25/07 07:35:27 PM |
Age 53, IA |
I'm going to rephrase what I've written elsewhere on this site because this author also forgets what the tithe was for: the Levite, the widow, the poor, and the stranger among us. The tithe also only applied to those who made their living from the land. The poor were not required to tithe, but rather received a part of the tithe. Is it equitable that all Christians give 10%? I would submit to you it is not. Consider the widow's gift. Jesus said she gave more than they all because it was what she had to live on. I find it rather appalling that most preachers hold this up as an example of how to give without expecting others to impoverish themselves to the same level as the widow, but expect the poor to become even poorer by tithing them at the same rate as the wealthy. One more thing - How can you keep your right hand from knowing what your left is doing when you're so busy keeping track of that 10%?
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 04/16/07 10:47:00 AM |
Age 55, C |
"Tithing is assumed in the New Testament"
In love, we offer scriptural correction. There is not a single verse to any church or saint in the NT either instructing or giving an example of tithing by Christians. Scripture forbids building doctrine on assumption: Isa. 28:10-11. Jesus Mt 23:23, said tithing was "of the law", and Christ "having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances". -Eph 2:15 Please see our article: http://www.preparehisway.com/tithe
Not one verse to any church or saint in the New Covenant implies, instructs, or commands Christian tithing. None of the apostles took tithes from any church. The ministry is called to serve Gods people not profit from them.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 02/05/07 09:55:51 PM |
Age 37, WA |
very good attitiude to have.Scripture does say 10 percent. There are those who would argue with it, or tithing all together, but isnt that just greed?
there are those that argue that there are people who are rich without tithing, but the point is do you know about tithing? are you a christian? knowledge is power, but with knowledge also comes responsibility. We cfan all have our incomes taken from us if were not faithful with our convictions from god(i.e...unemployed). Would you rather have god take care of you or the government? Id rather god because he isnt greedy. Governments are made of humans which are sometimes greedy.
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 09/19/06 06:52:25 PM |
Age 61, GA |
Tithe-teachers control the churches, the pulpits, the airwaves and the bookstores. They will not allow the other viewpoint to be presented. What are they afraid of? If it is God's truth then it cannot be defeated. You treat those who disagree wiht you as troublemakers and often ask them to leave the church. Brave indeed. We are eager to present our viewpoints in an honest Berean Christian discussion. For five years nobody has accepeted the invitation. Russell Earl Kelly, Ph. D. Please allow me to use your forum to present a short defense of the opposing viewpoint.
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 07/01/06 05:12:51 PM |
Age 50, NC |
Despite what others may say, tithing is under Old Testament Law. Under the NEW Covenant there is no "required" or "legalistic" tithe. As believers we are to give to the Lord first and freely trusting Him. Supporting your church is important, but if the Lord Jesus lays upon you and your husband's heart a Christian education for your children and this brings a family to minimal means is this not part of giving to the Lord? Supporting missionaries? That too? I personally see no legal contract under the New Covenant to 10%. It is a guideline but it is even better to give with our hearts knowing what Jesus did for us on the cross.
Many under the tithe law are under guil, guilt, guilt. There is no condemnation to the believer. (RMS 8:1) Give freely to Jesus first but not with a LAW to your heads and hearts.The Lord knows our hearts and will give crowns to those who truly have given to Him as faithfully and best.
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Re: Re: Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/27/06 07:17:32 PM |
Age 56, AR |
I tithe because I was taught from scriptures that it's right to do it. So I did, and was totally blessed, and yes, I love for my Father to bless me because I trust him to take care of our needs. I tithe 10% because there has to be a starting point. If there were not somewhere to start, I would think of a reason not to give and go shopping. I should be giving more to the work of the Lord. Giving is a matter of the heart, and God knows all hearts. And, I would be just as happy in the woods or the streets, I guess, if the church had to close it's doors.
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/26/06 12:15:32 PM |
Age 51, NY |
The problem is not a lack of tithing but a lack of leadership. Please note Ezekiel 34 and Jeremiah 23. The sheep have been fleeced by so many ministers, that they have become tithing shy or simply do not have the resources anymore. To say, as some have taught, that even if you give to backslidden minister, God will bless you anyway, is wrong! Expecting people to support failing ministries comes from a complaining spirit that seeks its support from man and not from God. Men of faith do not whine over a lack of cash!
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Re: Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/23/06 04:02:14 AM |
Age 57, VA |
By "Him" I mean "God." Karen
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Re: Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/23/06 03:59:58 AM |
Age 57, VA |
Let me clarify that "HIM" means "God." Karen
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/22/06 10:52:27 PM |
Age 57, VA |
Have you ever heard it said that if, I repeat, "IF," today, people were asked to take the Mark of the Beast for buying and selling, that 90% of the Christians would take the Mark. Why??!!! Because if they can't trust Him enough to give Him 10% of thier money, how could they possibly trust Him with 100% of thier money?!!!!Karen
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/22/06 06:34:24 PM |
Age 52, VA |
Here's another article on tithing.---
http://www.geocities.com/hotsprings/3658/tithing.html
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Re: Re: Feeling the Love
| Posted On: 06/22/06 07:02:37 AM |
Age 58, GA |
Susan, thanks for reading my article and for jumping in and toning down the "love" in the group. I know I come on strong and hard sometimes but I really want people to think things through and I guess that I've done.
It is great to hear your testimony. As a 36 year tither I too know that God alwasys provides. I've never met a person in my life who said, "If only I hadn't tithed."
I know this sounds insensitive but I think some folks who say they can't afford to tithe are in that position because they didn't tithe in the first place. That ol devourer is good at stealing things. Be blessed or rather let the blessings continue. Thanks again.
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Re: Re: Feeling the Love
| Posted On: 06/22/06 06:04:54 AM |
Age 27, TX |
Well praise God! I am glad that GOd has taken car of you so well. We have three children, ages one, two and three and people (particularly family) do often tell us that we can't financially support our children, much less more, and are horrified that we want more. But we know that if it's God's will for us to have them He will provide.
We are praying that our next blessing will be a van like you talked about. We know a family in church who have a van, completely paid for, that they will be getting rid of when they can afford payments on a new car. My prayer is that God blesses them so they can bless us and give us the van. Right now we borrow my parents' van and it's old, has lots of miles, and is falling apart. We can't all fit in my husband's econo car, and my parents don't let me drive (never have) so I can't take my kids to homeschool co-op or anything unless my parents are available to take us.
Anyway, May God continue to bless you as you bless others,
Sarah T
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Re: Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/21/06 04:23:14 PM |
Age 27, TX |
"I don't think we have to tithe to the church but to the work of the Lord. I believe that most of the work that is pleasing to God today is not taking place in most of our churches."
I totally understand how you feel. My church is one of the better churches, but I still would like to give some of our tithe to other sources. But, we give 10% to the church, an additional offering to our African sister churches and orphange run by our Kenyan churches, and then offerings to other ministries too. Sometimes it's a real struggle and I question "God, do we really have to give 10% (before taxes) to the local church?" But, my husband insists that we do and you know what? God has blessed us so much. When we first married my husband was making only $29,000. With the birth of each child he has had a raise. He now makes, after four years, nearly $45,000! My parents helped us buy a fabulous house (mobile home, but it's still nice!) We owed over $200,000 to the hospital for an emergency delivery and NICU stay for our two month preemie, and yet the hospital forgave us our debt. One month stay for me and two week stay for my daughter plus OB care and an emergency c-section totaled in the end to $1,800- that's less then the insurance would have required from us. We have had people give us furniture, apliances, clothing, groceries. Our backyard is full of play ground equipment and I've paid a total of $20. God has truly blessed us!
" What is wrong with a General Steele building that looks nice...why does the church have to look like the headquarters of Microsoft?" LOL I laugh at this because our church is in an old roller rink. It's a big grey metal building. It doesn't even look like a church. On the inside it's nice, but we've done most of the work ourselves (like the lovely murals in the nurseries.)
"Why do so many church buildings sit empty most of the time? Why do these huge churches not start a Christian school and give a FREE or extremely cheap Biblical education to needy inner city children" I sure wish this was possible for our church. We used to have a Christian school but we just didn't have enough money to keep it open. We are opening a Bible college and a drug dependency program, which don't cost quite so much to operate. I am also working on a special needs class because we have so many children with various needs and dificulties in the church (my preemie I spoke of has autism) You're right, most churches aren't like ours so the question shouldn't be "Should I give all my tithe to the church" it should be "Am I going to the right church?"
"I personally have found great pleasure and joy in giving to the Lord but that does not always mean giving to my church but to the people within the church" That's true. The church building isn't operational without money, though. Now, I think foregoing the cost of the building is a great way to spread the money farther. I am glad that someone in your church (you!) is looking out for the needs of the body.
"Let's face it, most churches would love to guilt you into giving them the entire 10% but if they don't deserve the entire 10% or God leads you to give 2% and then give 8% or even 15% somewhere else; then follow that prompting of the Holy Spirit."
I do believe in giving where God has led you to give. My church is one of those who say you should give all your tithe to the church (As my husband believes.) Although, I wouldn't say that our church 'guilts' us at all. If they are trying, they aren't doing a very good job of it because I think some aren't giving what they should. But then, I don't know what people are giving. I just know what I am giving and that God has blessed me for being faithful.
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Re: Feeling the Love
| Posted On: 06/21/06 03:49:16 PM |
Age 42, IL |
Whew! Just "feeling the love" flow from this discussion is interesting! Obviously some are afraid of legalism and use the old "legalist" tag to excuse themselves from simple obedience. Jesus said "IF ye love me ...keep my commandments...feed my sheep etc." I do believe tithing is commanded so I obey. I choose to do it as unto the Lord. He has blessed us beyond measure. We have seven children. We have owned two homes and four vehicles without any debt!!! We just gave away a vehicle yesterday because we didn't need it and didn't need to profit off of it! We gave it to someone who was going through financial counseling and who just recently started tithing! We didn't even know of their situation (they told us that after we told them we wanted to give them our van.) I wonder why God decided to impressed us to give our vehicle to them? Hmmm.......? I guess God blesses "legalist"?
Susan in IL
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Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/21/06 01:58:12 PM |
Age 39, MN |
I don't think we have to tithe to the church but to the work of the Lord. I believe that most of the work that is pleasing to God today is not taking place in most of our churches. I do believe some churches are doing God's work big time but most are not preaching the true Gospel and are building shrines (their new church) as a temple unto themselves. What is wrong with a General Steele building that looks nice...why does the church have to look like the headquarters of Microsoft? Why do so many church buildings sit empty most of the time? Why do these huge churches not start a Christian school and give a FREE or extremely cheap Biblical education to needy inner city children so they can get out of the crime invested, academically failing, inner-city schools.
I personally have found great pleasure and joy in giving to the Lord but that does not always mean giving to my church but to the people within the church...after all, the church is not the building but the people. I have found grandparents raising their grandchildren, a family whose father has lost a job for a period of time or a man of God that is doing the work of the Lord that has a specific financial need to allow them to effectively minister to God's people.
Often churches are not much better than the government in how they waste money. So, look for where God is doing His work and support that whether it is at the church you attend on Sunday or not. Support a missionary that is using biblical evangelism, support a widow or orphan...this is true religion.
If you can not also give at least a percentage of your gifts to your local church, then you should most likely find another church.
I for one am not falling for any pressure from any person to give my entire tithe to one specific church unless God leads me to do so. I prefer to find specific places where I see God working through His servants and support that work. Let's face it, most churches would love to guilt you into giving them the entire 10% but if they don't deserve the entire 10% or God leads you to give 2% and then give 8% or even 15% somewhere else; then follow that prompting of the Holy Spirit.
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Re: Re: Tithing Our Way to Victory
| Posted On: 06/21/06 01:22:40 PM |
Age 52, VA |
Nice article. I grew up being taught the traditional doctrine of tithing. I've read many articles such as this one which caused me to rethink what I had been taught all of these years. I think the traditional church fooled me again.
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