Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/23/06 11:49:24 AM |
Age 45, NC |
sorry but Jesus did NOT come to establish a government. John 18:36 "Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." when He returns He will bring His kingdom with Him and establish His reign on the earth. as for "redistribution of wealth" - nope don't believe it. many people falsely believe that if you are wealthy you are obviously not a Christian or Godly person. guess that makes Jesus one of those, huh? don't you think that the gifts the three wise men brought He still had? Think about it, if you were bringing gifts to honor a king wouldn't you bring the very best and open up your treasures to Him? Gold, Frankincense, and Myrrh were the gifts - yea yea i know everyone remembers the story and thinks they brought a mere pittance. do you REALLY think they would approach a king with just a few pieces. my belief is they travelled a long way with a HUGE caravan of camels laden with treasures. and don't forget solomon and david - neither of these kings was poor. the poor were to be allowed to glean the corners of the field which means they were required to go out and PICK THEIR OWN FOOD - THIS MEANS THEY HAD TO WORK TO GET THEIR OWN FOOD - it wasn't just given to them. THAT is the biblical way of helping the poor.
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Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/22/06 11:46:44 AM |
Age 52, VA |
It looks like you've mixed verses.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 Says that those who are perishing will be given a strong delusion-not the elect (the elect will not perish). Matthew 24:24 says that Satan will attempt to decieve the elect IF that were possible. Apparently he will not succeed.
2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 --and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Matthew 24:24 --For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the electif that were possible.
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Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/19/06 10:47:30 PM |
Age 45, IN |
For a different take on Christianity's current condition especially as practiced by so called conservatives visit,
antipasministries.com
"In the latter days I will send strong dilusion that even the very elect may be decieved".
This bible verse is a warning to true Christians unfortunatly most have been blinded by the "god of this world" which is Satan.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/16/06 10:07:01 PM |
Age 25, TN |
Did Jesus come to set up a government according to "New Testament principles"? From what I understand, Jesus refused to get caught up in the temptation to force others to live by NT principles. Any government based on Jesus' teachings (such as those in the Sermon on the Mount) would be far different from what our founding fathers decided on or any other government that has ever existed. We need to live up to these teachings as a Christian community (e.g., giving to anyone who asks, loaning to our enemies and without expecting repayment, turning the other cheek) long before we can expect anyone else to. That said, capitalism clearly favors people who are born into relatively wealthy families (and in wealthy countries) and people who are gifted in certain areas like engineering or business, both of which I am favored in. A certain amount of "providing for the general welfare" or "wealth redistribution" (they seem similar to me) can help in correcting these injustices, just like the Year of Jubilee does. Incidently, Jesus makes a direct reference to the Year of Jubilee when he begins his ministry by proclaiming the "year of the Lord's favor", so it seems that he thought the idea was important. Whether we should enforce it through the government is another question, but then we should also question whether we should enforce anti-gay marriage, anti-abortion, and other moral laws. If you want to email me directly to discuss this some more, you can do so at jzook 'at' memphis.edu. Justin
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Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/16/06 12:52:46 PM |
Age 55, OR |
This article is correct.
You do not have to be a 'liberal' to be destined for Hell, but if your worldview aligns with the 'liberal' agenda, then I think you are going to go there.
The ACLU sponsorship groups promote 30-1 abortions over adoptions in the 'family planning' organizations that are blatantly into selfish population control for whatever reason. Any Christian that is misguided enough to support such 'liberal' funding is going to have to answer for it. Furthermore, anyone that does not oppose evil is a willing party to it.
Waffle all you like. Quote texts and quibble over words 'till the cows come home. YOU, Sir or Madam, are going to Hell if you do not have the personal Saving Grace of Jesus guiding your footsteps every step of the way.
If you DO NOT have that Saving Grace daily leading and coaching in the Way you should walk, then most likely (whatever you call yourself) you will be taken in by man-made ideals such as 'liberalism'. I use quotes, because the common term 'liberal' is oxymoronic to the correct meaning of the word LIBERATE. +++Jesus liberates, Democrats disseminate and Republicans vacillate.+++
Also, why should I dress up my words in 'poetic-pretty' half truths? God's word is very direct and honest. The Emergent Church thinks it too 'brutal', so they water it down. When the Tribulation, (and/or Great Tribulation) or Day of The Lord comes to pass, I think our breath will be taken away at the sheer severity of it. Jesus is Meek and Mild: has no avarice, nor does He wish us to suffer under our own stupidity. But when He rules with His rod of iron, I assure you that He will Smash His Foes to pieces and grind them to powder. He will not ask our permission: He will not ask for a vote. HE WILL DO IT. We have been warned to "walk humbly with our God...". PGW
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/16/06 07:04:13 AM |
Age 52, VA |
Yes, you are correct. However if Christians were to form a government, what would it look like? Shouldnt we follow New Testament principles? In addition, we are no longer under the Law of Moses nor under the Nation of Israel. We are under a higher law, the Law of Jesus. Even the Nation of Israel fell into corruption and injustice in its redistribution of wealth. The book of Malachi addresses this. Paul was addressing Christians with God's preferred method of charity. Charity controlled by individuals. Capitalism at least allows individuals to be charitable even though many will not. Socialism does not even allow for it. Our government when formed recognized many Christian principles (even though many of the founding fathers were not born again). You will not find a provision for the redistribution of wealth in the constitution (providing for the general welfare does not mean redistribution of wealth). It was recognized that individuals were best suited to dispense charity and not government. That said, our government has de facto decayed into socialism and all of its inherent problems (I am sure you have read about the recent FEMA fiasco and all of the welfare fraud.) If you listen to many of our elected officials they dont have a clue what the constitution says and instead just do what they think is right in their own eyes. If left unchecked socialism will contribute to the collapse of this nation as it has already in many socialist nations. Europe is on the verge right now. Capitalism my not be perfect, nothing will be until King Jesus establishes his perfect kingdom. Until then we patiently wait and keep looking up.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/16/06 06:00:26 AM |
Age 52, VA |
Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut. ----Liberalism of the past is not the same as liberalism of today. Wasn't MLK a conservative Baptist Minister. Wasn't the abolishinists movement largely led by white christian preachers. If liberals could return to the liberalism of the past that would be a good thing.
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Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/15/06 08:32:17 PM |
Age 25, TN |
Isn't the verse you give Paul talking to fellow Christians, not to the government? Don't OT laws about tithing, leaving grain in the fields, the year of Jubilee, and others indicate that the laws involved redistribution of wealth then? Wasn't justice a huge concern of the prophets and Jesus, and isn't capitalism frequently unjust in who it rewards (just as socialism sometimes would be)? Pure capitalism may or may not be more just than pure socialism, but somewhere in the middle generally seems to be more just.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/15/06 11:10:44 AM |
Age 40, FL |
Sorry, I believe I was misunderstood. I agree with most of what Ralph Barker said.
Don't put me in the Age 78, OH category.
Forgive me, but I do understand Scripture. Please don't go around bashing people, saying they don't understand Scripture. As stated above, point out examples of Scriptural errors and make corrections if you have a problem with my theology (which I didn't post, BTW!) Don't just blast someone you disagree with, especially when you lack basic facts, like what, if anything they have said or believe. :-)
Bottom line, those who go and do things contrary to the Word of God, the Bible; I would consider to be in the "evil" column in my opinion, regardless of whether they raise the banner of being a liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, religious, or Christian.
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Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/15/06 11:09:48 AM |
Age 52, VA |
Here's a verse for you:
2 Corinthians 9:7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. Socialism is the government forcing one individual giving to another. The Biblical concept of sharing lies with the individual giver as her or she determines. Government has not role in charity. Certainly not forced charity. Yes I'm opposed even to government hand-outs sponsered by conservatives.
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Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/15/06 07:24:04 AM |
Age 52, NC |
As I have thought about it, the biggest fallacy for a Christian is to blame "liberals" for all of the error. There are "evil" conservatives as well.
A major important point is that the biggest lie is often closest to the truth. So the need for personal responsibility is translated into no need for those with money to care. Even more evil is how valid Kingdom truths about serving God was used to make the black slaves in the US feel it was their Christian duty to remain enslaved.
I will through in one more issue about the failure of conservative evangelicals to stand up for blacks against the tide of violent racism in the South. It was the "liberals" who did that. I applaud them for that and have personal regret and repent for these sins of my fellow white southerners..though I was but a toddler during the 1950's. I do remember watching the March on Washington in 1964 at age 11 as most southern conservatives and white evangelicals mumbled in concern. Go Liberals!.
Ray Hooker
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/15/06 06:07:48 AM |
Age 56, AR |
Taking the log out of one's eye before saying anything to a brother about their beam is certainly biblical, but you're taking that specific verse out of context. Read the whole chapter. Your being educated makes no difference in spiritual matters, and that's what this is. We can be influenced by God or the devil. I do know someone who is very close to me who has gone to the "other side", and has changed from a Christian man to a raving maniac when it comes to this government. My husband of 35 years is who I'm speaking about. He has been home for 2 years, not able to work, and watches as regular programing, CNN. He swears they are not biased but tell the whole truth. He says the President is evil and that all Christians are hippocrites. He believes all Christians (the religious right) voted for President Bush. As a result of this raving, we cannot speak about matters of importance, i.e., world issues, money issues, moral issues. It's all Bush's fault. No, I do not believe liberals are all wrong, but most. Conservatives are not all right. If we trust in man, we are cursed, according to God's word. I vote my conscience, knowing that God will take care of me if we do go bankrupt in this US of A. That's a promise. God will take care of his own. If he will take me home, then so be it. But if I have to face my Lord after having voted for homosexuality, abortion, pornography because it's viewed as art, I will be so ashamed.
Brenda
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Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/15/06 06:01:05 AM |
Age 52, VA |
Jesus affirmed the death penalty when he rebuked Peter for trying to rescue him by attempting to murder one of the guards when he said "..,he who lives by the sword will die by the sword" (i.e. if you commit murder you will be executed) Paul in the book of Acts at his trial before Festus affirmed the appropriateness of the death penalty when he said "If, however, I am guilty of doing anything deserving death, I do not refuse to die." I'm suspicious of our governments ability to dispense justice but the concept of executing murderers is still a valid Biblical principle.
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Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/14/06 10:02:06 PM |
Age 52, NC |
I do agree that this article is insulting and wrong in tone, as well as simplistic in its analysis. For example, there are number of born again Bible believing Christians who are very disturbed at the apparent deception or at least lack of judgement that got us into Iraq...though I do hope for the best for the nation and the people. So are they evil and liberal.. I share those concerns as the foundation of our government is based on our leaders telling us the truth.
Also we see the simplistic argument against socialism. The question is what is socialism? Do we want to get rid of medicare and medicaid? In reality this could be labelled socialized medicine, and perhaps some would want to do away with both. Otherwise, I think it is ridiculous to paint every government assistance program as "socialism" and therefore evil. I am probably as well or better educated that many arguing this topic, yet I prefer to debate the issues on the merits rather than by using labels.
I think the most disturbing aspect of the article is the way that whole groups of people with different points of view are called "evil" and "nuts". My question is how many "liberals" do you actually talk to that you see to know them very well? Do you really believe they all want failure? Do Christians not also hope that others will fail in their aspirations so that they can turn to the truth? It seems that you have forgotten what Jesus talked about with regard to take out the beam in your eye. Like Paul says, let your reasonableness be known to all men.
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Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/14/06 08:50:27 PM |
Age 25, TN |
For all of the rhetoric against socialism and how it's not Biblical, it's interesting that i've never even seen one verse from the Bible in support of this view on this website. Of course, one verse is hardly enough to prove anything, and socialism does have its faults, but why don't you at least try to support your "Biblical Worldview" with passages from the Bible?
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Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/14/06 08:12:14 PM |
Age 56, AR |
Dear 78 OH,
The Lord is Sovereign and I believe he will put whoever he wants to into office. His reasons aren't my reasons either. You see, my ways are different from the Lord's ways. I do believe liberals, named after Socialist's, are not evil, just mistaken. There's a wide chasm between liberal thought and conservative thought. Liberals care more about how they appear, doing good works not thinking about the consequences of the works. Example: we are a welfare state because liberals didn't want anyone to go hungry, so they made it to where everyone can have an equal piece of the pie. On the other hand, conservatives want people to work and earn their wages. You should know at your age, we don't know what hard work is now days. I don't believe in what humans say, I believe what God says. If a man doesn't work, he won't eat. That's the way it should be. You wouldn't have people saying the Spanish are doing the jobs no one else will do. All able bodies would be out there working for their living. And the Social Security everyone is going on about, the word says the family needs to take care of the parents or they're worse than an infidel. Our country wouldn't be going bankrupt if the churches were practicing the word. I will say, we don't do half of what Jesus told us to do. If you have anymore suggestions, tell us. You have more wisdom than we do.
Brenda
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Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/14/06 05:39:15 PM |
Age 45, FL |
Oh my gosh,you are brillant! I have been saying these very things,(with not as much eloquence)for years. I am just saddened to read the feedback that some Christians do not have the same view. Please Church wake up before it is too late! God calls us to be salt and light to the world. Light exposes the darkness. I am forwarding everyone I know to this webpage!
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Re: Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/14/06 05:14:58 PM |
Age 43, KY |
I am sorry to see that 78 OH and 40 FL don't understand the Bible, and it is a common misconception to say that Yeshua was the first "Flower Child", which is not supported by any scriptures. Sadly age doesn't always equate to wisdom or understanding of the scriptures, and while I truly appreciate 40 FL service in the army, that doesn't equate to a higher understand of the scriptures, either. There is so much that these two folks appear to misunderstand about the scriptures, espeically the anti-Semitism that appears in 78 OH's post, that I fear it would take more than a few pages to list and explain all the scriptures that say these folks are wrong about their assessment of the Christ's purpose and teachings, as well as were they are wrong about the Tanak, which is as much the word of YWHW as the Synoptic Gospels and the whole of the New Testament. The fact is, that in the New Testiment, we (Christians) are told to speak the truth about evil, when we see evil. We are also commanded not to be dual natured... can't be a liberal (or a part of any group that supports unChristian ideas or actions) and still say you are serving the Lord! The facts are that you folks can't support your views via scripture and we (Christians) can support our ideas via scriptures. If the Christ Yeshua was so against war, why to Mal. Dan. and Rev. tell of the 2nd coming of the Christ's as being the "Terrible Day of the Lord", and the campaign, not just one battle, but multiple battles as that is what a 'campaign' consist of, of the Christ to completely and utterly wipe out the anti-christ and all those that follow him. That doesn't sound like the "Make love not war" guy you 2 are speaking of. Rom. 13:1- " Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God." NKJV Which mean if the government prescribes the death penalty, and it doesn't go against YWHW's Law, then it is to be submitted to. Now, Christ didn't come to change the Mosiac Law to but to explain it. If we follow the prescribed punishment for crimes, from the Old Testiment, which has to be right least we say that YWHW makes mistakes, then the death penalty would be much expanded... adultry, rape, murder, etc. Many Christians, like yourselves have the misconception that Yeshua the Messiah, came and essentially made the Old Testiment obsolete, when the only main thing that the Christ brought was salvation and final sacrafice for all sins. Now YWHW will for give the sins of the believer, if he/she repents, but they still are accountable to the laws of the land. What it comes down to, is this... YHWH will for give those who truly profess Yeshua as the Son of YHWH and the Messiah, and repent of their sins, but there are still consequences to the actions we do here on earth, that must be atoned for. I suggest you fellas dust off your bibles and read it a few more times, as I don't think you quiet have the jest of it yet. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then usually it is a duck... thus if liberals walk with evil and do and support evil things, then they are evil, wouldn't you agree?
May God bless you and grant you His wisdom and discernment, to see the errors of your ways, so that you may repent of those things unpleasing to Him. Mark
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Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/14/06 01:45:38 PM |
Age 52, PA |
I totally concur with what you said in your articles about liberal/s. However, I 've become perplexed when reading that your wife and you were doing your morning devotional using Colson's book " How now shall we live?". As Christians, we must only use or read the Word of God, the Bible for our devotion and nothing else. What is wrong here? I do have this particular copy of Colson's book and I like it very much but it is not used for my devotion. Sorry if I misunderstand you. Just want to clarify.
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Re: Re: Liberals Are Evil, Wrong, and Nuts! (Part II)
| Posted On: 06/14/06 12:32:48 PM |
Age 40, FL |
He's correct.
If you have any problems with the points he made, provide evidence.
Simple enough....if you think that he's twisting Scripture, provide correction.
Sorry, life is sacred to me. Those who agree that the law of the land allows for capital punishment are not evil, as you say.
I have proudly served my country, as a US Army Officer, no less. And I'm not a warmonger. Iraq, in my opinion, was justified based upon the available preponderance of intelligence, most you'll never be privy to.
I'm sorry, those who serve the Lord Jesus Christ, are wholly committed to Him, are His servants, those who adhere to and follow His Teachings/Word are not truly evil.
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