Re: Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/10/06 08:16:53 AM |
Age 49, MN |
The problem with your example and the people you claim are doing more is that they are all trying to work their way into heaven. None of them believe in repentance or sin or any of the things the Bible makes clear is the root of the problem. Every Emergent/Emerging leader I have read believes that we can do enough to work our way to God and that is absolutely false. Many believe that "good" people of whatever religion system will go to heaven. This is why many (like Ken Silva and Slice of Laodecia) are pointing out the lies in their message.
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Re: Silva Feedback
| Posted On: 06/08/06 11:58:42 AM |
Age 38, MO |
I think then, these Emergent church leaders have a problem. What they say they believe is not matching up with what their saying in other venues. Mr. Kimballs church may have a belief statement that lines up with the Bible, but what he and brian mclaren, tony jones, etc. are saying in articles they write, interviews they do, new age books and authors they endorse is a whole other belief system. They are causing confusion among many who aren't paying attention because they seem to say something different depending on the audience. They are also aligning themselves with people who don't believe in the God of the Bible, and I'm not just talking about guilt by association as some like to cry foul about. I'm talking about endorsing their books, having quotes from these people in their own books, having these people speak at their churches or special events, etc. Why do this to their flocks that they are supposed to teach and protect? Why introduce them to teachings and people who teach it instead of telling them to flee from this? There is something so wrong here and I think some are starting to get it. I didn't see it at first either because frankly I wasn't looking until it got so blatant I had no choice. It's hard when those we have trusted to teach us the truth start straying and teaching something else, believe me I know, but It's got to be about what the Bible teaches and nothing else or we're going to get pulled from every direction with every new thing under the sun. kim
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Re: Re: Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/08/06 07:57:49 AM |
Age 45, NC |
Pastor Ken, I am surprised that you would react so strongly if the words of Christ had not hit you. My comment was only to bring Christ's own words directly to you and caution you reguarding twice calling a brother a fool. You may stand before God and he say you were right. He may hold you "in danger of Hell fire". In my heart I am offering a word of caution as all your writing sure communicates to me that you hold these brothers with a high level of contempt through your constant name calling. - A fellow pastor, and follower of Christ
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Re: Silva Feedback
| Posted On: 06/07/06 04:55:09 PM |
Age 50, NH |
The issue with the Emerging Church Movement is quite simple. It had a beginning before there were so many "diverse" parts of this rebellion against the Biblical authority. Kimball was a part of the beginning and knew fully well people like his friends Doug Pagitt and Tony Jones are neo-orthodox (at best) in their view of the Bible. Pagitt himself is an inclusivist. When the movement you align yourself with begins with an improper view of Scripture and openly denies Reformed theology then you are with a bad tree no matter how good you may personally think you are. And our Lord most clearly said: "a bad tree cannot bear good fruit" (Matthew 7:18). One is welcome to equivocate however one wishes, but if anyone has ears to hear they will know what the Spirit has just said.
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Re: Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/07/06 12:48:38 PM |
Age 42, NC |
Actualy, it is the little foxes that spoil the vines. See we pull out all the stops to prevent the bulldozers from tearing down our home but we allow the termites to feast until our house falls in on itself. Contrary to popular belief, when it comes to doctrine; biblical authority, inspiration, and inerrancy; and HOLY living we DO need to guard these with the same zeal as we guard the truths of salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, by Jesus Christ alone. We also need to disecern between "doctrines" and traditions of men.
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Let's all be loving
| Posted On: 06/07/06 11:32:58 AM |
Age 39, TX |
Pastor Silva, I love you brother. I know you are sincere and work very hard at Apprising. I know that being a pastor is one of the hardest jobs in the world. Although we disagree quite a bit on the emergent church, you do not deserve the ugly feedback. I want all of us to speak on these forums as if we were in a room at church talking with each other. That is my test for my posts and I hope we can keep working hard for the faith. - Darren
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Silva Feedback
| Posted On: 06/07/06 11:28:58 AM |
Age 39, TX |
Pastor Silva does his research and it is obvious he is sincere. The reason for some of his negative feedback is because he generalizes the emergent church. Look at Dan Kimballs church faith statement (http://vintagechurch.org/about.php) and you will see what they believe. They may not go into whether you should or should not speak in tongues, but the essentials of the Christian faith are there. He should call out statements by certain people in the movement for the statements they make. Those folks make up a small minority in the emergent movement. The truth and authority of the Bible and salvation in Christ alone is affirmed by almost every church that calls themselves emergent. Check out http://www.christianassociates.org/ and you will see a missions organization that is fully orthodox and fully emergent.
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Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 06:50:22 PM |
Age 38, MO |
The article was very informative, and it upsets me to see the comments from those who don't really understand what the Emergent church is teaching. You need to do your homework as mr. silva has done, and many more are starting to do. We are not fussing over small things here. These Emergent church leaders believe there are other ways to be saved besides belief in Jesus Christ. They participate in rituals that have been taken from other religions that don't believe that Jesus is the son of God or even that there is only one God. That's just a few of the problems. Is that enough of a doctrine difference for you? A lot of the commenters about this article think we are being divisive over the small stuff. I tell you, not believeing Jesus is the ONLY way is not small and is only divisive because we won't go along with their new methods. We are not the ones who are adding new things that the Bible does not advocate, giving people more and more rituals to do that the Bible says stay away from, and telling people there is more things they should be doing to get close to God. The Emergent church is actually the one making God's word more complicated and steeped in works which is confusing many and doing the dividing. God is not hiding anything. He has not revealed something to some Christians and not others. The Truth is known. Jesus said the mystery has been revealed. He is it. I will gladly say out loud, I know the Truth, I will tell it gladly to anyone who wants to know. It's not a secret folks. The Truth can be known and accepted by those who are willing. God is not a God of chaos and confusion, but these new movements are. Thank you for letting me post. kim
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Re: Re: Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 06:02:15 PM |
Age 57, VA |
Dear Ken, "Remember the words that were spoken beforehand by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ that they were saying to you,"in the last time there shall be mockers, following after their own lusts." THESE ARE THE ONES WHO CAUSE DIVISIONS, wordly minded, devoid of the Spirit. But you, Ken, building yourself up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; keep yourself in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life. And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh. And to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy, to the only God our SAvior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen Keep fighting the good Fight, Pastor Ken! The violent take it by force.
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Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 03:09:09 PM |
Age 23, WA |
First of all, I was wondering why the article was named a "conversation" when I saw no such conversation in it? It seems to me that Mr Silva has made a commentary sans conversation. Second, I read the article Dan Kimball wrote, and other than the issue of evolution, I see no problem with what he is saying. Over sound doctrine I would argue, and the Nicene Creed lays out a fairly firm foundation. But as previous bloggers have pointed out Romans 14, Christ calls us to unity in the body, and not division over smaller matters. God has the power to change the heart and cleanse us from all unrighteousness, that power was never given to us. And Mr. Silva, I would recommend admonishing another brother in the grace of Christ, and not with the tongue of a viper. Your words smacked of superiority and cynisism.
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Re: Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 02:33:43 PM |
Age 50, NH |
My such a stern rebuke. Might I point out a misconception. You quote: "whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause." However, I have just cause to be angry with one of the leaders of the neo-liberal cult of the Emergent Church that began as a rebellion against the final authority of the Bible and is warping young minds unable to see through their lies.
Then you say: "according to Jesus." There we are in agreement, because in the same context Jesus said to false religious leaders of His day: "You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?" (Matthew 23:17) So if I were you I might spend some time repenting for attacking one of Christ's pastors before He holds you to your own standard: "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (Matthew 7:2) Pastor Ken Silva
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Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 12:46:15 PM |
Age 56, AR |
I read Kimball's blogpage. He does seem nice. You're right though, it doesn't matter how nice a person seems, the devil appears as an angel of light, and we need to be discerning. It seems like Kimball is very passive in his beliefs. He needs to stand firm on doctrines of the faith. He's a little wishy washy. I can see him being all inclusive of other beliefs.
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Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 10:44:12 AM |
Age 43, KY |
Very Good article Ken! The Emergent Church is just part of what is to come. Remember the Path is long and narrow, and Yeshua tells us that Many will say, "Lord, Lord.", and He will say depart from Me, for I you never knew Me! Also remember, that it isn't our job to call or draw people to the Messiah Yeshua, but YHWH's, and it is Yeshua's job to save them. Our commission is to teach YWHW's Word which is Truth, and witness to His marvelous works in our lives. Just as in the Old Testament, YHWH goes before us, fighting the tuff battles, and our task is to come in and do the mop-up operations. The Emergent Church and several other pretenders to Christianity, mix a little truth (Yeshua was and is Messiah) with a lot of false teachings to sell their lies.
Anyway, great job Ken. Thanks for keeping us up to speed on the Emergent church.
Sincerely,
Mark
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Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 09:50:58 AM |
Age 39, TX |
Pastor Silva called this article a conversation. I am curious if he called him a fool or called his beliefs agnostic or a neo-liberal cult or corrupt as he does in the article. If he means to fulfill Christs mission, by causing division as stated in the last sentence, then that ought to do it. He might have missed the point of Kimballs blog in that we should not divide over minor issues. There are people who would say if you do not read the King James Version, you are not reading the Bible. Is that the division Jesus was talking about? Authority of Scripture, Salvation in Christ Alone, The Trinity. I will die on those hills, but the hill of the King James Version and Tongues and tattoos are not hills to die on.- Darren
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Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 08:24:26 AM |
Age 33, IL |
It saddens me to read articles such as this. Dan Kimball and other Emerging Church leaders are not neo-liberals. They are a group of people trying to bring back the truth of the Gospels that has been lost in the legalism and works based righteousness of the modern church. Most of the people I know who are truly part of the Emerging Church movement I living Biblical Christianity to a much higher degree than those who are railing against them. I know people don't like to see their towers fall, but when God is the one toppling the towers they better get out of the way. Ken Silva speaks proudly about his involvement with the Slice of Laodicea blog. This blog is a legalistic work of Satan to divide his church.
Yes, sound doctrine is important, but unsound legalism brought on by unsupported doctrine is not. Unfortunately, there are too many who do think their doctrine is the only doctrine. That is why we have church after church and denomination and after denomination that thinks they are the only ones who actually translate the Bible correctly. They should all read Romans 14, where Paul (and Jesus) are telling people to GET OVER IT.
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Re: My Conversation with Emergent Church Leader Dan Kimball
| Posted On: 06/06/06 05:57:31 AM |
Age 45, NC |
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Matt 5:22
I'd be careful if I were you Mr. Silva. Your contempt flows very eaily from your pen and according to Jesus today you have added at least 2 counts that you will have to anwer for.
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