Re: Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 07/03/06 09:48:32 AM |
Age 51, PA |
Don't expect to change the WORLD. Do you remember that it is written that Jesus said FEW will find it? Where is it written that we are to change the world with the Truth of Jesus Christ? The fact is that the world HATES us and always will. Jesus said to him who has ears, let HIM hear. 1 Corinthians 1:18 says: For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are BEING saved it is the power of God. Keep up the good work soldier for remember too: We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 2Corinthians 4:8-10 The church is very small and always will be regardless of the many in mega churches who CLAIM Christ. it is also written: Matthew 7:22-23 MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!
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Re: Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 07/03/06 09:38:09 AM |
Age 51, PA |
BRAVO!! Spoken like a TRUE believer!
We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 2Corinthians 4:8-10
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 06/03/06 03:18:49 PM |
Age 60, IL |
Hi,
I agree with your article. I rarely hear any one say we are in a Spiritual battle. Evil will ultimately lose. It is fortold in the Bible. I believe the call to spiritual warfare has already come...due to the decline and impending fall of Western civilation and possiblly America too.
"In these evil dark and final days the SPIRIT will make a way...to call ALL of Christ's own back to the fold...You don't need the gift of profesy to see what is to come...before the end the call will ring out through the world" original song copyrighted by me. Not everyone will be saved and even the elect may/will be decieved in the end days.
To me Spiritual warfare requires enduring, striving and most of all...not wait any longer
Bob Moe
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/21/06 08:17:11 AM |
Age 56, AR |
This article speaks to me personally. I have to admit when I start something I ususally don't finish it. Or I won't stand up when something needs to be dealt with that's against God. Oh yes, I will go to a brother that's in sin and try to get him to come back to the Lord. When it comes to standing alone, that's becomes a problem for me. Let me tell you about a specific issue that's going on in our neightborhood right now, and has been going on since I can remember. I'm sure many of you have the same issue in your living area. There is a pornographic Video store not too far from here. They have a back room, and we know what's in the back room. I want to do something to have them shut down because selling or renting pornography is illegal. Wow, that is way out there to most people. I work in a Prosecutor's office and it's just not something that's brought up in today's society. Even though we have rapes and incest that is rampant in our own towns, no matter how clean everyone thinks they are. They're not!! It's everywhere. If it's hard to get someone in church to go with you to speak with a sinning brother, how much harder is it to get them to take a stand against something that's wrong, but acceptable? If we don't go there or look at the stuff, it's no problem. We might complain about it but we wink at it, and so agree with their sin. God help us!! What are we doing?
Brenda
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/19/06 09:18:10 AM |
Age 57, VA |
I believe we are not winning because the target is not to win the world but rather, to go into all the world and preach the Gospel, making disciples..." When I read that many Pastors honestly believe that MANY in their congregations are not even saved, I understand it as proof of Jesus' words that "the way is narrow and few find it." I have begun to believe that so many who say they are saved, aren't. So, we look at all the numbers who do say they are saved and we wonder why we aren't making a bigger impact on the world? Not everyone who calls themselves a Christian has ever truly counted the cost nor do they have a servant's heart, nor would they think of laying down their lives for another or even Jesus, nor would they pick up their Cross and follow Him. I don't look to win cultural wars. I leave that to people like Rick Warren. I look to make disciples myself and to keep myself unspotted by the world. I don't expect the masses that call themselves "Christians and say Lord, Lord" to do these things. Maybe all this seems pessimistic to some, but I just don't even read that there is going to be a great revival. I do read about a great falling away. Therefore, I try to keep my own eyes on Jesus, follow Him, and DO MY PART to help others into this GREAT SAlVATION, teaching others to do the same, without expecting the Church to change the WORLD. I only expect the Church to change HEARTS, one at a time. Jesus will be the one to come back and win the cultural wars and change the world. I believe there are those who are about their Father's business, who have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying. I believe they suffer for it. I believe they wonder, as the author does, "why does it seem that so few others seem to get it? Why do so few seem to care about the final abode of others?" "The way is narrow and few find it" We wish it was wider! Like Jesus, we long for all to be saved and come into the kingdom, but all will not! It can indeed be very "worrisome" ( a word some seem to have coined)if I don't look at it this way! I believe that many could hold bible studies in their homes, find creative ways to reach the lost personally in their daily lives. But I don't see many doing it. The bible teaches that no soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted Him as a soldier. And also if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not win the prize unless he competes according to the rules. Many today are too entangled in the affairs of life to die to self and please the Lord and many are also unwilling to follow the rules. These two things can make a Christian "dead in the water."
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 07:05:26 PM |
Age 59, TN |
At 5 am several mornings ago I read from old ancient documents that declared openly the revelation that "Jesus is God". This document written between 60 and 70 AD has been translated from ancient greek texts. They are not hidden in basement libraries but are on my cluttered desk! At 5:55 AM I start my morning walk to commune with God and suddenly stop look up to heaven and think out loud, "Lord, we've lost another battle. Dan Brown and Tom Hanks have turned the world upside down and we are left picking up the debris inorder to defend Christ's divinity. Hollywood upstaged us with Jesus Christ Superstar, Godspell, The Last Temptation, The Passion and now The Davinci Code. Lord, I want to turn the world upside down instead of watching Hollywood." Out loud I said "Jesus is God" and repeated it and suddenly the presence of the Lord overwhelmed me and an old overweight man took off running repeating the phrase "Jesus is God" untill I was throughly exhausted but spiritually refilled with his presence. I went to work with renewed vigor. I got in the face of the Jehovah's Witness I have been witnessing to for the past 148 days and said "Jesus is God" and for 10 minutes we went around and around discussing the divinity of Christ. I fully intend to turn his world upside down with the truth that Jesus is God, the son of the heavenly father. I have a mission from God to hinder and frustrate his efforts to go door to door with his lies about Jesus. I expect to establish a pattern of victory as I do my small part to turn my world upside down. "Lord, your Holy Spirit has come upon me. Empower me to be a fruitful witness for you. Cause his ear to hear what the Spirit is saying."
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 02:01:19 PM |
Age 34, ID |
Dear Mr. Barker, I enjoyed this article and think you are correct. I wanted to think out loud here to get your thoughts.
Our pattern of defeat comes from fighting the wrong fight. We are preoccupied with the Da Vinci Code right now. Yes its blasphemous, yes its slanderous, and no I wont contribute to the pocket books of Tom Hanks et. al. by going to see it. However, it has caused an uproar in the Christian community, and basically were in a shouting match with pagans. Ian McClellan recently said the bible should have a fiction disclaimer. What I would say is who cares what Gandalf says, his opinion is meaningless and doesnt contribute to the salvation or damnation of anyone. He is a gay man, obviously upset that the Christian community looks down on both his lifestyle and his work and he is offended, so he lashes back. SO WHAT, he and every other charlatan in Hollywood dont matter an iota to anything, yet we bicker back and forth. The real enemy is the principalities of this world, and (political correctness be darned) Islam an obvious creation of Satan himself. So we ignore the real threat and engage in meaningless battles with the secularists. Heres what I think. I think a lot of Christians are seeing the tide turn against them just like the bible says it will in the end times. The bible says that this slippery slope cannot be climbed again, meaning its all down hill from here. That fatalistic knowledge doesnt inspire one to change the world because its seen as a battle that can only be won when Jesus wins it. I dont want that to sound like apostasy or calling for an end to missionary service. In fact Jesus told us that His return would happen when the full number of gentiles is brought into the Church. We dont know who will bring that last convert into the kingdom so we each have to be faithful in witnessing when Jesus puts that task in front of us. Have you ever been on the edge of a sneeze? Sometimes it comes and sometimes it doesnt. The church right now is in that pre-sneeze, tilt your head back, close your eyes, and open your mouth stage of a sneeze. Jesus return could come right now or it might not. The problem is that the church has been on the edge of the sneeze for a while now, patiently waiting for the sneeze (Jesus return) to happen. But the sneeze feeling doesnt go away either, so were stuck on the edge unable to get ourselves motivated to fight. Have you ever tried to do anything while waiting for a sneeze? Its nearly impossible.
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 12:31:55 PM |
Age 51, NY |
Our defeat is directly linked to the absence of leadership. Our leaders will not risk their elevated lifestyle to confront "popular" false sheherds and "popular" false teachers. Next, the clear directions given in Revelations 2 & 3 on how to remedy a local fellowship's shortcomings are ignored. (These letters are written first to the 'angels" or messangers of the churches mentioned). Instead of believing that these examples are cited so we can match up our fellowship, our leadership places these church conditions into a church age escatology that allows them to propose a one size fits all denominational solution to the church's ills. Let's face it, most of our pastors would rather be on radio, TV or the internet than visit the widows and orphans in their affliction. (If you have a pastor who visits his congregation and actually disciples people, he is a rare gem worthy of double honor!) By and large our church leadership loves the limelight, minimizes personal contact and define their ministry by budgets and busyness and not by a servants heart. They have not entered the good fight for the faith, but stand on the sidelines and offer occassional commentary for their listening audience.
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 12:19:31 PM |
Age 36, AK |
My friend Dr. Waylan Owens was preaching this 10 years ago and we took it to heart. I firmly agree and see that this is the problem that plagues Christianity as a whole. The fact that I am the first to feedback is a tell as well. We avoid pain 24 hours out of the day and are constantly bombarded with the attitude that we deserve to live the easy life. Then reality hits and we take the road most traveled. You have nailed the proverbial coffin shut with your article and yet most professing Christians will find (as you pointed out) some way of explaining away your observations. I pray you continue to profess this truth and that God will continue to use you. I responded to another article about home schooling and you summed up my point much better than I did. If we live following, living and doing the will of God, He will do His part as well. Thank you again.
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 12:13:50 PM |
Age 73, TX |
Your article of Thursday, May 18, hit my hot button for the second time. I am a Christian, and a church goer for some time now but for a good number of years I've been aware of the "this is what we do in church" mentality. I have wanted to say, loud and clear, get up out of your pews and go into the public square where more people are needing help. I agree that just quoting a scripture will take care of all issues. A changed heart, ala salvation, is called for. In the meantime, right now, real need help is what is needed. When done in loving ways, it can lead up to the real solution. Even then, people are going to have to do their part. Remember, God helps the birds but He doesn't drop the worms into the birds nest for the baby birds.
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 11:28:56 AM |
Age 57, NM |
Doesn't the Scripture say that the enemy will wear down the saints, and doesn't God's Word also say that we will be overcome? We don't believe this? It won't do us any good to pray for or fight against the will of the Lord, but, as for me, I do and will pray for those I love to come into the Lord's Kingdom before His soon return. My prayer is that which the Lord prayed in the Book of John before His crucifixion. May we all have courage and our hearts not grow cold!
In Christ,
Sharon H.
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 07:43:35 AM |
Age 53, MN |
EXCELLENT and well-thought through. I can't help but also question whether psychology hasn't also played an important role in this. When we have a problem, too often we either think or are told from others to consider getting counselling, not from our pastors with a Biblical point-of-view but from someone outside the faith and in the world. Add to that is the increased role of psychotropic drugs for depression, anxiety, etc. Furthermore, our culture also has become an "instant" one. For example, television and movies have given us the delusion that problems can be resolved within a couple of hours or days at least. Then when discouragement sets in we question why it's taken so long. No doubt there are numerous additional other reasons as well. Thank you for addressing this!
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Re: Christians and Their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 06:21:27 AM |
Age 37, MN |
I agree with Mr. Barker that Orthodox Christianity is loosing the culture wars. So much of Christianity has forgotten the Church Militant, and instead has become a Casper Milqutoast, that even though they dont take the rest of the Bible seriously, take Jesus' command to turn the other cheek into overkill. They think that it is we should just shut up and take everything and not punish them, show them their sin, show how they are going against God, after all "love is God." and "Christians shoudl be nice and talking about sin isn't" "all people go to heaven anyway so it doesn't matter" ... Jesus never intended people to be doormats, but he was wanting to see people get away from the pattern of revenge that was (is) prevelant in the middle east.
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Christians and their Pattern of Defeat
| Posted On: 05/18/06 05:05:02 AM |
Age 61, PA |
Yes, but so often I do not know the right thing to do.
Then when I look back I see I did the wrong thing.
"Too soon old;too late smart."
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