Re: Re: Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 05/09/06 04:42:59 AM |
Age 44, UK |
I'm broadly in agreement with you Todd, but it depends on WHO is being named as wolves! If some of the supposed 'wolves' are in fact brothers (here's where the potential for disagreement comes in), then I would want to challenge my brother before naming and marking him.
For example, I have previously read very strong and condemning articles written by those holding to a cessationist theology about brothers who do not hold to a cessationist view, all in a context of naming wolves! In my view, the writers of these articles were simply wrong in their approach.
This whole debate takes on real meaning when we know which 'wolves' are being referred to!
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/28/06 06:20:37 AM |
Age 56, AR |
I Corinthians 5 & 6 clearly says the we are to purge the leaven out, that we may be a new lump. We are unleavened. We are sanctified. We are in the world but not of it. Paul says we are not to company with fornicators, the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters, for if we do we may be taken out of the world. We're not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, covetous, idolater, railer, drunkard, or an extortioner: with such an one, no, not to eat. God judges them that are outside, we judge those within. Put away from among you that wicked person. A professing brother of mine is living with a woman, who I don't believe is born again. We are good friends. He, his wife and children were dear friends. His wife has died and he has taken up with this woman. The real problem is he brings her to church and is in service in Sunday School. I went to him myself several times. I finally got a sister to go with me because he would not listen. I tried to get 2 other men to go first but they would not. Still he does not move. I went to the Pastor, and he is supposedly taking care of it. I havent' seen anything happen yet. I told the Pastor if he is allowed to stay here and live in sin publicly in church, the church will suffer. I have prayed about this, and cried many times. It's not a pleasant thing to do. It's a very hard task, but according to God's word needs to be done. And so there are many things God tells us to do that are not pleasant, but must for his sake and the sake of the sanctity of the church.
Brenda
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Re: Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/27/06 05:57:49 PM |
Age 53, NY |
Not the point,
Are certain high profile Charismatics lying, hypocrital, in it for the money false teachers?
Expose them and don't get side tracked.
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Re: Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/27/06 03:24:44 PM |
Age 43, TX |
True, a heretic is one who disagrees with (and/or) teaches a doctrine that is an esssential to the Christian faith and not one who disagrees with us on a non-essential (see Rom. 15).
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Re: Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/27/06 03:22:43 PM |
Age 43, TX |
Thank you brother. Yes, Paul names (marks) 8 people by name in 4 chapters in 2 Timothy - 2 per chapter. See whole article at http://www.safeguardyoursoul.com/html/naming_names.html or better yet, this is but one chapter in the new book title Deceivers & False Prophets Among us which can be seen on www.SafeGuardYourSoul.com
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Re: Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/27/06 02:47:17 PM |
Age 43, TX |
Thank you for your response. In order to "rightly divide the word of truth" let's both keep studying His Word so that we can truly rightly divide and not blurr different topics and emphasis. Pray for me in this matter too please because i only wish to please Him as I am sure you do too brother. I want to suggest that you get a copy of Deciever's & False Prophets Among Us Vol. I, which can be found at www.SafeGuardYourSoul.com . This should give you a thorough Bible knowledge concerning this vitally important subject. Matthew 18:15-17 speaks of going to the offending brother...."Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother..." (Matt. 18:15-17) This is dealing a conflict between 2 individual brothers in Christ and not the treatment of wolves (unsaved) in sheep's clothing who are drawing away the disciples of Jesus and devouring them (Acts 20:27-32) Peter temporarily became a wolf by teaching falsehood and Paul directly confronted him in PUBLIC for his sin (see Gal. 2). "0Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." (1 Tim. 5:20) We are to "mark them" who teach false "doctrine" and nothing is said in this text about approaching wolves who are leading people astray in private. Todd T. www.SafeGuardYourSoul.com
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/27/06 09:51:25 AM |
Age 52, TX |
very good and timely article. we have been dealing with this very problem in our circle of believers. thank you for a wise and thoughtful article.God help our sick churches. cathy hopson
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/27/06 05:20:21 AM |
Age 44, UK |
Frankly, where are these articles going and what is their purpose? I have always believed that if I have a problem with my brother, then I need to go to him FIRST and try and resolve the matter. In my view, naming and marking people is not a first step, but a third or fourth step after all other avenues have been attempted.
I am also very aware of Jesus' admonition to remove the plank from my own eye before turning my attention to the speck in my brother's eye. We need to consider that pointing out the theological errors in others, often helps us to avoid and ignore areas of our own lives that need to come into line with God's purposes.
May the Lord grant wisdom to all of us in these things.
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/27/06 03:08:34 AM |
Age 43, KY |
Todd, I agree that YHWH's truth should be taught at all times, and that those teaching falsehoods should be identified, but are you truly ready to teach the Truth? So many pastors, ministers, teachers and Christian Clergy in general profess to teach the truth, yet most fall way short. For instant: Do you celebrate Christmas and/or Easter? Do you have a "Good Friday" service? Do you teach Yeshua (Jesus) is the reason for these seasons? Do you refer to Yeshua as "Jesus Christ"? If you say yes to any of this, you are not teaching the truth. I see Christian leaders getting all worked up becaue the secular world is taking "Christ" out of Christmas and/or Easter, when the truth of the matter is, He was never there to begin with, as they are Pagan festivals with a Christian label slapped on them, to appease the pagans and fill the coffers of the merchants! "Good Friday", besides being another man-made tradition, can't be truth, or scripture is wrong, as you can't squeeze 3 days out the time period between Friday at sun set and Sunday at dawn. Of course if you don't believe the Bible is the infallible, inspired word of YHWH, then I suppose you might over look it. What about referring to Yeshua as "Jesus Christ", well that too is grammatically wrong. "Christ is not Yeshua's last name... it is His title, therefore if you are going to teach truth, you must stop referring to Him as "Jesus Christ" and go with, if you must use the butchered English translation of Yeshua the Messiah's name, "Jesus the Christ" or "Christ Jesus", if you intend to teach the truth. Of course if you really want to teach nothing but the truth, why use the English translation of His name at all, as 'Yeshua' isn't hard to say at all, and it is the most accurate - truthful way to refer to the Messiah. Am I being knit-picky? Yes. But I want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, when it comes to YHWH's word being taught... how about you? So if you fully intend to name names, and teach the truth according to Scripture and not the "Point of view" teachings, so many Christian clergy are involved in, then I stand behind your quest, 100%, but you are out to name names, and not follow through with exposing all the lies and false teachings present in the Christian community today, then peddle your divisionism, to someone else.
May you go with YHWH, and He bless you with the truth of His word and the courage and ability to speak it plainly, for all to hear.
Sincerely,
Mark
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/27/06 12:19:47 AM |
Age 35, TX |
I don't take issue at all with naming names. I fully agree with the author's thesis; it is clearly Biblical and I think he has presented his case well in that regard. Well done! I do think, however, that too many people "naming names" are often making some very ambiguous and broad-brushed strokes these days... with no qualifying arguments whatsoever. They need to be called to an account as well! We must be extremely careful in this area as responsible stewards of God's Word. The Apostle Paul didn't just name names. He carefully revealed the errors of the men he identified and they were always clear departures from fundamental doctrines of the faith. So, two things in conclusion:
1.) It is wholly irresponsible to "name names" -- identifying someone as a heretic -- without making a sound, clear-cut case for the error in question. We need to be detail specific and fully prepared to lay out our case from the Word of God. If we fail in this regard the only thing we have done is slander a brother or sister, discredited someone and possibly caused irreparable or at least long-term damage to a ministry, and humiliated the Body of Christ in the eyes of the world. 2.) We need to carefully distinguish between heresy (departures from fundamental doctrines of the faith) and mere errors or cinematic embellishments on film (ex. the Passion of the Christ) that we can agree to disagree on because the essentials aren't in question. I am of the opinion that the words "heresy" and "heretic" are being thrown around very irresponsibly these days. Let's be fair on both sides of the issue: There seems to be just as big a crowd in the Body of Christ these days waiting to see another preacher get labeled "heretic" and publically crucified as there are those among us who are ready to have their ears tickled with heresy or error. Paul's command to "study and show ourselves approved that we may straightly cut the Word" (2 Ti. 2:15) applies just as much to those seeking to correct error as it does to the teachers who made it to begin with. (Ga. 6:1-2) Can I get an, "Amen?"
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/26/06 12:10:45 PM |
Age 53, NY |
This article reminds me of a preacher I heard in Colorado commenting on when Jesus cleaned out the Temple of money changers. As I remember it went something like this, "I know you guys need to make a living, and I am about to do something that you probably won't understand or like so please don't get upset with me for I really really have to do it and I don't want you to be surprised when I do and think I don't love you because I do." Brother get to the point and do what Scripture tells you to do.
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/26/06 11:17:54 AM |
Age 17, CA |
I don't know if you already mentioned this or not, but even Paul names names in 1 Timothy 1:20. Paul not only warns Timothy of deceivers, but he even gives him an example. I don't know if this relates or not, I read your title and that immediately came to mind.
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/26/06 07:17:51 AM |
Age 49, NY |
We also need to be careful that we are not evaluating and exposing people whom we happen to disagree with because of a doctrine we don't happen to hold to. For instance, if we are cessasionists, do we accuse Charismatics of false teaching if they hold to the gifts of the Spirit being valid for today?
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Re: Naming Names Is it Biblical? (Part 2 of 3)
| Posted On: 04/25/06 05:18:41 PM |
Age 56, AR |
Todd,
Ditto, ditto, ditto!!!
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