Re: Teachers of Mysticism: Richard Foster
| Posted On: 04/23/06 05:45:30 AM |
Age 59, NC |
As our world becomes more complicated and precarious I sense more and more people wanting a closer experience with God. Churches are seeking more worshipful experiences. Christ does live in Christians but do we really have access to the "face" of God, the presence of God if we haven't walked the path to the Holy of Holies? How can a person go into God's presence through any meditative exercise without dealing with sin issues, offering sacrifices of praise, and worshipping Him? From my experience, we can't.
Thank you for your input.
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Re: Re: Re: Teachers of Mysticism: Richard Foster
| Posted On: 04/15/06 05:01:29 AM |
Age 57, VA |
I agree. It is really amazes me that those opposed to what you write deduce that anyone who agrees with you must be void of emotion, passion, and thus rejects all "experiences" with the Lord. They fail to understand that we have many experiences and times of great passion and emotion with the Lord. The only difference is we try to be sure what we are experiencing and what we are so emotional about lines up with Scripture before we accept it is from the Lord or unto the Lord. Among other things, like weeping before the Lord, praising Him for who He is, I clap my hands and dance before the Lord with great emotion, BUT I meditate only on the Word of God and his ways and purposes. I will NOT dabble in Eastern mysticism or eastern practices or "liturgical practices of old." I find it very arrogant of believers to discard and disregard the very TRUTHS the Body of Christ was given in the Reformation. Going back and embracing the very prayer techniques and other practices that the Body of Chirst was set free from is unbelievable. Where are peoples heads? The naysayers seem to think nobody knows anything and nothing is written in granite. It all boils down to "what ever you think, whatever you feel, and if you experienced it, it had to be God." Well, some of us are just not that gullible. We used to be, but thank God,we have been set free from the idea that "anything goes." Now we have found the WORDS OF LIFE, THE WORD OF GOD, THE BIBLE, and it has become our plumbline by which we judge everything. It is our guide, not what we feel, you feel, they feel. It is all about what is written.
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Re: Re: Teachers of Mysticism: Richard Foster
| Posted On: 04/14/06 05:44:20 PM |
Age 50, NH |
Although I am currently with the SBC I'm not familiar with DSLA if you want to send me the link at apprising@adelphia.net I will be glad to examine it for you. Pastor Ken Silva
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Re: Re: Teachers of Mysticism: Richard Foster
| Posted On: 04/14/06 02:49:47 PM |
Age 50, NH |
I dont think you consciously meant to insult my scholarship, but in effect this is what you have done by your implication that I have not read these passages in context from these books that are in my personal library. For your possible edification I wish you to know that I have an aversion to quoting other peoples quotes from a book, instead laying out finances from my own resources to acquire said books to study them in context. It is only on rare occasions, and then only with researchers I personally know have the utmost commitment to scholastic integrity, that I will quote a source within a source. I say all that to say this: You are correct that Foster offers explanations for his conclusions in subsequent chapters. I never said that he doesnt. What I am pointing out is that his explanations are tried and found wanting, the majority being simply circular arguments ending with the point he begins with. It is Fosters scholarship you should be wary of and not mine, though I welcome anyone to test my work. In fact one of the greatest joys I have each week as pastor of a small church that meets in a members home is that invariably as I reference a text from the Bible I immediately hear the sound of each of them turning to it in their own Bibles. As far as your comment re. logic, etc., I have pointed out before that I am not a cessationist and I believe in experience with God, but experience is subjective and must always be tested by the objective Truth in Gods Word. And as far as the "others" you mention that are "grounded in the faith," then let them acknowledge I have spoken in the Spirit. The contemplative spirituality movement reverses the whole process of seeking God's voice and it will always lead them to the same place: universalism. What is so often missed in this discussion is that people like me are not advocating a dull and dry intellectualism in regard to our walk with Christ. As a matter of fact I myself write Christian songs and music that have much emotion, but they are based in Scripture. Now the mystics will quickly tell you (and correctly) that God is beyond our mere human comprehension. However, the Lord decided to create us as propositional beings (with reasoning ability) who can communicate with words that have real meaning. As such God then inspired a Book (the Bible) where He condescended to explain to us even though we had rebelled against Him what we needed to know to come into a relationship with Him. Therefore, since we are helpless to know Him otherwise (mysticism included) God would have to speak to us in words we can understand and that have fixed meanings. These we refer to as logical conclusions and we know God is not the author of confusion. We can further prove that God Himself is orderly and logical because laws He created e.g. gravity work uniformly over the entire planet and are fixed. In other words things dont suddenly fly into the air, and so the confused Zen Buddhist who denies logic is thankful gravity holds him to the earth even in Tibet. You are welcome to follow my more in depth work on contemplative spirituality at www.apprising.org and/or to contact me personally for additional information. However, I must tell you in the Lord that this so-called Christian mysticism is a very dangerous deception rooted in what I call the Ecumenical Church Of Deceit.
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Re: Re: Teachers of Mysticism: Richard Foster
| Posted On: 04/14/06 12:34:21 PM |
Age 56, AR |
Dear Alabama,
What do you mean by 'confrontational attitudes' and 'spiritual experiences'? I would like to have the information so I can keep an eye out for it in our church. It seems to creep in so unnoticed.
Thanks,
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Re: Teachers of Mysticism: Richard Foster
| Posted On: 04/13/06 02:53:57 PM |
Age 31, AL |
I don't know if this is technically "feedback", but I'm looking for help.
My Southern Baptist Church is beginning to embrace the emergent philosophies decribed in the article. It is funneling in through our youth program and I am seeing an increasing obsession with "spiritual experiences" and ritualitic symbology in our church. There also seems to be what can only be called a "confrontational attitude" developing in our youth. It as if they have something, that we (I'm in my early thirties) don't get.
Recently, the youth announced that they would be attending a DSLA conference this summer. I perused their website and suspect that they are expousing emergent church/convergent prayer philosophies. Does anyone have any direct evidence of this connection?
Thank you.
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Re: Teachers of Mysticism: Richard Foster
| Posted On: 04/13/06 12:56:35 PM |
Age 52, MS |
In reading this article, I am wondering if others have read the books mentioned? I read the passages quoted and then went to the book itself for explanation...the same concerns the writer of this article had are listed and covered in the next paragraphs. We must be careful to not take others opionions without researching them ourselves. Many can be only logical in our approach to God...others are because of the way we are made, approach the same issues with logic and emotions. I am well-versed in the Bible and know it as absolute truth and infaliable. However, when I read the Psalms I see much emotion because David and other musicians were coming from that part of their make-up.David many times said, "I will wait for You Lord to speak!" We must not read heresy into everything. We must be discerning! Some of the other authors mentioned in other articles are extemely well-grounded in the faith but they express their faith differently than cut and dried logic. Can we as Christians allow for different personalities?
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