Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 04/03/06 09:07:28 PM |
Age 23, WA |
Amen Barbara, McLaren and others in the Emergent church easily speak their good deeds and "reformations" to the faith, yet they seem to leave all the soul-winning up to God. I have asked several people who follow these beliefs why they don't present the gospel, why they don't point out sin, why they don't challenge a brother or sister in Christ that is offending others with their sin, all of which is biblical. Their answer usually involves something about "leaving it in the hands of God", "letting the Holy Spirit do the convicting", or they always say "the Word of God never returns void" or "I do the planting and God does the growing". It makes me angry to see people so puffed up, having so much concern for social works, yet no concern for souls and eternity.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 03/22/06 08:12:26 AM |
Age 51, CA |
Thanks for taking the time to write this commentary, Jason......You are right on and may God continue to richly bless you and keep you. Listening for the Trumpets, Nancy
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Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 03/21/06 10:49:40 PM |
Age 30, MN |
I agree that the answer is both/and... and I stated this in my article. However, Mclaren gives no evidence in his comments that he sees it this way. He clearly states that the problem with sin is simply what it does between people. He does not even hint in his comments here that sin is an offense against God's holiness. So, while it's nice that you are trying to defend Mclaren here, maybe we should let him speak for himself instead of defending what we think he meant to say, or wish he would have said.
Sincerely,
Jason Carlson
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Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 03/21/06 08:32:21 PM |
Age 66, IN |
Thanks for stating so clearly what I was thinking. Both/and is a good way to put it. I think of the scripture talking about Christians being known for their love of one another. There was a time when I loved God but was scared in a way that prevented me from rejoicing in God's mercy and calling to me. That would have seemed prideful to me at that time. I believe this is the type of fearful attitude McLaren is addressing. There is a holy fear, an awe, a respect, and understanding of God's omniscience and omnipotence that does honor God. It produces a trust that God is working in me and sanctifying me, so that although I know sin is an offense against God, I also know that I can confess it and be forgiven. Therefore I do not have to beat up myself or others with angry outbursts when sinful behavior occurs. I believe this is what McLaren means in the material quoted here.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 03/21/06 03:07:52 PM |
Age 56, AZ |
I don't interpret Mclaren that way at all. He is not denying sin's affect on God; he is emphasizing sin's affect upon the apple of God's eye--His people. It's a valid emphasis, though certainly not one that should neglect the other. There's just too much "either-or" stuff going on today, when the answer is really "both-and."
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 03/21/06 07:14:14 AM |
Age 58, MS |
Mr. Mclarens version of what Gods concern with humanity is ......Just be good children and play nice ! Makes the Heavenly Father sound as if He has no time to be bothered .
What a weak gospel this is ! He make the Lord sound so Unholy ! And to think that Mr. Mclaren is influencing people who are searching for "The Truth " ! It's not in his teaching ! Lord, Have Mercy !
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 03/20/06 11:41:45 AM |
Age 51, NY |
If there is no respect for the relational boundary of holiness in our approach to God, then we are only giving Him lip service at best or believe that we can approach Him as an equal partner, a far worse perception. In essence, heretical teachers like Mr. Mclaren are approaching God as an intellectual equal, and betray this attitude by presenting their words as if they have equal weight to God's word. While we can come boldly to the throne of grace, it is through Christ we obtain mercy and grace in our time of need. Respect for God's holiness results in our brokeness and is the motivation to walk in the fear of the Lord. Teachers like Mclaren see this fear as a terror, because inside they know that they are not following after righteousness, and hence, it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God, when you are not right with Him!
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 03/20/06 09:46:27 AM |
Age 57, VA |
It is hard not not get infuriated at the audacity of these Emergent "Christian"leaders who imply that Christianity has hindered and done nothing or very little for social justice. Look at what the lack of christianity has done for other nations. Go to India and see cripples begging on the side of the street and passers by doing nothing to help because "these people have at some point in their many lives brought this on themselves and it is their "Karma" to "work out" things for themselves." Watch the procession of their "Holy" Gurus parade down the main streets naked with dung matted in their hair because this is some how "spiritual." For years now the New Agers have smacked "Think Peace" stickers on their cars because they believe that there can and must be Peace on this earth and it will ONLY happen as the world "Thinks it can" and "dialogues" about the possibililtes of bringing it about. It is sickening to see these Emergent Leaders INTRENCHED in the very same belief systems, while calling themselves "Christians." The network of New Agers must be "dancing in the streets" because they have accomplished what they had hoped for- To convince the Church that they were right and that the Church would have to follow them. (The end result of a New Agers belief system is that those who do not line up with what they believe will "somehow" be removed and purged from the earth so that Global Peace will not be hindered! When you take Mc Lauren's thinking to where it is headed, we, who "seemingly do not want to get along with others", will become "haters" in his mind too and since he is living more for the "here and now" rather than for the hereafter, he will distance himself more and more from us, taking many unsuspecting with him, unless he repents!) You can't deny the doctrins of sin and hell and be a Christian. Mc Lauren and his like are New Agers. Well, unfortunately this is the Apostasy, the Falling Away. It is happening and many are not even aware. More specifically, many "so-called christians" DON'T WANT TO HEED THE WARNINGS!If this article and the audio of Mc Lauren talking about the CROSS and Hell does not cause some to change course and Come out of "the emergent movement" than heaven help us!Karen
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Brian Mclarens Serious Take On Sin
| Posted On: 03/20/06 09:17:09 AM |
Age 44, TX |
That kind of theology, that just wants to placate God I think that that theology was the perfect theology to enfranchise apartheid, colonialism, segregation in the United States, it enfranchises carelessness toward the poor, disregard for the rights of homosexuals, carelessness toward people with AIDS. It shifts all the attention from Gods will being done on Earth to what happens to us after we die. And I think that is the kind of thing that would make God furious, if I can use that kind of language; and I think thats exactly why Jesus uses such strong language toward the Pharisees. -McLaren
Do you find Jesus was primarily interested in the temporary alleviation of social issues, or the sin behind them causing the eternal consequences? Did he die to make this world a better place to live?
I once belonged to a small group of friends, and loved ones, embracing this type of teaching. I am weary of being called a Pharisee while attempting to remain committed to biblical truth. I am weary of watching others stand thanking God they are not like the traditional church, not neglecting the poor, they are really loving people, unlike those other Christians.
Jesus told this parable to some who were confident in their own righteousness:
Luke 18:9-14
Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
~Barbara
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