CAN ANYONE TRUST IN JESUS AND BE LOST
| Posted On: 10/20/09 12:02:26 PM |
Age 66, OH |
Dear friend PGW; an evolutionist has two legs, but the fact that I have two legs, does NOT make me an evolutionist. A Markist has two arms and so do I, but I assume that you have two arms also. I have stated my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as The One and Only God Almighty and The One and Only way to be saved. Yet you ignore that statement, which is the only condition to being saved, and still imply that I am a evolutionist, and imply that I am a Marxist, and a Darwinist by ignoring those statements that you made. Marxists and Darwinist are atheists and hold the blood of The Lord Jesus as of no value. I think it is a very serious thing to call a person by either of those names that trusts in the blood of The Lord Jesus. Are you saying that the blood of Christ has no effect on my eternal soul. Are you saying that the blood of The Lord Jesus does not save. - Lou Newton
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Answer
| Posted On: 10/18/09 07:36:55 PM |
Age 59, OR |
Evolutionist assume that aeons were required to deposit X-number of fossil layers.
Creationists suggest, from observation of contemporary cataclysms, that it all happen very quickly in a giant upheaval during the flood period of a few years.
Since no layers are entirely consisent and since the layers are used to DATE the evolutionist's time frame (and the time frame is used to date the layers...) THIS IS YOUR VERY CIRCULAR AND VERY STRAW MAN. PGW.
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Concerning six days and dragons
| Posted On: 10/16/09 02:29:56 PM |
Age 23, OH |
53, NC: 1) You say that God created the heavens and the earth in 6 24 hour day. Yet, in Gen 2:4: "These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." Notice, it says "day" not "days." So by your theory, did God do it in one day or six? 2)You say that dragons are evidence that dinosaurs lived with man. "History is replete with stories of dragons from around the world. The Europeans even had dragon slayers." Well Europeans (as well as other cultures) also had minotaurs, medusa, werewolves, vampires, centaurs, hydra and the like. Should we believe in all these too? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong (although I'm not saying you're right either), I just want you to think about your theory and the some of the questions it might raise. Thanks. ~Isaac N~
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PRESENT A REAL ARGUMENT
| Posted On: 10/16/09 01:22:57 PM |
Age 66, OH |
Dear PGW, you can not argue any of the points that I raise so you simply erect the straw man of evolutionary-marxist-darwinianism that is blown over by the wind and then claim that you have won the argument. I have never heard a evolutionary-marxist-darwinianism say the following statement that I made: "I believe the Holy Scriptures and that The Lord Jesus, who is a person, and the One and Only God Almighty, created all that exists and nothing exists that he did not create. The Lord Jesus created the universe out of nothing." Present a real argument please. You have used the same tactics that the liberals use: assassinate my character by calling me a Marxist and a Darwinist and ignore the questions that I bring up. Jesus never used these tactics. You site a single instance of Dinosaur and man footprints that are in the same area and say that proves they lived at the same time and ignore thousands upon thousands of layers of fossils that show that Dinosaurs lived much before man ever set foot upon the earth. You do not answer my points because you can not. - Lou Newton
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Origins etc.
| Posted On: 10/16/09 12:03:27 PM |
Age 59, OR |
Confusing pre-flood with post flood eras.
Talking about lions (post flood) to dispell large pre-flood dinos is disingenious.
When created initially, all animals were herbivores and not antagonistic towards men.
Think about this. After the flood, dinos were a)SMALL, b)SCARCE. The 66 books of the bible were largely decided upon by the Roman church. So it is disingenious to use that limitation to argue for Rome's view whilst conveniently ignoring other books that contain a less politically correct account.
The Apostles and Jesus were NOT constrained by the 66 books of our 'Bible'. I am NOT saying that the 66 books are NOT God breathed, but there are other books to study as well. If you must pick and chose, then so be it. Dino and human prints are in sedimentary rock strata laid down by the flood. It is EVOLUTIONIST theory to separate them by aeons. However, these prints are probably only separated by weeks during the deluge and deposition of continental size masses of sand, clay, rock and debris of monumental proportions. As the waters sloshed back and forth across the earth during the time of the flood they took with them sludge masses the size of Texas and just dumped them whereever. I think God said that in the beginning He created seed bearing trees. NOT planting seeds and waiting ages for the trees to sprout.
I am really sorry for people that have found it essential to mix evolutionary-marxist-darwinianism with God's Word. PGW
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SATAN IS THE ANGEL OF LIGHT
| Posted On: 10/16/09 10:18:12 AM |
Age 66, OH |
Thank you for your kind reply. Dinosaurs were unknown until recent times. It was not until the middle 1800's that Dino fossils were found. Yes there were many stories and legends about creatures and false gods, but that does not make them true. Surely you do not believe that the Cyclops existed or any other one eyed monster. What about a woman with the hair of snakes, I do not think anyone believes it to be true today. - The Dragon is mentioned in the Bible, but it is a parable or picture name of Satan. Satan is an angel who has an appearance much the same as a man, Satan is also NOT a serpent, but was called one, because snakes sneak around in the grass unseen until they bite you with their deadly poison. If Satan really looked like a dragon, don't you think Eve would have ran from him. To the eye Satan appears as the angel of beauty, or angel of light; but Satan behaves like a snake or a dragon. - You mention one scripture in Job that you say could be about Dinos; it could also be about Crocs and/or Hippos. But you have missed my whole point. God does not tell of men killing rabbits or squirrels to speak of their courage, that would be silly. God speaks of David killing the lion and the bear with a club as a story of courage. But if Dinos also walked the earth while men were here, then a story of a man killing a bear would be as silly as the squirrel story. For a bear is as a squirrel if Dinos also were here. God would pick the largest and strongest animal story to demonstrate the courage of a man, not the very small bear or lion if Dinos were here. Were are the stories of the Dinos in the Bible, it should be FILLED with stories of any monster so large and fearsome. The large Dinos were over 100 tons and a bear is under a one ton. It is pretty close to comparing a bear to a squirrel. I think God, who is able to do anything,except break His own laws, could express himself to describe a Dinosaur that we would all know what He was speaking of. - I knew of a dear men, who was a Mennonite, and we talked of the Dinosaurs. He admitted that man could not have had dominion over the earth while they were here. He said however that the Dinosaurs were not real and never existed. He was a man who loves Jesus, but also a very sheltered man, who did not know the truth of these beasts. I wanted to see for myself and took my children all over the country to see their fossils. They were real. - You speak of the ark and we know that if Dinos were still alive before the flood, then God commanded Noah to take two of every living creature on the ark. The trouble is that the ark was not even close to being large enough for Dinos to be saved by it. The largest wooden ship built in modern times was about 450 feet longs and could carry 6000 tons, but it was reinforced with iron braces and flexed so much that it leaked and sunk. What if the ark could even carry 10000 tons, at 100 tons each it would not be able to carry many Dinos and their food. A dino is 100 times the size of large mammals and the ark was not even close to being large enough. Canoes are longer than horses, but I doubt that anyone has ever been able to carry a horse in a canoe for 1 minute let alone a year. - We also have the fossil record that the same God who wrote the Bible left us. I have seen with my own eyes that the Dino fossils are a over a very, very long time period and the fossils of men are over a very short period of time. There are no fossils of men from the time period of the Dinos or even close to the same period. - The two records that were both created by God have to agree. God can not lie in any way. Grace to you. - Lou Newton
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ARK NOT BIG ENOUGH
| Posted On: 10/15/09 08:47:44 PM |
Age 66, OH |
Thank you for your very kind reply, dear friend. You say,"apocryphal books to the Bible is a book called "Bel and the Dragon"". I do not think the Apocrypha is from God but from men. The Bible mentions the Dragon, and also calls Satan a serpent and many other names. But we do not really think Satan is a dragon or snake do we. The dragon is just a term used for Satan just as Jesus is called The Lamb. I do not think Jesus has four legs and has wool, it is just a picture word to show that Jesus sacrificed Himself for us. There are many legends about false animals and false gods; I do not believe there was a Cyclops, or one eyed monster do you. - I had a dear friend ,who was a Mennonite, and when I asked him about this; he said he could not believe men had dominion over Dinosaurs. But he got around this by saying that Dinos did not exist, and that they were just a conspiracy by the scientist. I already knew that Dinos existed for I had wanted to see with my own eyes, and took my kids to Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Chicago, and New York to find out. Dinos did exist, but the question is how do animals exist now. They survive by size and strength, or speed or intelligence or stealth. How does an elephant survive today. It is so large that no other animal, except men, can kill it when adult. So how could an elephant survive if it was very small compared to the T Rex. The Elephant is small and slow and would seem to have no defense. If one examines the fossil record left to us by the same God who wrote the Bible, he can see that the elephant fossils are much, much later in time then the Dinos. - You mention the ark that Noah built that was 450 feet long and 75 feet wide and say that the Dinos were on the ark. It is thought that there were over a 1000 different kinds of Dinos. There were about 30 kinds of the very very large ones, and times two would make 60. That would not include the kind like T Rex. These were close to 100 feet long and so the ark would not have had room for them, let alone the food for them for a year. It is almost hard to believe that Noah got all the mammals and all their food aboard. But Dinos are many times larger and would have required a much bigger ark. The elephant weighs about 5 tons but the large Dinos weighed about 100 tons. The ark would have had to be 20 times larger to fit the Dinos. Some argue that Noah did not take the Dinos and that is how they became extinct. But God said, 19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them." So if the Dinos were still alive they had to be on the ark. A ship the size of the ark would have a displacement of less than 10000 tons. But the animals could not be packed like sardines and still live. If one could squeeze in 2500 tons of animals and food it would be packed very tight. That would be room for about 25 large Dinos and no food or other animals. The ark was just not large enough to put the Dinos and there food into it. I have no problem with this, for I do not think that the Bible says that men and Dinos walked the earth at the same time. Grace to you. - Lou Newton
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YOU HAVE MISQUOTED ME
| Posted On: 10/15/09 07:16:54 PM |
Age 66, OH |
YOU HAVE MISQUOTED ME dear friend. You quote me as saying, ” To think that the universe just happened and created itself out of nothing…” as I said this; when in fact this is what I said, To think that the universe just happened and created itself out of nothing IS THE MOST SUPREME STUPIDITY; - I believe the Holy Scriptures and that The Lord Jesus, who is a person, and the One and Only God Almighty, created all that exists and nothing exists that he did not create. I have never said in the last 33 years that the universe created itself out of nothing. The Lord Jesus created the universe out of nothing. - God Himself tells us that every fact should be established by two or more witnesses. You quote one vague scripture out of Job and say that it speaks of Dinosaurs. You missed my whole point; the Bible is FILLED with stories about lions and bears that are very small compared to Dinos. If men walked the earth with monster Dinosaurs then the Bible should be FULL of stories about them and give great details about them. The animals in Job could have been the croc and /or the Hippo, etc. I would find it hard to believe that a Dino would eat grass like an ox. Have you ever seen the size of their mouth. - You can believe anything you choose to; but I find I am unable to believe that men had DOMINION of the earth when Dinos walked the earth. You have failed to address my point that men had a hard time killing the lion and the bear with a club, spear and bow. Also remember even men who did not know God had dominion over the earth. Do you really think that any man could kill a T Rex with a little spear or club. The Bible is filled with stories about men killing lions and bears; that would be like telling stories of killing rabbits and squirrels if Dinos also walked the earth. Is there one story as an example of a man courage for killing a rabbit or squirrel, NO God uses the largest and strongest animals as the example. Where is the story of the man who had such courage that he killed the Dinosaur. And by the scriptures there should be at least two or three if true. - About the word "day": If as you claim the days were earth solar days and the sun was created on the fourth day as you claim; have you never bothered to ask God what brought the evening and the morning of day 1 and 2. A earth solar day is measured by the sunrise to sunrise. How could the sun, that was not there, rise. What brought the natural light to the earth when God said, "let there be light". I believe God when He said "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Is not the sun part of the heavens, then it was created in the beginning. God does not say that He CREATED the sun on the 4th day but God said let them be OR let them appear as some translations say.- Also if the earth produced the plants, and I believe it did as God said, and then the plants brought forth seed and the seed brought forth plants after their kind. Where are these KIND of plants that grow without the light of the sun and also grow up and produce seeds in 24 hours. And where did the KIND of plants that we have now, that require the light of the sun and much time to produce seeds come from. - God is not upset when someone asks Him questions about these matters. Jesus was so pleased with Enoch who did ask such questions of Him that He took Enoch up to heaven without Enoch experiencing death. - Concerning the interpretation of The Holy Scriptures, I ask the Lord Jesus about all scripture and try and never interpret them on my own. Jesus in His great mercy always answers me and shows me the truth and then confirms it in the scriptures. His promise is that if we ask, he will show us. His promise is to all that ask. Grace to you. - Lou Newton
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Reply to: DID DINOSAURS WALK WITH MEN
| Posted On: 10/14/09 07:57:51 PM |
Age 53, NC |
Dear Lou,
There is so much wrong about the statements you made in your post “DID DINOSAURS WALK WITH MEN”. I will attempt to correct or clarify.
* You stated: ” You imply by your statement that this day is a earth solar day and shows the TIME of creation. The Holy Scriptures DO NOT state this but this is your assumption.”
The Bible is clear that the days of creation are a 24 hour days. The word day is qualified by the context. The word ‘day’ is qualified by the terms ‘it was evening and morning’. Denoting a 24-hour period. Example if I said in that day the Caesars ruled.’ Day’ would refer to a specific time in history not 24 hours. Keep the word in context.
* You stated: ” To think that the universe just happened and created itself out of nothing…”
Apparently you forgot God created the universe by His word. The universe did not create itself! Even with the ‘big bang theory’ scientist have no idea what was before the bang. I’ve heard descriptions that there was a super dense atom of matter that contained all the matter which now makes up the universe. Talk about fantasy!
* You stated: ”But it also seems not very intelligent to think that dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time as men.”
All land animals were created the same day as man. When God created everything He said it was good. There was no death before Adam and Eve sinned. There was no animal eating another animal. There was not even sickness.
*You give the argument to dinos not mentioned in scripture but lions and bears this is scriptural proof that dinos did not live that same time as man.
Wrong again. Consider the description of the “behemoth” Job 40:15-18 “Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you; He eats grass like an ox. See now, his strength is in his hips, And his power is in his stomach muscles. He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit. His bones are like beams of bronze, His ribs like bars of iron.” Keep in mind the word ‘dinosaur’ was first coined in 1841, thus the Bible would not use that word. However the word ‘dragon’ is also used to describe large reptiles and is used in the Bible. History is replete with stories of dragons from around the world. The Europeans even had dragon slayers.
I hope this response gives you reason to learn more on these topics and to rightly divide the word of truth God’s word. –-Peace and Grace be unto you!
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Unanimous History: Dinosaurs did walk with men
| Posted On: 10/14/09 07:43:00 PM |
Age 44, MN |
Until evolutionary theory became popular in the last 100+ years, everyone knew that dinosaurs were contemporaries of man.
There are dragon stories and drawings in caves all over the world. Did all these ancient people make-up stories and pictures of the same long-extinct creatures? No. They had experiences with them. Native Americans, Australians, Chinese, Europeans... Even as late as the 1500's, are documented encounters of dragons with whole villages...
It is a sin and censoring of information, that so many historial tales have been censored from our history and science textbooks because the atheist evolutionary scientists in control of textbooks have taken over. I thank God that I learned these stories in a variety of sources growing up and in substitute teaching in a Christian School.
One of the apocryphal books to the Bible is a book called "Bel and the Dragon".
The Bible does have descriptions fitting of dinosaurs such as Leviathan in Job. I believe in Psalms and Isaiah are also mentioned. It is true that most of the Bible is silent about dinosaurs, but the very oldest books are the ones that mention them.
Different dinosaurs became extinct at different times just like many other species have. Many probably became extinct shortly during and after the glacial age following the worldwide flood of Noah' day. With only one couple of each kind of animal after the flood, it certainly would be easy to become extinct. Therefore, in most of human history, there were probably not that many dinosarus.
Some kinds of dinosaurs, such as dragons, have lived into the 1500s. A few may be alive today such as the Loch Ness monster in Scotland.
Probably many species of dinosaurs were extinct when much of the Bible was written at least in the Middle East where the world was the most populated and civilized. There were probably dinosaurs longer in other parts of the world a lot less populated.
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CORRECTION
| Posted On: 10/14/09 01:10:47 PM |
Age 66, OH |
I should have pointed out this fact; the men who claimed to be followers of Jesus and interpreted His Scriptures incorrectly were WRONG - while mere heathens who were searching for truth, interpreted the heavens correctly and were right. The Pope, who had the scriptures, said the earth was flat; but the some Greeks from 600BC that did not have the scriptures, said the earth was a sphere. The Greeks were correct and the Pope was wrong. - Lou Newton
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THE CREATION DECLARES THE GLORY OF GOD
| Posted On: 10/14/09 11:32:02 AM |
Age 66, OH |
God has also left us another account that is just as true as the scriptures, for God created both the scriptures and the universe. I have seen with my own eyes the fossils of the dinosaur. Go to Dinosaur national park and see that the dino fossils are a very deep layer and the top layer of fossils of mammals and men is very shallow. All the evidence left to us from God, seem to point to the fact that dinos were here for a very, very long time, and men have been on this earth a very short time. - Every word of the Holy Scriptures are true, of course we have to be careful even here, for sometimes the scriptures are a true account of lies told by Satan or men. But the interpretations of the scriptures by mere men, that men call doctrine, are not infallible. In fact most of the doctrines of men are false and this should make us all humble. One group says Jesus will return before the tribulation and others say before. All can not be right. Mere men have always been so sure about these doctrines that they have even killed over them. The pope had men burnt at the stake because they disagreed with these doctrines. In fact, by some accounts the Roman Catholic church has killed more men than Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined. Some accounts say the Spanish inquisition was responsible for the death of 70 million people. The pope "knew" that he was right, because he "knew" that the Bible was plain and simple and correct. So the earth was flat, according to him, because the scriptures spoke of "the four corners of the earth". But mere Greek heathens, who lived before the time of Christ already knew the earth was a sphere, by the shadow it left on the moon during an eclipse. The Bible is correct, but our interpretations are so often wrong. The pharisees were so sure that their interpretation was correct that they hung the Lord Jesus Himself on the cross. - These false doctrines were all doctrines of the men who were the leaders of the church at the time. I have learned that popular doctrines are usually wrong. The prophets were never popular, and seldom believed. The pharisees claimed that they would have believed the prophets if they would have come in their day. But the truth of the matter is that they hung The Prophet of all prophets on the cross. Grace to you friend. - Lou Newton
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DID DINOSAURS WALK WITH MEN
| Posted On: 10/14/09 11:29:33 AM |
Age 66, OH |
Chuck, you say, (According to the Biblical model, humans and apes were created the same day, and would have lived on the earth at the same time.) You imply by your statement that this day is a earth solar day and shows the TIME of creation. The Holy Scriptures DO NOT state this but this is your assumption. To think that the universe just happened and created itself out of nothing is the most supreme stupidity; but it also seems not very intelligent to think that dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time as men. Lets look at the evidence from the holy Scriptures about this. Are not the scriptures COMPLETE. God do not leave anything out. God knew of the future controversy over the dinos walking with men. How many animals are mentioned in the Bible. Look at all the stories about the animals and their experiences with men. What animals are left out of the stories. Men boast of their courage or the help that God gave them, while they defeated lions and bears. Look how MANY stories about the lion and bear as an example of courage. The Bible is FULL of stories about the lion and the bear. Why would men even bother to give this as an example of courage if there was also a dinosaur that walked the earth at the same time. I think a bear that was twice my height would not even be worth mentioning IF there was an animal that was 100 feet long on the earth at that time. If a man wants to boast, let him tell of killing a dino. God gave man DOMINION over the earth. Man was able to make a spear and a bow to have dominion over the lion and the bear. David used a club to kill both. I can not believe that any man could kill a dinosaur with a club, spear or bow; at least not before the dino killed him. After all, the lion and the bear killed many men, and man did not have dominion over them easily. If the dino walked with men, how could you explain how man had dominion at that time. You would think the scriptures would be FILLED with many stories and details about these great beasts. Why did men fear the sea; because some had seen the great whales and they trembled in fear at an animal of such great size. They did not know that these whales did not eat meat such as men, and so were of no great danger to them in their ships. But these whales could not come on the land. But who can believe that a T Rex was not dangerous to little men. One tooth was the bigger than the whole mouth of the lion. Where are all the stories of the great battles between the T- Rex and little men. Grace to you dear friend. - Lou Newton
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