Re: Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/18/07 09:20:45 PM |
Age 61, TX |
I would also like to see more lengthy articles on this subject. For the sake of discussion, and in a non-confrontational way, I'd like to ask you to consider the following: Jesus may not have thrown any grenades at the Pharisees and Scribes, but He did confront them. In Mt. 22:29, He told the Sadducees they were wrong because they didn't know the Scriptures. In Mt. 23:3, He tells the disciples and crowds they must obey the Pharisees, "but do not do that they do." In Mt. 23, verses 13, 15, 16, 23, 25, 27, 29 are the seven Woes that Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, calling them hypocrites, blind guides, blind fools, blind men, blind guides (again), blind Pharisees, full of wickedness, etc. Finally in verse 33, Jesus said "You snakes! You brood of vipers." I don't think He focused on any of the positive aspects of their religiousness, only their unscriptural hypocritical ways. I think we need to know how close some groups get to the truth, but only so we can be prepared to discuss the whole truth of the Word in an enlightened way with them when we have the opportunity. Example: Jehovah's Witnesses.
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Re: Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/18/07 07:08:02 PM |
Age 52, NC |
There isn't any EXclusivity in the literal interpretation of the Bible.
The Bible gives numerous entries to tell ALL, ANY, etc. who call on the name of Jesus, repent and they, (too) will be saved.
People EXclude themselves by turning their backs on Jesus, God, the Holy Spirit and the inspired word of God, the Bible, and continuing to live their lives in the practice of sin, because they believe the lies of the their 3 enemies, the world, the flesh and the devil.
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Re: Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/18/07 06:56:29 PM |
Age 52, NC |
I was wondering why the above writer does not say(write) the name of God?
It seems wrong to look at a supposed spelling of God's english name and see a dash in the middle.
Just wondering the rationale.
No offence meant. thank you.
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/17/07 11:56:29 PM |
Age 51, GA |
Seems to me, the real emerging church we ought to be concerned with, usually has spires on top and thinks muhammed was really a prophet of God. Or the more frightening church that has already emerged and taken over our schools, and much of society - secular humanism. Swiping at other Christians is pretty easy work. Where in the book does it say we should dedicate our efforts to apostasy hunting? If their not against us, their for us, right? Maybe you're accomplishing something, I can't tell. I believe this apostasy was going to happen anyway, at least according to my copy of the book. Go forth and spread the gospel, is the true call. Go forth young man, go forth...
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/17/07 08:00:51 PM |
Age 61, TX |
Thank you for your very informative article. Your personal experience with the Emergent Church carries a lot of weight. I was especially surprised by the key errors you listed, and would like to know more. The Emergent Church is a deviation from Scripture. Satan inaccurately quoted Scripture to Jesus, but it sounded so nearly correct that many don't realize it's not. When it comes to the Bible, it's either right or wrong. There's no room for gray. The beginning of tolerance in religion has done so much to destroy soundness in many denominations and certainly in some of the newer versions of religion. Acts 1:16 says "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes..." Gal. 1:6-10 "I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel--which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!....Am I now trying to win the approval of men or of God?...If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ." I looked up the word "different" used in verse 6. If my reference is correct, the original Greek translation would be "heteros," meaning another totally different kind. To be "heterodox" is to be a heretic! I'm the first to admit that Satan is having a heyday with organized religion today, but if any group in heretical in one area, why would anyone trust them in any area? I think it's partially due to the degradation of morals, and the "lite" version of Scripture is a feel-good religion for the sector who puts themselves and their desires at the core of the universe, rather than God. I appreciate your courage to speak out, and hope you're greatly blessed.
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/17/07 05:40:00 PM |
Age 58, VA |
This watering down, turning, and twisting of the the Word was recognized back in the early 70's with "love one another" over not pointing out blatant sins. The mistake we make is focusing on, really, loving ourselves more than God and others. We don't want anyone to think bad of us. It is too late for that, provided we have been crucified with Jesus.
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/17/07 11:55:14 AM |
Age 65, WA |
Dear Jason, Your dad taught me so much. I went to his meetings in Bothell Wash confused on lots of issure's. I bought all of his tapes on religons and the main one's on Catholic's, Mormon's and JW etc. He cleared my mind and I can truly say according to G-d's word, as all he teaches lines up with scripture which is the only truth. It also speaks of apostasy and how we will see it, but Satan's slimy big lie is out there and many are believing it. Churches who have forever warned all of us as kids and now I am 65 and see them embracing the "other Jesus" Paul warned us of. The world is in the chruch, Jesus in the box or wafer and Catholic's have signed them up under their umbrella and the POpe said the Catholic Church worships the same god as Muslims..Hello!! We know prophecy that G-d comanded us to know..so how can they be so deceived..it is because Preachers are not teaching the word and will receive double punishment in that day...along with their prosperty gospel and the church bringing in the Kingdom? No, My G-d said, My kingdom is NOT of this world, but most think they replaced Israel and that they are Israel. they have a rude awakening. as they walk over scripture. Genesis 12:3 tells us those who take Israel lightly or do not bless Her or are silent..are cursed. G-d doesn't change no shadow of turning. He is the same yesterda today and forever !! Matthew tells us that the church would be judged on how they treat her and are against Almighty G-d if they are against Israel or try to take the land , called by His Name. Do they really think G-d is a Covenant breaker? If so, why trust the cross? They need to go read Ezekiel 38 and 39 and the romans and Isa real slow !! Only the Holy Spirit can open their eyes. Man never saved anyone and G-d said it would be like the days of Noah when He took the church..but the one world religion , gov and constution that is coming into play is Satan ran and is against G-d's Word. The tower of babel is what is being built that G-d tore down becasue of violence. Because they refused the truth, G-d said He would send a lit and they would believe it. Apostasy means truth is out. He also said, from such turn away. they are not friends of G-d and a friend of the world is enemy of G-d..think on that Jason. Birds of feather flock together, ever see a eagle fly with crows.?? They think Rev is fulfilled and most think they are little gods..Most are praying and worshiping Mary as the pope said,,,call on Mary to appear..no Jesus..Hello world,,you are in apostasy, trun back..Even the President calls our G-d Allah an says all religions have their own way to heaven...a lie so big the world is excepting it..as it is written..the old New Age,moon god, all occult..from Satan himself.. I have family that is beliving the lie as Satan has words so twisted from truth that they don't see it...And I was even more surprised that Baptist who have always led and knew the word would not except such satanic words...Church Smith Sr. is or has to be devistated that his son is part of the purpose driven church. Warren the next Billy Graham,,HARDLY..remember Satan is a liar, has only a little time left and is going around to steal, kill and to destroy souls..
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Re: Re: Re: Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/17/07 11:06:37 AM |
Age 23, BC |
Im actually amazed at how many people take the "judge not lest you be judged" scripture way out of context. It's like it's become the new 11th commandment or something. It has become a mantra for those confronted in their error and sadly shows that they are not willing to carefully examine scripture, but would rather adhere to popular opinion or lazy pragmatic mentalities. It's very sad that when these people stand before God their justification for such error will burn up, leaving them void of excuse. Lord help your people to discern rightly, according to Your Word.
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I'm questioning your comparisons
| Posted On: 01/17/07 09:23:41 AM |
Age 47, GA |
Thank you for sharing your personal journey thru and out of the EC. I question your list of "theologians" Your list is totally Evangelical. Maybe that is how you ended up in the EC in the first place. Try reading Calvin, Luther, Owen, Hobbs, Dabney, Hodge, Warfield, and Augustine. Now there is some filet for savoring.
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/17/07 08:20:57 AM |
Age 60, GA |
It is every local church's sins and perversion of all truths that have allowed these same perversions to be manifested more overtly in these 'emerging churches. These same sins are and have been present through idolitry - spiritually. No one cares to see or listen. You are your own prophets, but are blind and arrogant.
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 01/17/07 04:36:10 AM |
Age 26, UK |
I often read the Worldview articles- i'm not sure how I ended up on the mailing list, but i find it useful and interesting to read ideas and thoughts from people who are often at the other end of the spectrum from me.
The critisisms laid at the door of the 'emerging church' (that's 'emerging' not 'emergent' because it is something that is a continual process of renewal in the church, not a group of people with a name) are usually the same sort of thing- watering down the gospel, being too inclusive etc.
I appreciate that the author of the article had first hand experience with the 'emergent conversation' but as is so often the case with critisisms of the church, it is based on a small part of what is happening all over the place.
the important thing is that 'emerging' church is about how we regard and define being the church, not about our theology, our take on the bible, or homosexuality (and by gosh if that's not the biggest stumbling block to so much of the church, it's ALWAYS mentioned somewhere...)
someone could have the same strict, literal interpretation of the bible and the same exclusivity, as the next conservative evangelical and yet still be involved with the emerging renewal of the church, and the realisation that the church goes way beyond sunday morning meetings. I know because I know people just like that.
Until people really understand what is really going on with the church it will be very difficult to engage in a useful conversation about it.
I believe a large difference comes in the fact that I am from the UK, and we have a slightly different take on what makes things 'emergent'.
Thanks
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Re: Emergent Church - EVANGELICAL COVENANT
| Posted On: 07/26/06 11:39:47 AM |
Age 36, MN |
Thank you for posting this. This particular Emergent 'congregation' is a member of the Evangelical Covenant denomination (www.covchurch.org) which is pushing just about every kind of error BIG TIME from the top down. Social Gospel, contemplative spirituality, church growth, Emergent, and some up-and-coming young leaders (The Young Pietists especially) are starting to make noises about being more open to homosexuality (read here:http://www.pietisten.org/misc/redefining.html)
And to see what kind of debate happened at the 2004 meeting which this referred to see: http://www.covchurch.org/cov/companion/article/0408KeepingMission.pdf
There are lots of conservative people slumbering away while this disease eats away at their church. They have been taught not to make waves, and the results are that they don't question anyone with strange teachings, lest someone be offended. Please, Covenanters who are true to Scripture, wake up!
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Re: Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 03/10/06 09:06:04 AM |
Age 56, NC |
I am just beginning to look into the term "the emergent church", however, I recognize it from experience with certain friends and their lukewarmness toward Christ/The Word of God.
I would like to respond to the individual who asked "why is the movement a threat...and threatening to whom?" And his question, "where is the church and what does it look like?".
Any teaching of false docterine is a threat to certain hearers; (1) believers who are weak in the faith and (2)unbelievers who are being drawn to Christ. Solid Bible-believers are not threatened by false doctrine because they have so bathed their minds in Scripture, seeking after God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength, that the indwelling Spirit gives them discernment to recognize the false compared to the truth. The deception will be so great in the end times (now?!) that even the elect would be deceived if it were possible. But it isn't possible because God sustains those who are His in knowledge and understanding which He has given them .
"Where is the Church...and what does it look like?" The Church, the group/body of all belevers, blankets the earth, and it looks like millions of "outposts" in hostile territory. Each believer (the church) is like a solid rock of God-given, ever-growing, wisdom, knowledge and understanding of Truth. The true believer is in the process of overcoming the world, his flesh and the devil by his testimony that Christ has bought him with His own blood, that self has died and it is Christ's life in him; and he/she loves Jesus Christ (of Nazareth, lately of the right hand of Power in heaven)) more than his/her own life.
The Church doesnt coincide with a demonination, the individual "churches"... men and women and children who are gazing at Jesus Christ, are being conformed day by day into His glorious likeness (vs a demonination's configuration).
Perhaps the next conversation should be what Jesus Christ "looks" like.
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 03/06/06 05:27:39 PM |
Age 43, CA |
I really enjoy your humble and approachable style of writing and agree with you on this subject 100%! Thanks so much for the info!
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 03/04/06 07:35:07 AM |
Age 46, TX |
I have began research on the Emerging movement. I must say that I completely agree with Mr.Carlson. Much can be discussed in this new movement yet I will leave it with one comment from Jesus Himself; "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life. No one comes to the Father but through me." (John 14:6) What we do with this most meaningful and clear statement will determine the direction of an individual, a church and a movement. Acceptance of anything less or anything more will be found to be false. Thanks for the insight.
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 03/01/06 08:28:18 AM |
Age 57, MO |
I couldn't agree more!! Whether or not the organization bears the title "Emergent", our mega-church, emergent church, progressive church, purpose-driven church movements mostly tend to be inclusive and water down the Truth of Scripture!
My husband and I have just left such a church, and have joined ourselves to a congregation that takes seriously God's inerrant Word, and our personal responsibilities as His people.
Each moment is God's gift to us-what we do with it is our gift to Him,
Wilma Darlington
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Re: Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 03/01/06 05:37:18 AM |
Age 53, KS |
As an Evangelical Lutheran Church in America pastor and Army Chaplain, I seriously enjoin you to relook your thumbnail analysis of the ELCA. Remember my friend, our liturgies are based on the lectionary and our services emphasize Word and Sacrament. We are proponents of a biblically based worship and life. Although there are elements in our church which you may find unorthodox, as I may, in all, the ELCA is not equal to the EC. Rather than emergent, we are part of the historic reformation faith. I don't think the EC would agree with phrases like sola scriptura, sola fide and semper justus et peccator! Relook my friend. You'll find an Evangelical Church not an Emergent Church in the ELCA!
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Re: Re: Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 03/01/06 05:32:37 AM |
Age 53, KS |
Well I appreciate your sincerity on the subject while I was not pleased with the piece overall. Seems there is a heavy emphasis on polemics in your response and on this website. Agreed there are issues with the EC, and I have DA Carson's book, take us further when you do address it, give me something to consider that goes further than the 6 things you do not like. Talk about one of them in more depth. Thanks--all for the Kingdom.
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Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 02/28/06 10:38:48 PM |
Age 48, UK |
I, too, appreciated the sincere yet thoughtful expression of your views that clearly demonstrated regard for the beliefs of others who may disagree with you. I have great respect for Christians who show kindness and consideration for the feelings of others, and who refrain from instigating or engaging in shrill shouting matches. Unfortunately, that personal communication style (Christ like) seems to have gone out of style; certainly, it never has been favored here!
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Re: Re: Re: My Journey Into and Out of the Emergent Church
| Posted On: 02/28/06 09:47:24 PM |
Age 36, MN |
Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen....I agree. Thank you for saying. I have posted comments on other articles where people are using Matthew 18 out of context and saying "judge not lest you be judged" out of context and talking about how we need unity. You can not have unity with darknesss. There can not be fellowship or agreement with unbeleivers on the issues of the Gospel until they repent and agree about their sinfulness and who God is. But I agree with you that people need to see what the Bible says in context instead of how they feel or what they think or repeat the liberal sayings of unity, and Matthew 18 and "judge not".....Good for you for posting your Biblical feedback.
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