Fruit Inspector?
| Posted On: 07/21/09 09:28:22 AM |
Age 45, FL |
You claim that people saved by grace through faith in Jesus' finished work on the cross are "false converts"? I know the old saying about believers being "fruit inspectors", but this comment seems to be based not on the inspection of fruit, but the preconceived notions of someone who's never met, talked to or "inspected" the fruit of ANY of those people.
Are there people sitting in Saddleback Church's worship services thinking they're saved who aren't? You betcha'! Are there some in your church? Unless you have a house church consisting of you and your spouse, probably so... and you can't be positive about your spouse. I believe Billy Graham once said that 50% of people sitting in church buildings in America weren't saved.
Neither you, nor Jan Markel nor I have to agree with everything Rick Warren says or does. But to call all of the thousands of people growing in Christ-likeness as a result of God's grace at work through Rick's ministry is the kind of Biblically incorrect and unexceptable false judgment that splits churches, drives unbelievers away from the Bride of Christ, and most certainly breaks God's heart.
I confess, I don't believe, based on hearing and reading his teachings on salvation by grace through faith, and his stand on the inerrancy of scripture, that Warren is a false prophet. Imperfect and errant at times in speech, yes; false prophet, no. Anyone who speaks publicly on a regular basis is going to say things that can be interpreted as heretical by those looking to do so.
Please know this: the thousands baptized at Saddleback have heard the Gospel presented clearly, been told of the need to repent of their sins and have professed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord of their lives. Whether they were all genuine, I don't know, but I challenge any fellow believer to show Biblical justification for saying they are ALL false converts because their pastor didn't say what you wanted him to say when speaking before a group from an admittedly false religion.
I love you, brother, and pray that you will judge wisely, (rightly dividing the Word of Truth) not condemn ignorantly,
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Open letter to Rick Warren
| Posted On: 07/15/09 03:52:29 PM |
Age 59, FL |
Thank you very much Jan. I have had my doubts about him for a long time and this confirms my suspicions. He does not speak the truth. It is "Jesus only" to get to heaven. Jesus is the Prince of Peace. Sometimes my pastor quotes Rick Warren and it sends shudders down my spine. Also, our church orders material that is printed from them, mainly childrens church. Another example of trusting people instead of trusting and reading the Bible. So many big church pastors twist the scripture to fit their idea of ministry. They are wolves in sheeps clothing. This generation needs discernment and that comes with reading the word and lots of prayer.
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THANK YOU JAN!!
| Posted On: 07/10/09 10:23:08 PM |
Age 45, MN |
What a blessing to hear you write publicly exactly what I would like to say after having to leave a church that was taken over by Rick's Purpose Driven programs. The saving gospel is the only hope we have for an eternity in heaven rather than hell. That makes Rick's " big 5" seem rather small! Thank you for your courage to speak the truth in love - your ministry helps so many from being deceived - thank you!!
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TO: Matt 18 age 45 FM
| Posted On: 07/10/09 08:52:00 AM |
Age 55, IN |
Can you spell, "False COnverts?"
Thanks, Jan, (and Brannon)for your love of the truth of the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ.
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no comprimising
| Posted On: 07/08/09 11:01:36 PM |
Age 65, NC |
rick warren missed a golden oppurtunity to speak up for jesus. someone asked me if i knew was going to heaven and my reply was i sure do because my bible tells me. jesus said i am the way and the truth and the life no man cometh to the father but by me. jesus is the only way period. its time for all christians to act before the take god completely out of everythihg. there are moves afoot to delete under god from our pledge of allegiance to the flag and delete in god we trust from our currency. thats part of the one world order of "religion". time is running out for everyone.
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Thanks!
| Posted On: 07/08/09 02:39:44 PM |
Age 67, IN |
Thanks Jan,
I don't always think through issues, but it is nice to read someone who give the thoughts clearly and correctly. I love to hear other sides as long as I can think about it for a while.
When I read his book, I rejected the hundreds of translations he used. I felt he was searching for one that said what he wanted to have it say. Some of them didn't say what I thought the Bible said. Others didn't feel that way. I said it and kept quiet.
I will direct others to your letter.
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wolf
| Posted On: 07/08/09 01:40:36 PM |
Age 43, PA |
Rick Warren is a wolf in sheeps clothing! His whole plan of salvation is centered around works and he is the nwo's protestant poster boy for their ideal christian. One who does not let such verses as John 4:16 hold him back. The bible says do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers and that is his sole mission in life to equally yoke chrisitnas and muslims so we can all sing kumbaya over at the ac's bonfire. No thanks Rick I have a Messiah - Jesus Christ.
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Truth
| Posted On: 07/08/09 10:28:57 AM |
Age 65, NC |
Oh how sad, You are lost I will pray God will speak to you it is not about fun and bring Jesus in the back door, He died for you so you might have life eternal and that means making Him first and telling others about Him and turning peoples life around so that the Holy Sprit can lead and direct our life. Lost souls are in the balance here.
This is not to make fun of! May God speak to your heart.
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Standing Firm
| Posted On: 07/08/09 08:46:02 AM |
Age 51, WI |
I'm glad to see someone speak the truth. I've spoken to a Muslim student and Christians who have said there is more than one way to eternity with God. That is absolutely not correct and I'm sorry that Pastor Warren did not make that clear in his meeting with the Muslim group. I agree 100% with this open letter. Christians cannot be wishy washy with the truth that there is only one way to eternity and that is asking Jesus, who died for our sins, for forgiveness of our sins. Only through Jesus, will we live for eternity with the one true God.
Pam
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Dissappointed
| Posted On: 07/08/09 07:23:58 AM |
Age 54, GA |
As one who has followed the Purpose Driven Model in the past, I am extremely dissappointed in Rick Warren. I do believe that he is a man of God who has perhaps been caught up in his own fame. None the less, pastor Rick, the gospel cannot be compromised in the name of PEACE. Please reassess you foundation and lift Jesus up once again.
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Well Said!
| Posted On: 07/07/09 09:26:50 PM |
Age 45, NY |
How many talented and gifted men have been taken off their God given path as the fame and power becomes more and more about them instead of giving the glory where it rightfully belongs? The Purpose Driven Life is a life changing book. I know this as it is,in part, what lead me to my salvation after years of thinking my works as a Catholic would get me to heaven. I believe Mr. Warren may be suffering from "relativism" in line with the rest of the world. May God turn his eyes back on Jesus.
Gary
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The Word of God is always right...
| Posted On: 07/07/09 08:55:22 PM |
Age 60, AUSTRALIA |
Thank you for standing up for My Lord and Saviour, when there is many a Judas, in the making, it really has not changed, Jesus, had to deal with the self righteous of religion in his day. He never brought a Religion, but a Kingdom. and when people stop playing around with this religion and start getting into the Kingdom of God they may find it far better in many ways. yet as the word says, the falling away, and the Leodicea church He will spit out of his mouth, and if this Rick Warren will get his act together and repent, he might be in the running of going home again? (and Judas hung himself) as Rick Warren has done?
and as an ex-muslim would say, Repent! Rick Warren or be lost...? how dear he stand up for Satan and NOT our Lord Jesus.
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Well said
| Posted On: 07/07/09 08:04:12 PM |
Age 50, AZ |
Better than I said it...
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Amen.
| Posted On: 07/07/09 07:11:12 PM |
Age 46, MI |
Kevin, I'm not sure most people who read your post understand- but by the grace of God I do, and I concur with your thoughts. Judgment has indeed started in (what people assume) is the house of God and for good reason. When God's children actually see things from God's vantage point they will appraise these issues quite differently. It's the difference between trying to save America from socialism and being about our Fathers business. Many of the problems that people are obsessed over fixing are the actual things God is orchestrating for His purposes. It's important to see this lest we be found fighting a war we were never called to join in.
Thanks for the post. Praise God for His faithfulness in showing more and more individuals what really matters in this evil day. Michael
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God Bless
| Posted On: 07/07/09 12:50:50 PM |
Age 60, VA |
Jan Markell, you are a very blessed woman. I wish more pastors and evangelicas would come fourth and rebuke Rick Warren for his hypocrisy. How dare this man proclaim to be a christain and lead millions of people astray...including the muslims.
Jan,I pray God's grace shines upon you...protects you and continually blesses you.
Shalom
Arlette
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Commercial Christianity is a farce!
| Posted On: 07/07/09 12:41:49 PM |
Age 46, FL |
While I wholeheartedly agree with Jan's assessement of Rick's lack of chutzpah to unabashedly proclaim the Gospel of Christ to a captive audience of Muslims, the ecumenical convergence of world religions ranks low on the totum pole of Christianity's identity crisis. Let's first abolish the entire harlot church system and begin a grass roots, Holy Spirit led, ecumenical convergence of proper biblical hermeneutics and exegetical understanding . . . particularly the doctrine of eschatology and what Christianity refers to as "Hell." Until these major issues are resolved, how can lost souls of any ethnic, or cultural background be attracted to an heretical and hypocritical, man-centered and man-created system we call Christianity.
Church is not something we join, but rather are "born" into--the Ecclesia. We can't even get our thirty or so translations of the English bible to be congruent. Until the real Ecclesia and not "Christendom" can come to an eccumenical convergence on interpretive understanding of our own constitution (the bible), it's a waste of time to exert our so called, "biblical influence" on the rest of the world.
Liquidate the brick and mortar facilities allegedley known as churches and take the mammon and feed the hungry,mend the broken hearted, and spread the truth of Christ, him-crucified, and the soteriological accomplishment at the cross two thousand years ago and subsequent end of the old covenant system and birth of the new one.
Study the book of Hebrews Ecclesia.
KevinALehmann@AOL.COM
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Rick Warren...This is so sad..
| Posted On: 07/07/09 10:53:58 AM |
Age 42, GA |
I was hoping he would prove me wrong in what I thought would happen as he spoke to the Muslims. But he proved my convictions right. Jesus said He did not come to bring Peace BUT a SWORD!
We are to expose the unfruitful works of darkness...Thanks for the Open letter!
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Amen and Amen!
| Posted On: 07/07/09 10:45:14 AM |
Age 58, FL |
Another opportunity to share the Gospel missed by the so-called pastor of the country. Pastor Warren's message is "Let's play nice together." The Gospel message is "Repent and be saved." Our country is dying, and it is for lack of men who will stand in the pulpit and boldly preach the unabridged Truth that Jesus Christ is Lord and is the only Way, Truth and Life. Thank you for your honest evaluation of the drivel that Pastor Warren continues to pass to so many people. God have mercy on him.
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Matthew 18
| Posted On: 07/07/09 10:41:06 AM |
Age 45, FM |
Dear Jan,
I applaud your passion for the spread of the Gospel and thank you for reminding us all of the priority of our mission here on earth: Make Disciples!
However, as it seems is often the case with my brothers & sisters at world view times, I wonder if you've ever taken the time to talk with Rick about his strategy in such events as the one about which you wrote. Though I don't agree with everything Rick says and does, I know no one who has a greater passion for lost souls than Rick. Not only did he start and lead a church for almost 30 years now that has seen tens of thousands come to Christ, but he has helped thousans of pastors and church leaders understand how to strategically build Bible-believing congregations that reach out to their neighbors in order to lead them to Christ.
Now I know that some would say that Rick preaches a "Gospel-lite". Hank Hanegraff(sp?), radio's "Bible Answer Man" once felt the same way... until he went to Saddleback himself to look at and listen to what they were doing. After having gone in person, he found that Rick and his "PD" strategy for doing church was biblically solid, and, if my memory doesn't fail me, retracted his previous negative comments.
I'm reminded of two scriptures that I'd encourage us to remember: Mt. 10:16- "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves:be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
The other is Mt. 18:15ff where Jesus said that if we're offended by our brother, we should go TO him, not talk/write ABOUT him. Your open letter seems like it might be an attempt to do the latter without doing the former. If you've attempted to talk with Rick about the "issues" you have with him, please forgive my assumptions (though it would have been good to include that info in your letter).
In closing, may God be glorified in all this, and if Rick rebelled against God, may God's justice and mercy be poured out on him (and all of us). And please know, again, that I appreciate your fervor for the Gospel and only hope to edify the Body of Christ through this message.
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Finally someone speaking up
| Posted On: 07/07/09 10:27:43 AM |
Age 59, TX |
It is refreshing to know that some are finally taking a stand up for the Word of Christ against the mega church leaders such as Rick Warren. We can see the end times are at the door when we see those so-called leaders compromising with the world to protect their prosperity rather than taking up the cross and following Jesus. www.inchristserviceministries.com
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