Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 02/21/06 03:25:35 AM |
Age 59, OH |
It is no coincidence the courts in the U.S. and the Vatican agree "intelligent design" is not science. This is because ID is not science, contains no science and is a complete fraud. Why purported Christians would support such lies is beyond all understanding. Read the judge's decision in the Dover case. The "defenders of the faith" lied serially to the judge. Behe, the defense expert and proponent of the misinterpretation of the Bible that is creationism, could not define ID. He embarassed himself by testifying blood clotting was irreversibly complex, when it has been shown in many scientific papers it is not. This is all documented in the 139 page ruling in the Dover case. Check it out for yourselves. Not that your cultish slavishness will allow you to change your minds.
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Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 02/07/06 02:10:01 PM |
Age 26, KS |
In reading the posts and replys here, it seems that many people who disagree with the Catholic Church have some misconceptions about the Catholic Church. A common misconception is that Catholics believe their works will save them. I have to admit, growing up I mistakenly placed too much emphasis on my own "works." However God's Holy Scripture tells us CHRIST of course is our savior. As far as Catholic teaching on the subject, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, (an excellent starting point if you want to know what the Church teaches,) teaches that it was Christ's death on the cross which freed us from our sins and opened the gates of Heaven. As with any denomination, I think it is important to make distinctions between what the Catholic Church teaches, and what an individual mistakenly believes. I hope that someday all Christian's could engage in a charitable discussion, in pursuit of Truth. I agree with Greg Krehbiel who writes, "Tremendous progress has been made in ecumenical discussions over the last few years. The Catholic Church and the Lutheran World Federation have signed an incredible agreement on the nature of justification. That progress was made possible by putting aside prejudices about the other partys position and listening carefully to what they were really saying. We need to imitate that example."
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 02/02/06 10:38:04 PM |
Age 45, NC |
no Jesus Christ did NOT found the catholic church. btw the first 15 popes of the CHRISTIAN church were Jews? you must profess Christ as your savior and repent for your sins with your mouth. a baptism is FULL IMMERSION that's why Jesus was immersed in the Jordan river to be baptized. another thing praying to those carved images of the saints, yes even mary, is a SIN "YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME." "YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF A CARVED IMAGE - ANY LIKENESS OF ANYTHING THAT IS IN HEAVEN ABOVE, OR THAT IS IN THE EARTH BENEATH, OR THAT IS IN THE WATER UNDER THE EARTH. YOU SHALL NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM OR SERVE THEM." First two commandments in case you don't know them. don't believe me? read it for yourself, Exodus 20:3-4.
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Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 02/02/06 10:26:33 PM |
Age 45, NC |
As a newly born again Christian and a FORMER catholic i heartily agree with your assessment of the vatican and the catholic religion. sadly, most catholics still adhere to the mistaken belief that you must be baptized catholic and follow certain rules to get to Heaven. just last month, i spoke with a couple of "practicing" catholics and asked them what they would say when God greeted them at the gate to Heaven and asked why He should let them in. they began naming all the things they've done. i pointed out that the ONLY way into Heaven is by believing that Christ is the the risen Son of God and repenting for your sin and asking Christ into your life. they asked me where that was and i told them "in the Bible - Jesus Christ himself said that". they then stated the bible was a nice collection of stories. it's so sad that after all these years catholics still seem to think that all Jews who ever died without being baptized catholic are in hell - i have always pointed out that this means ALL of the disciples of Christ are in hell by this standard. oh yea i'm pretty sure Jesus my messiah was never baptized into the catholic religion.
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Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/30/06 07:55:09 AM |
Age 45, FL |
Darwinian evolution is the foundation of most recent of the "brilliant" efforts of man to free himself from God. IMHO, it was founded for one true purpose, to support the rampant racism of the era. Like his contemporaries, Darwin believed that all of the "savage races of color" were so poorly developed that they hardly even classified as humans. Encyclopediae of the late 19th and early 20th centuries actually listed mankind in order of their evolutionary progress. Virtually all sources defined the negro race as the least developed of men, but the authors of the encyclopediae assigned, with some apparent bias, the title of "most advanced" of men.
The Slavic and Aryan races were among those disputing which was the highest race on the evolutionary ladder. While I would not go so far as to blame evolution alone for the horrors perpetrated by Joseph Stalin and his successors, it was a fundamental element of his Godless doctrine.
The Aryans, on the other hand, did not completely exclude the concept of God from their society, they simply took over all the churches and murdered the true Christians who protested. How many? Evidence at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trial indicates that from 5 to 6 million Christian civilians were murdered, nearly the same number of Jews murdered by the Nazis. Some may not know that the bizarre medical research/torture at Hitler's concentration camps was actually done by immediate "disciples" of Charles Darwin.
The Vatican's interpretive key of the history of life on Earth?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/27/06 05:19:18 PM |
Age 30, MN |
As I requested earlier, please give me an example. This quote you provided cites no example of new genetic information being added through mutation or natural selection... it is just speculation based on the preconceived idea that macro-evolution must be true. I just want one example of mutations & natural selection increasing the amount of genetic information in a given species. Thanks for your time.
- Jason Carlson
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Re: Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/27/06 03:01:21 PM |
Age 52, CA |
Dr. Manyuan Long of the University of Chicago disagrees.
From his website:
" Once a new gene arises in an individual genome in a natural population, how does it spread throughout an entire species to become fixed? And, how does the young gene subsequently evolve? Second, at the level of the genome, how often do new genes originate? If new gene formation is not a rare event, are there any patterns that underlie the process? And, what evolutionary and genetic mechanisms govern any such patterns? I believe that an efficient approach to these questions is to examine young genes because their early processes of origination are directly observable."
Your statement is flatly incorrect.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/27/06 11:28:58 AM |
Age 30, MN |
Jesus is the only source of salvation... not the Catholic Church. We know that because this is what the Bible reveals. And yes it disagrees with what your Pope says, but as my article describes, what your Popes say seems to change on a fairly regular basis. Catholics have no firm basis for faith, it is a faith based on the whims and desires of fallible men who claim to speak for God. Only God speaks for God; and he has spoken to us in scripture. You don't need any fallible man to tell you God's will, you need to hear from God... Sola Scriptura! How do you justify following a Church that cannot get its facts straight? Have you ever studied the history of the Catholic Church and the numerous times they have changed their position on so called "doctrine"? Don't you want a faith that doesn't change? It's not found in any denomination; denominations are of man... If you want a faith that does not change, you need to discover the Jesus and Christianity of Scripture. Only Jesus is the eternal and authoritative word of God! You need to leave the Pope and return to Jesus.
God bless you,
Jason Carlson
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Re: Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/27/06 08:44:17 AM |
Age 45, TX |
You can bet we faithful Catholics will continue to pray that our Evangelical friends see the Truth. The Catholic Church is not just a denomination, it is the Church Jesus Christ founded. People claim that they don't believe in "denominations", but why are there tens of thousands of them? Protestants have their traditions as well, and they do not necessarily come from Scripture. I am a former Evangelical myself but thanks be to God, He led me to the true ark of salvation.
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Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/25/06 10:48:32 PM |
Age 30, MN |
Dear Poster,
First of all, the world is imaginary? Sounds like the Eastern/Hindu doctrine called "maya", which says the world is an illusion. If you're not aware, there are tremendous philosophical problems with this position... we have a good CD lecture available on this topic at our website: www.jude3.com
Secondly, as to where the idea of creation taking place in six 24 hour days comes from? It's found in Genesis 1 & 2 and all throughout scripture. If you'd like to read some good material on this, from both a theological and scientific perspective, I'd encourage you to check out: www.answersingenesis.org... go to "get answers" and then click on "genesis".
God's peace to you,
Jason Carlson
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Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/25/06 04:46:23 PM |
Age 20, OH |
Well, I thought I would pose of few questions that I thought as I read this. I personally don't believe in a physical world, rather an imaginary (for lack of a better term) world which is sustained in all of us by God. But let's say there is a real world and lets say it was created. Where does it say it was created in 6 24 hour days? I've not read that anywhere. We have no idea what days were like, who knows if they were 24, 2000, or 3 hours. Or the term day could have been used in more of a figurative term (such as points in a bulliten-1. creation of light and so on). I don't know, but I think claiming we can be sure it was six literal days (was there even an idea of days back then? Especially with no light or earth's orbit, and who says our days are the same as God's days, does He really base his calendar off of earth's orbit?) consisting of 24 hours. I believe God could have done it in an instant if He wanted to and that how long it took Him is not important (for that matter it really isn't THAT important how He created it). I think what is the important thing is that He did create it, everything else seems a little pointless. Is God any less great if He used evolution than if He actually created it? And isn't it possible (the Bible being a great literary work) that the Bible would incorporate literary tools such as metaphor and such. I don't know, just some thoughts.
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Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/25/06 07:28:44 AM |
Age 63, IA |
Creationists do not disagree with micro-evolution ( adaptation ) since since the information to make minor changes is already within the species.
Mutations almost always are negative to the species.
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Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/25/06 12:29:21 AM |
Age 30, MN |
Amen Porter! My thoughts exactly... Let's keep praying for our Catholic friends to see the truth.
Jason Carlson
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Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/24/06 11:56:47 PM |
Age 50, GA |
The feedback writer takes offense to the critical stance taken by the author, regarding the doctrine of the catholic church. The association with a denomination, rather than with Christ, is the real problem. There is no chapter on denominations in my copy. You should take offense to the false teachings, and not worry about some extra-biblical affiliation. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life", not some bloated phariseeical organization, filled with traditions that confuse, distort, and overshadow the pure gospel. Whether it be catholic, episcopalian, or whatever. You need to ask yourself when Christ comes back, is He coming to Rome, or Jerusalem? Lose the denominational label, I did, and follow Him.
Yours in Christ,
Porter
+++
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Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/24/06 09:20:31 PM |
Age 30, MN |
I have not confused anything. Mutations may sometimes be beneficial (although typically they are not), but even when they are beneficial (ex. the bird's tongue you referenced), mutations never result in any positive increase in genetic information. To go from particles to people requires massive amounts of new genetic information... natural selection and mutations cannot account for new genetic information; they simply sort, remove, or select pre-existing genetic information. If you maintain otherwise, please inform me of any example of a mutation or natural selection increasing genetic information in a given species... not new features or traits, but new genetic material that previously was not in their genetic make-up.
Thanks for your comments,
Jason Carlson
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Re: Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/24/06 12:11:13 PM |
Age 26, KS |
I am a Catholic, and a proponent of intelligent design. However, I hold this as a matter of faith (or even one could hold discover this truth philosophically speaking.) Any faithful Catholic would of course support the notion that God (being an intellegent being) created the world. St. Thomas Aquinas (the profound Catholic monk) wrote about "intelligent design" centuries before the protestant reformation. I am disappointed that you used this article as an opertunity to bash Catholics, and detract from unity amongst Christians. The tone of your article tells me that as a faithful Catholic, I am not welcome here. There are appropriate forums and methods for discussing the very real, and very significant differences between Evengelicals, and Catholics. It does not seem like you are interested in doing so in a constructive or charitable manner.
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Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/24/06 10:36:40 AM |
Age 23, MS |
I believe the author has confused natural selection with genetic mutation. Mutations causes the change in an organism while selection drives survival and reproduction. For example, a mutation may give a bird a longer tongue that allows it to reach deeper into flowers. Because the bird can access more food, it is more likely to survive and pass on the longer tongue to its descendents. Few creationists disagree with natural selection, but they do have problems with changes leading to a divergence between kinds, though what constitutes a kind is not well defined. Personally, I do not see how micro-evolution could not lead to macro-evolution over enough time.
Secondly, the Vatican and theistic evolutionists obviously believe in a designer, yet they disagree with Intelligent Design, which postulates that God's intervention has been detected by science. Very few scientists agree with ID, but this result does not mean that they automatically deny God's existence or control. They merely say such is beyond humanity's ability to detect in the sciences.
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Re: The Vatican Criticizes Intelligent Design: Why I Cant Take Them Seriously & Other Thoughts
| Posted On: 01/21/06 10:10:29 AM |
Age 51, VA |
Well Said! The ecumenical desire by many Christians to sidle up to the Catholic Church is something that needs to be continually opposed. Even Billy Graham invites people to "find Jesus" in the Catholic Chruch. The Catholic Church teaches a false Christ and a false gospel. The Bible says this is anathema. The Bible tells us that Jesus is the author of creation. To ascribe the existance of the universe to "evolution" is denying the handiwork of Jesus himself.
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