LET THERE BE LIGHT
| Posted On: 11/26/08 09:14:29 AM |
Age 65, OH |
Hi Jim, I sure did not mean to imply in any way that the light referred to in Genesis was God or spiritual light. The whole account is speaking of the physical creation. My point was that God uses the word create only three times when He creates something from nothing. After God created all the matter and energy in the beginning, then He formed the matter into the sun when He said, "let there be light" Lou Newton
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IN THE BEGINNING
| Posted On: 11/24/08 04:32:44 PM |
Age 65, OH |
Jim, The verse,"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" is a statement of order. Order has to do with the timing of the event and IN THE BEGINNING tells us when the heavens and earth were created. Can you list one material thing that is outside of the heavens and the earth. The heavens and the earth would include everything that is made of matter, would it not. So God is telling us that all matter was created IN THE BEGINNING. Lou
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Hi Lou
| Posted On: 11/22/08 02:48:44 PM |
Age 40, NH |
Lou,
You are correct that Genesis doesn't say in v3 that He created the light. Of course, if God is light and this was refering to God's being shining as light, He wouldn't have mentioned it at all because the light would have been there already. Logic follows that He created light at that point within the universe. In fact it must be actual light in the physical universe because God separated the light from the darkness (what would the darkness be if God was the light?). If His light was what is mentioned in v3 then He never would have said anything about, "let there be" because it would have already been there.
Unless there is evidence to change the contextual meaning of, "let there be" or "let there appear" it would naturally mean creation (as in the type it becomes) during a creation account. There is no contextual reason to believe that God saying, "let there appear" (or words to that effect) to mean anything less than creation of the type of celestial body it would become.
Psalm 33.6 specifically says that God spoke the heavens and Earth into existence so saying, "let there be" seems to show that God created the heavens and the Earth and all contained within.
Grace and Peace,
Jim
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IN THE BEGINNING
| Posted On: 11/21/08 12:50:24 PM |
Age 65, OH |
Jim, you say, "verse 1 of Genesis 1 is a statement of creation, not statement of order of creation". But verse one starts out IN THE BEGINNING God created the heavens and the earth. The verse certainly includes the order or the time of the creation of the heavens and the earth, for it was IN THE BEGINNING. In the beginning is about the time or order. Lou
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GOD HAS NO BEGINNING OR END
| Posted On: 11/20/08 12:33:43 PM |
Age 65, OH |
Thank you for your very kind reply. Please read my reply above titled "wrong words" to see how the sun had to be created "In the beginning" as God said. Space is not "nothing' but "space-time" is something and part of the creation as Einstein discovered. One of the foundational laws of the universe which God established is the conservation of matter and energy. Man can not break this law of God, and God follows His own laws. You say, "That issue is not so important as the source of light. The shekinah glory of God could very easily have been a source of light" This is NOT possible dear friend. What did God say, LET THERE BE LIGHT, AND THERE WAS LIGHT. Are you agreeing with the atheist who says that God created Himself. There was a time when there was no light in this solar system, for God says Darkness was over the surface of the deep. But God said, Let there be light, and there was light. There is a very important reason God only uses the word create three places in Gen 1. we can look in the book and see that God says "let the land produce plants". And later He says Let the plants produce seed after their kind. What kind of plants do we have now that came from these seeds. These plants need the light of the sun, the soil of the earth, and water to live. We have the same "kind" of plants now as there was then. I do not get my doctrine from science. All of my doctrine comes from what the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus shows me in the scripture. It is the Holy Scriptures that agree with the creation that God created. Why is the church in this nation in a sorry state. It is the same as when Jesus came to Israel. The leaders of the church are teaching the doctrine of men and not the truths of God. God tells us that the creation declares the glory of God. But some leaders of the church would have us believe that the creation is evil. The creation is from God and not from science. Many of the scientist says that the scriptures are not true. But the scriptures are exactly true, every jot and tittle, as Jesus said. The creation and the Scriptures agree. Lou Newton
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WRONG WORDS
| Posted On: 11/20/08 11:38:47 AM |
Age 65, OH |
Hi Jim. You are correct when you say that Gen 1:1 is a statement of CREATION. (Please read my reply above, The three acts of creation) But you change the words that God spoke when you say that verse 3 & 14 are statements of creation. God never uses the word CREATE in verse 3 or 14. God says LET THERE BE LIGHT. God does not say that He created light in verse three. When God uses the word create, he is saying that he created something from nothing, or He creates something that did not exist before. When God says "let there be" he is speaking of making something from something else that already exists. God's laws are eternal and never change. God established His law of conservation of energy and matter "In the beginning". Man has discovered this law of God and can NOT break this law. Man can not create matter or energy OR man can not destroy matter or energy. We can change matter into energy and change energy into matter but we can not create or destroy either. God does not break His own laws. He has never created or destroyed matter or energy after THE BEGINNING. Light has to have a source of matter to come from. To this very day, when men see light they look for a source. Man has never found light that does not have a source. We have found sources of light that are 14 billion light years away. When God said LET THERE BE LIGHT, there was already a source for this light, but there was no light coming from this source. The Holy Scriptures are a very reliable source of information. But the "creation" of God is also a very reliable source of information. These two sources do not contradict one another but compliment each other. God never says that He created the sun in verse 14, but he says LET THERE BE. Some translations even say "let them appear". The sun is part of the heavens, is it not. When God says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth"; God is not incomplete or inaccurate in any way. The sun is part of the heavens. We look into the heavens today and see solar systems forming before our very eyes. These new systems are not being created, but are forming out of the matter that God created "in the beginning". Man has found over 300 hundred other planets that are not in our solar system. Our system was the same and formed out the matter that God created "in the beginning". When the sun first started to form the earth was nothing but dust that was around the sun and so was without form. The earth was nothing but dust. But as the sun formed and became more and more compact by the force of gravity, hydrogen fusion started when God said, "let there be light". The sun was the thing that the solar system formed around. God has left us other solar systems that are in all stages of formation and we can look and see how they are forming right before our very eyes. The sun forms first because as God says, "The natural is a sign of the spiritual". We can look in Luke 1: 78because of the tender mercy of our God,
by which the RISING SUN will come to us from heaven
79to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace." Of course we can all see that God is calling Jesus a rising sun. The sun is symbol of the Lord Jesus in our solar system. Everything orbits around the sun (son). The sun is the only source of light. there can not be life without the sun ( son) and there can not be life in any solar system that has mare than one sun. The light from the sun had to be first. The land could not produce plants without the light of the sun. The light from the sun brought life and then the sun appeared in the sky when the solar wind blew away all the remaining dust. Lou Newton
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THREE ACTS OF CREATION
| Posted On: 11/20/08 09:55:29 AM |
Age 65, OH |
Thank you for your very kind reply. Gen 1:1 is not a summary statement but it is an opening statement and there is a important difference in these two things. "IN THE BEGINNING GOD" are four of the most important words in the scriptures. God tells us that HE was there in the beginning and none of us were. IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED - Here is the 1st act of creation and it means that God created the whole universe OUT OF NOTHING, for God goes on to tell us "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". The heavens and the earth would include the whole universe, or everything that is physical. Tell me what is not in the heavens or the earth that physically exists. In this 1st act of creation God created all of the matter and energy that makes up the physical universe. God has also said that the heavens declare His glory and man has looked to the heavens, and God has been glorified by this search. Atheists have always said that the universe DID NOT have a beginning but was eternal. They fought against the big bang theory with much zeal because it said that the universe had a beginning as the scriptures said. But now the big bang theory is the most tested and proven scientific theory in all of science. God promises man that if he searches for truth he will find truth. Some men searched for truth and God fulfilled His promise and showed these men the truth. They found that all the matter and energy in the whole universe was created IN THE BEGINNING just as God had said. When we argue against the big bang we are taking up the cause of the atheist and their argument. The word CREATE is only used in Gen 1 three places. It is used to tell us that God created something from nothing. There are two more acts of creation in Genesis. The 2nd act of creation is when God created the soul or the emotions, will and intellect. Fish and snakes do not have souls, but dogs and cats do. This is why we have closer fellowship with these animals that have souls. The soul is not physical but can be eternal. But the third act of creation is when God created man and breathed the breath of life into him. Man is the only part of the creation that has a spirit like God. This is why people who seek the fellowship of animals over other men, they are left wanting, animals have no spirit. Man can only find fulfillment by having fellowship with God, for man has a spirit the same as God. The word CREATE is only used three places in Genesis 1 and there were only three acts of creation. To say different is adding to what God has said. God manifests Himself in three ways, The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit and there were three acts of creation and man was created as the only three part being. There was nothing created outside of these three acts of creation. No man can point to any other time God used the word create in Gen 1. All the other things come into being by these three acts. God does not use the word create for any of the other things. God says "Let there be" or "let the land produce" and all other things come forth out of the these three acts of creation. Please read my answers to the others below for more answers to your questions. Lou Newton
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Purpose of initial light
| Posted On: 11/19/08 04:34:51 PM |
Age 52, VA |
Genesis 1:1 is a summary statement. The remainder of the chapter is a day by day account of the creative acts.
You don't need the sun to have day and night ... only need a "light source". And that was created on Day 1. This was to provide for 24 hour days. The sun then assumed the role of light source upon it's creation on Day 4.
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Wrong Order
| Posted On: 11/19/08 01:06:46 PM |
Age 40, NH |
verse 1 of Genesis 1 is a statement of creation, not statement of order of creation. Verse 2 mentions the Earth and then verse 3 mentions the light being created, not the sun. The sun wasn't created until verse 14, after the Earth being formless and void and then having vegetation and such started by God. The formless and void Earth is mentioned on day one of creation and the sun isn't mentioned as being created until day three.
Although I don't believe that solar days are meant in the Genesis 1 account (unlike Ray Comfort), your critique of this short column is not accurate nor is it biblical Lou.
Grace and Peace,
Jim
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Not Quite Biblically Accurate
| Posted On: 11/19/08 11:38:44 AM |
Age 48, AL |
With all due respect, Lou, when Genesis 1:1 indicates that God created the heavens and the earth, the word "heavens" typically referred to the space, the universe, the volume, not necessarily all things in that space. Thus, the sun is not indicated to be created in the beginning. If you read Genesis 1:14 - 19 you will notice that the sun and moon were "made" on day 4, not day 1. He also made the stars on day 4. Arguments have been made by some that all those heavenly bodies were created earlier, but that is not what the Bible says, only what man has determined since man believes he knows more than God. In fact, the Bible is clear that on day 4 God made the sun, moon and stars. This would have been AFTER the earth was made. The formless earth, if we plainly read Scripture, was simply without detail. After that point, God established form to the formless sphere by separating the waters on the earth from the atmosphere on day 2. On day 3 He caused dry land to rise from the waters, shaping the earth's surface.
As far as establishing light, you are right that Scripture does not require light on the earth; yet it does not prevent it either. That issue is not so important as the source of light. The shekinah glory of God could very easily have been a source of light; plus, we have no requirement that the light comes from a single point as the "skeptic" suggests, even though night and day were established. Even today, during certain seasons, night and day are nearly the same visually (North Pole during summer), yet we still refer to them as night and day.
Otherwise, I would mostly agree with your clarifications of what Ray was trying to say. He could have answered them better.
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SINCE IT'S CREATION, THE EARTH HAS ALWAYS WENT AROUND THE SUN
| Posted On: 11/18/08 10:27:29 PM |
Age 65, OH |
Ray, I do not think that you answered these very well. 1- God is spiritual Light and he created physical light for our solar system when he caused the sun to start nuclear fission. 2- God did not create Himself, for it was physical light that He created and God was spiritual light. God has no beginning and no end. 3-We still call it moonlight do we not. Even though the moon reflects the light of the sun, it is still alight in the night sky. 4- God is never in the dark, for he is the light of heaven. God did not say that he created light on the earth before the sun was created. Look at the first verse, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Look up in the heavens and do you see the sun. All of the matter of the universe was created IN THE BEGINNING. 5-The sun was created BEFORE the earth had any form. The sun was created in the beginning and the earth was WITHOUT FORM. The matter that formed the earth was going around the sun before the earth formed. 6-Again, God is spiritual light and the sun gives off physical light. 7- A ridiculous question, God created all light in all the wavelengths. Lou Newton
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#7, certain wavelengths?
| Posted On: 11/18/08 10:01:54 AM |
Age 36, TX |
I'm not sure what is meant by that question, but God created the entire electromagnetic spectrum... All frequencies. Our eyes only see a tiny portion of that radiation, one "octave" perceived as various colors. We can detect with technology all other frequencies (infared, x-ray, gamma, ultraviolet, radio, etc.) All these frequencies are expelled by the sun too, some more than others obviously, so unless the sceptic meant something else, that question is moot.
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