Being Right Doesn't Make You Righteous
| Posted On: 10/03/08 02:44:54 PM |
Age 46, AL |
You, and the Kingdom, gain nothing by making a public crticisim of people who chose grace over doctrine.
Everything you said is entirely correct.
However ...
When the Peter and the disciples were wrong, Jesus corrected them, then said, "Let Us Be Going" or "Tell Peter" or some such. He did not drag out their errors in front of the Romans or the Pharisees.
Well, 'nuff said ... Let's move on. We have too much work to do to dwell on this any longer.
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SUPER NATURAL
| Posted On: 09/08/08 01:02:54 PM |
Age 64, OH |
Well said PWG. Look at the word SUPERNATURAL. It does not mean against nature but it means SUPER NATURE. It is God working through His own natural laws that He created. We are healed NATUALLY. But when God gets personally involved in our healing it is SUPER NATURAL. Your friend Lou
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not much to say
| Posted On: 09/08/08 06:35:32 AM |
Age 56, NJ |
The fake apostles annointed a fake prophet only because they wanted to show they had the authority as apostles. They wanted to be in charge as usual.They didn't want to take a back seat in the movement they started. Bentley put a swirve in their grandiose plans. They had to prove they had the power to send him forth and Bentley needed them. The blind following the blind.
The bible is so right when it predicted: Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
But these apostles will still have their ministries although it is easy to see their heresy. They have their sheep who will always believe emotions as a substitute for faith. It gives opportunity for their pride. Afterall, they can prove they are better christians by their ministry gifts.
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Helpful link
| Posted On: 09/08/08 02:39:10 AM |
Age 54, VA |
Here's a link that will help you out.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/combating_charismatic_theology.htm
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Maybe
| Posted On: 09/07/08 12:49:52 PM |
Age 40, NH |
Of course, one must be able to accept the cessationist viewpoint which is based on history and not Scripture in order to be, "inoculated."
Just because there are charlatans that doesn't mean there are no miraculous gifts. The same problem has happened throughout Scripture including with those around the apostles.
Grace and Peace,
Jim
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Sad: baby and bath-water syndrome
| Posted On: 09/07/08 10:43:08 AM |
Age 57, OR |
You have your view, perhaps in part due to the nonsense you have seen.
I have seen things occur in what we would term the "supernatural" realm. Cessationist doctrines are just as faulty as the false stuff in this article. But these are just words, and maybe do not affect any outcome that is designed by our Lord Jesus. What we call supernatural probably has no meaning to the Lord. What the Lord does, where when and how are up to HIM. He has no bounds and is not confined by our mere terms such as "natural" and "supernatural". To the Lord, maybe what is, IS and what is not IS NOT. For He made all that is out of what is not. Therefore, to contend with him about false spirituality (the article above) and to have the "cessationist" dogma may be terribly close together in error and might be considered to be different branches of the same heresy. PGW
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False Prophets
| Posted On: 09/06/08 04:19:18 PM |
Age 46, AK |
Amen to the above post on seeking
the giver not the gifts. If believers
were mature in the Word and used it
as a plumb line for all things, these
messes would not happen as often.
These "leaders" are rooted in pride.
Their self appointments as apostles
and prophets through what they try to
teach as a restoration for these offices for this day is false.
God appointed these to the Church
of Jesus Christ, and they have not
gone anywhere nor did they cease
to exist throughout church history.
Man always has to build a platform
of self because of pride.
To the lady with cessationist views:
I too was raised in a church that
taught cessation. But when I studied
Scripture I could not deny that God
does not change. Jesus, the same yesterday,
today and forever. His Word changes
not. His ways change not. God still speaks
to us by His Word, Written and yes verbally.
To say that anyone who hears from the Lord
is a false prophet is to deny God's character and our own walk with Him.
God's Word is truth whether He speaks
audibly to someone are in the Bible.
The two will never contradict one another.
When Christ baptized me in His Holy
Spirit at a young age through asking
and seeking Him alone, I can't deny
that the gifts are ALL GOOD, and come
from God and were given to the Body
of Christ until He shall return. Only
then shall they cease WHEN WE ARE
FACE TO FACE AND WILL KNOW AS WE ARE
KNOWN. Read Corinthians 13 in proper
context.
We can't edit God's Word to fit our
personal levels of comfort or personal
beliefs. We must have the FULL counsel
of God's Word to function as Christ
intended the Body.
We can't deny that the spirtual gifts
of Corinthians 14 stopped but the
other 18 gifts listed in Scripture are
still valid--gifts of help, hospitality,
giving, administration etc.........I believe there are 27 gifts listed in total.
And we must all remember that the Spirit
of prophecy is the testimony of Jesus
Christ foremost. Again all gifts of God
are good and I personally want all that
He has to give. If someone hands you
a pretty wrapped package and you instead
throw it aside without opening it, that
is your loss.
Love is the better thing of course.
It is a fruit of the Spirit, and without
it, the gifts are meaningless.
What we don't need are all these
false prophets and evangelist who
say they have some annointing that
the rest of the brethren don't and
only they can impart it to us.
Scripture tells us that we who believe
on Christ have all been anointed by
His Spirt and all have access to Truth
and revelation and knowledge of Christ,
God and His Word.
Marsha, good rebuttal on all the single
prophecies that were given by these
"apostles" over Bentley. You exposed
error from each and that they were spoken
of the flesh and not the Spirit.
I wonder who besides Dutch Sheets will
be humble enough to seek forgiveness from
the Body of Christ? But then again, most
have bought into their false doctrine and
may not ever discern their errors. Some
will continue to spin all this as "an
attack of the enemy on Todd". Standard
charismatic theme instead of calling sin
out. Resist the devil and HE WILL FLEE.
Dr. Lind Sio
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WHO WOULD FOLLOW A GOD WHO DOES NOT EVEN SPEAK TO THEM
| Posted On: 09/04/08 08:14:20 PM |
Age 64, OH |
The fact that there are many who claim to hear from God and do not is no evidence that no one hears from God. You can give your opinion but it is just that, your opinion. The Lord Jesus healed in the OT and Jesus healed everyone that came to him and confessed their infirmity to Him in the gospels. Show me one scripture that says that Jesus does not heal anymore. I can show you many that says Jesus does. You are the same as the atheist that says I can not know that there is a God just because he does not know God. You say that Jesus does not heal, but Jesus has healed me many, many times. Not only that but Jesus has healed many through our prayers. You are in the same position as the pharisees were; they seen people healed with their own eyes but just said it was Satan and not God. I can not prove to you that Jesus heals anymore than I can prove to the atheist that God exists. Only Jesus Himself can reveal Himself to you. But I know that Jesus has healed me and there is no way you can prove that He did not. But I will wait for you to show me that scripture that says Jesus does not heal anymore. And by the way Jesus walks with me and He talks with me and He tells me I am His own. I trust in no one but Him and your unbelief does not shake my faith in Him one bit. You see just because you do not know, is no evidence that I do not know. Lou
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In other words...
| Posted On: 09/04/08 03:15:21 PM |
Age 49, MT |
In other words, anyone who does not share your "cessationist point of view" is deceived, evil, false... So, what other minor doctrines do you believe that you are so sure about that anyone who disagrees with you is apostate? Man, I sure wouldn't want to cross you or your perfect doctrine.
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TRUE APOSTLES AND FALSE APOSTLES
| Posted On: 09/04/08 09:25:53 AM |
Age 64, OH |
If people would seek the Giver of The Gifts instead of the Gifts this error would not have happened. If they would bother to know The Lord Jesus Christ and seek Him in His Holy Scriptures, His Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth. These men are false prophets and anyone could see that from just listening to them. You quote Peter Wagner as saying; "This commissioning represents a powerful spiritual transaction taking place in the invisible world. With this in mind, I TAKE THE APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY THAT GOD HAS GIVEN ME AND I DEGREE to Todd Bentley:Your power will increase.Your authority will increase.Your favor will increase.Your influence will increase.Your revelation will increase".- This is NOT the prayer of a man lead by The Holy Spirit. This man does not even know the Holy Scriptures. An apostle or a prophet does not act by his will or authority. Peter tells us that no move of God starts by the will of man. But that the prophets of old were carried alone by the Holy Spirit. Wagner speaks here as if he has the authority to speak these things to Bentley and then transfer power to him. Another sign that these men were walking in error is in the 1st part of this article. If the author is correct in her saying that these men thought God was restoring the apostles and prophets to the church, then where in all of scripture can anyone show me that God ever took the apostles and prophets from the church. Many will give all kind of human reasons but SHOW ME SCRIPTURE. There is no more reason to say that God has taken prophets from the church then there is to say that God has taken the Gifts of the Holy Spirit from the church. The gifts of the Holy Spirit have always been available to those who would humble themselves and seek God and then give their life to Him. Any man who speaks for himself does not speak for God. Did not Elisha speak by the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus when he told Naaman how to be healed of leprosy. And did not Jesus heal the man when he did as he was told. Look at Jerusalem before she fell in destruction. There were 200 false prophets that the people thought were true. But The Book only speaks of one man, Jeremiah, that was speaking for God. Was Jeremiah regarded as a true prophet. Even after the prophecies that came through Jeremiah all came true, they still did not listen to him. The words of a true prophet can only be heard, as from God, if the person humbles himself before God and seeks God for the answer. No one can reveal the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus except Jesus Himself. Look at Paul was he widely regarded as an apostle. He is now but he was not then. Paul tells us the signs of an apostle who is sent by The Lord Himself in 1 Cor 4:9For it seems to me that God has put us apostles on display at the end of the procession, like men condemned to die in the arena. We have been made a spectacle to the whole universe, to angels as well as to men. 10We are fools for Christ, but you are so wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are honored, we are dishonored! 11To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless. 12We work hard with our own hands. When we are cursed, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; 13when we are slandered, we answer kindly. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world.-- It would not seem that many men apply for being a true apostle of the Lord Jesus. Lou Newton
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Cessationism is the inoculation
| Posted On: 09/04/08 06:48:32 AM |
Age 54, VA |
Those of us that take a cessationist point of view are not fooled by any of these false prophets. As soon as someone says "God told me," (apart from the Bible)I know I have met a false prophet. The Charismatic movement with its signs and wonders mentality have created fertile ground for all sorts of charlatans and scam artists. OBTW, God still heals. He does it through skilled medical folks and a body that he designed to combat various illnesses and diseases.
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