Lunatic, Liar, Lord
| Posted On: 09/09/08 02:17:32 PM |
Age 43, MN |
I've watched a few of Todd's videos on YouTube and they disgust me. Todd reminds me of someone I knew a few years back. Here's the quick story, and we can learn a lot about Todd from it.
This friend began his career by telling a few little lies that would be almost impossible to disprove. After a period of time, he began to believe his own lies, and he honestly believed he was telling the truth. As soon as he found other people that would believe his lies and "buy into it", he took off running at full speed and rode as far as he could before being "busted" in his many lies.
In the process, he hurt multitudes of unknowing (and undiscerning) people. When he was "found out", he simply faded from view, served some prison time for some offenses (that he honestly believed were NOT wrong), and has not been heard from since.
Sadly, there are always other liars and lunatics ready to jump into the void left by folks like Todd.
I pray that Todd and his wife will find true reconciliation in their marriage, as well as find a deeply grounded Christian mentor to lead them back on the road to redemption.
Who do we follow? Is it the liars, the lunatics, or the Lord? As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
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THE APOSTLES WERE CHARISMATIC
| Posted On: 08/24/08 09:34:06 AM |
Age 64, OH |
We should never seek gifts but we should seek the Giver of all good gifts. If we seek the Giver we will receive The Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The apostles were all "charismatic" in that they had and taught the gifts of The Holy Spirit. Paul tells us in 1 Cor 12 that The Holy Spirit gives us many gifts including the gift of tongues. If some men abuse the truth by calling themselves charismatic, when in fact they are self led or even led by demons, we should not sin also and imply being charismatic is sinful. The sons of God are led by the Spirit. I have seen the gift of being slain in the Spirit done in the flesh by people so many times. It is almost always false and it seems to be a rare event that the Holy Spirit does slay people in The Spirit. But that does not make the Holy Spirit sinful when he sovereignly decides to slay someone in the Spirit. The fake does not glorify The Lord Jesus. The people are loud and boisterous. The preacher who pushes the person over takes glory in the act as if he is some super Christian. The people falling over need to be caught by others so they will not get injured. I have had so called pastors push on my forehead, to try and cause me to fall over. I told one man ,that I would not fall over even if he pushed me all the way to the back of the church. A gift of God can not be started by any man. But all acts of God are started by God. But in spite of all this foolishness, which is very sad, the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus does not shy away from slaying people in The Spirit. I have only seen the true thing happen one time. I was at a church and people went up to the altar for prayer. The preacher's hand turned red for all to see, and to my amazement. Ever person that went up for prayer was slain in The Spirit. No one caught them and no one got injured. No one yelled out as they fell. It was quiet and everyone was reverent. I happened to count the people in the church and 167 people were there. I counted the people that were slain in the Spirit and 167 went up and 167 fell. Even the one girl who was with us, and was very angry at the sight of what was happening; finally went up to show us it was not real. She was knocked over like all the rest. She laid there in silence for some time. Someone covered her with a cover and the preacher went back to preaching. After about ten minutes she got up and took her seat. She did not say another word the rest of the night. - Some say there is no example of this gift in the Holy Scriptures, but they are wrong.- 4Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Who is it you want?" 5"Jesus of Nazareth," they replied. "I am he," Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) 6When Jesus said, "I am he," THEY DREW BACK AND FELL TO THE GROUND. - Notice that ALL fell to the ground. This is not reserved for believers but seems mainly for unbelievers or those who have some doubt . When I was slain in The Spirit, I was doubting that The Holy Spirit would do such a thing. I have absolutely no doubt now, for I know that it was my Savior and Lord who did this to me. Do not let the foolishness of some, cause you to call the Holy Spirit or anything that He does sinful. Lou
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Thanks for a good answer
| Posted On: 08/22/08 08:47:29 AM |
Age 46, ENGLAND |
Thank you. I am firmly of the view that the Bible does not support a cessationist view with regard to healings and other gifts of the Holy Spirit. That said, turning gifts of healing into a 'circus' does not glorify God and gives the Lord's Church a bad name. May the Lord give us all wisdom to live for him amidst the challenges of the 21st Century.
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Author's response to Dan
| Posted On: 08/21/08 03:30:07 PM |
Age 0, OR |
Todd’s teaching on angels is "playing fast and lose with the truth." His "experiences" are decidedly unbiblical. I mean no disrespect, but anyone familiar with Scripture would know that. The fact is, Bentley delves into the realm of the occult. I’ve written about his unbiblical beliefs in a couple of prior articles which are posted on this website. Surely the leaders in the charismatic movement that support Todd know that his alleged experiences are unscriptural, hence they could be demonic. Yet they chose to ignore it. Why? Instead of addressing his false teaching and ridiculous lies the leaders of the “signs and wonders” movement gathered together for a public “Commissioning Service.” Now those who stood over him “prophesying” in the holy Name of god are backpedaling like crazy. Some are even saying they never ordained Todd, they put him under their "alignment" so they could bring him under discipline and "apostolic covering." They endorced this lunacy and now they're trying to get out of it! You'll have to admit that it is beyond bizarre when professing Christians sit idly by while a "healing evangelist" knees a man with stage 4 cancer in the stomach, then pushes him to the ground. Rev. Bentley should have been arrested for battery, but instead recived applause! Todd also lies. For example, during one of his alleged angel visitations he said 2 hotel rooms in Seattle where he was staying “burned to the ground” and “burned to 12 o’clock exactly.” If this actually happened, why is there no public record of the fire? Randy Clark and Bill Johnson are well aware that Bud Press has been investigating Bentley’s hotel fire story. But for some reason they haven’t thought it necessary to respond to Bud’s questions. If they know Todd was telling the truth about the fire, they could clear him! Read about it here… http://www.christianresearchservice.com/ToddBentley7.htm As well, Todd lied about raising people from the dead. When Nightline asked him for proof, he promised he’d provide them with names. He never followed through. Why? Even knowing all this about Todd (and more), Peter Wagner's “apostles” and “prophets” stood on stage and “prophesied” over him, uttering “Thus saith the Lord.” Because they showed such a HUGE lack of discernment many of their followers/supporters say they must be held accountable. It's all over the blogs! Even some of Bentley's staunchest supporters finally realize their folly and have posted an apology on their blogs. May God richly bless them! Grace & peace, Marsha
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As usual...
| Posted On: 08/21/08 12:10:46 PM |
Age 26, OH |
Marsha,
You seem to always get the nay-sayers and judgemental types who know little to nothing about the Charismatic circle's dark side but are more than willing to stand up for a "brother in Christ" who is being maliciously slandered by an internet blogger with an ax to grind.
I find their comments here, and elsewhere that I've come across, as laughable at best and downright dangerous at worst. Dangerous because their lack of understanding could lead them down a rabbit hole of lost faith and possible bodily harm.
My mother's small hyper-charismatic "Worship Center" (Morningstar affiliate; think Rick Joyner) has had more deaths in the last 3 years (and it's full of middle agers, not senior citizens) than I can count on one hand. That's a lot considering it's size and age demographics.
One man killed himself because he went off his bi-polar meds (some "apostle" insinuated that he should) and called the pastor. When the pastor didn't call him back (he keeps his number unlisted because he doesn't want to be called at all hours by the "nuts" in his congregation- I wish I were joking) he shot himself.
Two men died recently of heart failure (off their meds), and my own mother died of breast cancer after feeling like going to the doctor to check out that pesky lump would jeopardize her faith. I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.
So what have we learned?
1) Word of Faith teachings are dangerous because they teach that if you speak a negative word against your health, you'll loose it, causing the undiscerning to ignore their body's warning signs.
2) The hyper charismatic movement is dangerous because it leads the undiscerning to believe that if they fail to get healed, it's their lack of faith, which can cause them (as well as their loved ones) to stumble.
3) It causes the unregenerate to blaspheme the the name of our precious Savior Jesus, when they see what a circus "church" can be. My aunts hate the very idea of God, because my mom was "crazy" to them. Should believers seem peculiar? Sure. But when you're barking, mock giving birth, and unable to stand up or utter a coherent statement, what do you think the unsaved are going to believe?!
Let's judge for ourselves, according to scripture, what the fruit of this "revival" is, and steer clear.
Praying for Shonnah and the kids,
Deborah
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Re: signs and wonder movement
| Posted On: 08/21/08 08:06:59 AM |
Age 40, TN |
I would like to first say that I agree with the "Broad Brush" quoting of scripture and the context that it was quoted. To give an answer of your question as to what is meant by "the signs and wonders movement", there is a great division among the body of Christ in regards to this topic. Man has put labels on things and God's word is our first and final authority. Man has also interpreted things in his own limited understanding. The sides divide up between these two beliefs: (1) signs and wonders as they have happened in the Bible are for today and have never stopped happening, and God's power flows through His children that believe; and (2) signs and wonders are not for today, that the signs and wonders (and other spiritual things like speaking in tongues, healings, etc) all ended with the last apostles. Many books have been written, many sermons have been preached within both scopes of belief. This has been such a cause of division in the Body of Christ, and I will not get into all the arguments and scriptures used for and against each stance. I suggest being like the Bereans and search the Word daily to see if these things are true, and ask the Lord to lead and guide you. He said His Holy Spirit would lead us into ALL truth. I would also suggest that you read information from both camps; those for and against the signs and wonders. May God bless you. Now, for all of us, I pray the eyes of our hearts would be flooded with light, so that we can know and understand the hope to which He has called us and how rich is His glorious inheritance in the saints, His set apart ones. And that may Christ through our faith actually dwell, settle down, abide, and make His permanent home in our hearts. May we be rooted deep in love and founded securely on love, that we may have the power and be strong to apprehend and grasp with all the saints, God's devoted people, the experience of that love, and what is the breadth and length and height and depth of it, that we may really come to know, practically through experience for ourselves, the love of Christ, which far surpasses mere knowledge, without experience, that we may be filled through all our beings unto all the fullness of God, that is that we may have the richest measure of the divine Presence, and become a body wholly filled and flooded with God Himself. Now to Him Who by and in consequence of the action of His power that is at work within us, is able to carry out His purpose and do super abundantly, far over and above all that we dare ask or think, infinitely beyond our highest prayers, desires, thoughts, hopes or dream; To Him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever Amen--so be it. Paul also said that without love we are nothing. Let us truly love God and love our neighbors as ourselves. May we, as His Body, truly learn to walk in love, especially in these days.
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God's unique sense of 'timing' & Justice
| Posted On: 08/21/08 05:05:29 AM |
Age 60, OR |
I'm always impressed by God's unique sense of 'timing' & His prevailing Justice [that does not always appear]. Last night, not more than 30 min. after my wife & I had listened to Bill Johnson's weekly sermon [http://www.ibethel.org/features/sermonoftheweek/index.php], wherein he addressed Todd's ongoing situation that first flared up a couple of yrs ago and a *proper* Christian response to it & the "ministry of the Kingdom", I linked over to christianworldviewnetwork & came across your article. I was not at a loss for words - I was just stunned, saddened, & then deeply grieved. Totally the opposite of what I had just heard--But way past my bedtime. [You would do well to listen & learn]... Concerning God's Anointed "Jerk" Saul: Upon hearing of Saul's death -2 Sam.1:17 "David took up this lament concerning Saul and his son Jonathan, 18 and ordered that the men of Judah be taught this lament of the bow... 19 "Your glory, O Israel, lies slain on your heights. How the mighty have fallen!" 20 "Tell it not in Gath, proclaim it not in the streets of Ashkelon, lest the daughters of the Philistines be glad, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised rejoice." **Do you see it yet, Marsha?** David lamented "Your glory"!!! "Your glory, O Israel, lies slain on your heights". In spite of all the years that Saul had been a total "Jerk" of a King over Israel, David [by the HS] always directly identified Saul as "the anointed", the King of "Israel" over God's "chosen people", a 'figurehead' over a nation to represent the "ministry of the Kingdom' to the world - His Kingdom on the Earth. *"Kiss & Tell"*...Bill Johnson said this TV program has been forever burned into his memory; in Ref. to 'The Jim Baker-Jimmy Swagart scandals'. Peter Jennings said...[loosely paraphrased] We do our own *intensive* research before we present facts to the American people...but in this situation -"you came to us!"...Yes, "Christians" stepping forward to wash their hands of any part of "those people" & then stepping way back into world-approved, sanctimonious, orthodox religiosity. "you came to us" speaks volumes...You say: "For several months Todd Bentley has been encouraged by charismatic leaders to play fast and loose with the truth." What a slanderous statement! Where do you, Marsha West, get your "fast and loose" *information* to make such a seriously uninformed, unfounded allegation??? I listened to Bill Johnson, not 1 month prior, stating that he & several other well recognized pastors felt very concerned for, and a leading to go to Lakeland to pray over Todd that the outpouring for the "ministry of the Kingdom' be not hindered. **"fast and loose with the truth" indeed!** You end your article with this last, [Readers-to-discern-for-themselves] condemning sentence: "Now it would seem the ringmaster has left the circus. Perhaps he has returned to Canada to reconcile with his wife." I don't need to make or join others making accusations or calling names. You have 'made your bed' & have nobody to blame but yourself... "Tell it not in Gath, proclaim it not in the streets of Ashkelon, lest the daughters of the Philistines be glad, lest the daughters of the uncircumcised rejoice. Shame on you Marsha West! Dan RN
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Broad Brush
| Posted On: 08/20/08 05:32:33 PM |
Age 46, MN |
Marsha,
(Marsha wrote: My prayer for Todd is that he will stop listening to charismatic ministers in the Word of Faith and the Signs and Wonders movements.)
I do not know much about Todd Bentley or his ministry, he may be guilty of all these charges, but to paint every charismatic and every christian who actually believes the word of God concerning faith, healing, an prosperity; with the same broad brush is unfair, inaccurate and ignorant. Without the word of faith, one cannot be saved.
ROMANS 10:8-10 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; hat if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Without signs and wonders, all you have is religion. Dead dry religion, no spirit, no power and no difference from any other religion in the world.
1 CORINTHIANS 2:4-5 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Mark 16:17-20 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
The scriptures says to stay away from people who have a form of godliness, but no power. Paul writes that they are always learning, but never able to grasp the truth.
2 Timothy 3:6 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
They have an intellectual gospel. They are philosophers, lawyers and teachers of the law. They cannot understand with their minds the power of the gospel.
1 CORINTHIANS 1:18-21 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Merle
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A Question
| Posted On: 08/19/08 07:11:33 AM |
Age 46, ENGLAND |
Can you please explain what you mean by the phrase, 'The sings and wonders movement'?
Thank you.
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