God's ways beyond our understanding
| Posted On: 06/19/08 08:50:55 AM |
Age 43, AS |
The Purpose of signs and wonders:
We need to start by first establishing the Biblical basis for signs and wonders. The Jews had been under the Mosaic system of worship for some time and had long waited for the promised Messiah. So, when Christ came on the scene and the Apostles preached Jesus to be the Son of God, some proof was necessary so that men, especially the Jews were zealous of signs for proof of anything. You may remember that the scribes and Pharisees wanted a signs from Jesus(Mat.12:38). Jesus' answer to them was " an evil and adulterous seeketh after a signs" (Mat.1:22). It is one thing for God to grant signs, but another to seek after signs in order to believe. The fact that the Jews were zealous of signs is made evident by Paul's words in (1Cor.1:22)where he states, "For the Jews require a signs, and the Greeks seek after wisdom." The Bible tells us the apostles were preaching with signs and wonders. "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?" (Heb.2:3-4). Notice the writer says "them" and not "us". In the days that Christ's apostles preached they only had the O.T. and were preaching that the O.T. ceremonial system had been replaced. They were preaching that Messiah had come and fulfilled all that the Old economy's be backed up by signs and wonders. Now, how do we back up what we are preaching to be true? By the Bible, and nothing else! As Paul said, "Let God be true and every man a liar." (Rom.3:4) Jesus tells us that His "word is truth" (Jn.17:17). We have much to learn from the Bible the Holy Spirit as our teacher he will teach us.
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Response
| Posted On: 06/19/08 08:33:52 AM |
Age 53, AL |
Sir,
Do you know what the disciples did after they were filled with the Spirit? If you don't I'll tell you. They immediately went forth to tell the world about Jesus and His death on the Cross for their sins. Lost souls are God's heart, not barking like a dog. He healed people physically, spiritually and emotionally. If Jesus never performed a miracle would you still believe Him? And have you never heard of someone so convicted of sin they could not even lift their head? Repentance comes first THEN the joy of the Lord. Why so much hype? Isn't Jesus HIMSELF enough for you? Besides, the fruit of the Spirit is what tells a true Christian.
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Todd Bentley is not what he says he is
| Posted On: 06/19/08 07:28:09 AM |
Age 42, GA |
Confirmed by who? That is one thing, proof is another.
Todd Bentley is a fake and is being used by Satan. Christ has warned us to be aware of false prophets as they are here and always have been.
I am a strong believer in Christ and someone like Todd Bentley gives Christianity and Christ a bad name. We need to pray for him and those that follow him that they make wake up one day and realize they are being duped by Satan.
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"the truth you are ignoring"
| Posted On: 06/18/08 09:08:06 PM |
Age 36, TX |
I am very concerned and saddened for pastors like yourself that are being deceived by Todd Bentley and others like him. If your heart is open to Jesus Christ and the living God, He will clearly open your blind eyes to the devil's deception if you ask Him to. Do not think that the enemy is not out to "kill, steal and destroy you" because as a pastor, you are a main target as is the rest of God's true disciples. I would get on your hands and knees quickly and pray and cry out to Jehovah God to reveal to you if you and your wife have been deceived and received a demonic healing. I will pray for you and PLEASE, PLEASE, seek only Jesus Christ and NOTHING ELSE. May the Lord Jesus Christ reveal His Truth to you.
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view on Todd Bently
| Posted On: 06/18/08 08:12:44 PM |
Age 49, MI |
My first question is: What revival is acceptable to this network? And where are all of the headliner articles speaking of this in the positive?
This article is of course a bit deceptive.the only things pointed out are the things that some church goers are unfamiliar with. These things happen often in Spirit filled churches and retreats. Did you ever wonder what pentecost looked like? There was not a rushing wind only the "appearance" of one, what is that? Perhaps people falling and shaking,or looking drunk?
Not once in these critical articles do I see the mention of how often Jesus is exalted, (it is constant) the lamb of God , the power to save, changing the world for Christ, documented healings, and resurrections. How about Todd Bently's testimony, how he was saved from and addictive lifestyle, and upon his encounter with God he fell to his face for 90 hours straight and the presence of God was so strong people fell to their knees when they entered the room. The list of completely scriptural activity goes on.
Concerning Todd Bendtly pushing people down, I have to laugh. Anyone who looks at that as bad is lacking understanding. I look back at a time when a man prayed over me with his hands cupped under my chin, and my entire body felt completely limp, but I refused to fall. I wish he had pushed me down so that my will did not contend with God's at that moment.
Once and for all, not every thing Jesus did (and is still doing) is written down. The world could not contain it all. It must line up with scripture and never contradict. Where in scriptue does it say we must sit in pews? or that Sunday services must last one hour, or anything about youth group or crisis pregnancy ministries or singles ministries. None of these are bad, they just cannot be found in the word. There is messiness in the things of God because of our flesh but we don't resist the move of the Holy Sprit or discount the good because of some bad, that is disceptive, fearful and distructive.
To address the fizzling out question, I seem to recall reading in history a story of a tent revival that caused bars to close down and an entire city to be changed for God, I wonder is that city still having this revival? No, God came and did what he needed to for a season.
One last thing, can we get over this love affair we have with tears? Not that crying is bad I do it often in His presence but if we are commanded in scripture to be Joyful Phil. 3&4 does it not stand to reason that in His presence we would be joyful and perhaps do the unthinkable...laugh?! Isaiah 60:5. Lastly, some of the Pentecostal preachers need to get past the fact that not all powerful moves of God are in the AOG!
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Truly sad..
| Posted On: 06/18/08 05:08:29 PM |
Age 49, NORTHERN IRELAND |
Satan is doing such a wonderful job in this, promoting dissension amongst the body, because those who're being deceived aren't willing to consider the possibility. Our arrogance knows no bounds and those who refuse to view this phenomenon through the lens of scripture, but prefer to base their opinions on experience, are doomed to deception in spades.
Regardless of what some on here consider is happening in these meetings in respect of healings, any sane person watching him in full flow can see he is possessed and certainly not by the HOLY Spirit, because if he is, then I think we can all throw our bibles in the bin because they're not complete given there's not ONE instance of anything remotely similar happening within its pages.
And ironically - you mention how Jesus "wasn't buddy-buddy" with people - yet Bentley talks ad infinitum about how Jesus is buddy-buddy with him, and having long drawn-out conversations with him about all sorts of things. And his obsession with angels - if you read through scripture - in almost every single instance where someone met an angel, they certainly didn't treat them in the manner TB treats his or v.v., and as with the Holy Spirit, all the angels either imparted knowledge of prophecy that was very specific and not just for the person themselves, or pointed the person to Jesus.
All I've seen and heard from Bentley thus far is all personal experiential hype with no true substance in it to provoke anyone to repent, and seek the Lord's face in humility.
May the Lord have mercy on His people to deliver them from deception and heresy.
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Re: How Much Poison Is Needed?
| Posted On: 06/18/08 04:51:36 PM |
Age 50, TX |
Well said brother - amen. Please don't get discouraged...the Scriptures tell us "... let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.", and "...be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord." (Gal 6:9, 1Cor 15:58)
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The Truth You are ingnoring
| Posted On: 06/18/08 03:57:13 PM |
Age 55, NY |
I am a pastor and I love, study, and seek to walk in the word of God. My wife and I attended the meetings in Lakeland about a month ago. What we felt was not the presence of Satan but the presence of a Holy God. In short, my wife, who has had MS for 23 years, was healed of MS, after the speaker that night called her out of 6,000 by name. Now she can do things that she has not been able to do for 23 years. No, there were tricks, they didn't know who we were, we hadn't filled out a card. In fact, when my wife reported the miracle, the staff questioned her extensively to see if it was a real miracle. They are walking in the utmost integrity. There have been myriads of other genuine healings.
I think it's tragic that generally the dispensational escatology that it appears you embrace (that which says miracles are not for today and false prophets will do signs and wonders in the last days) ignores the greater truth that in the last days, God will pour out his spirit. Will the devil really do more miracles in our day than Jesus Christ>
Jesus identified Himself and His Ministry by both what He said and what He did:
(For those who accuse Him from being "of the devil")But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.Luke 11:20
Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?" Jesus answered and said to them, "Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me." Matt 11:3-6
(for those who accused Him of not doing things according the the Word of God, ie heal on the sabbath) the very works that I do — bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.John 5:36
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works , that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."
John 10:37-39
The problem is in America we have a gospel devoid of power and authority and so when someone comes along that proclaims a Jesus who can heal the sick, the blind, the maimed and lame, and cast out demons, they are immediately suspect. Like the people who were in Jesus hometown, who said, "is this not the carpenter's son" and therefore Jesus could do no mighty miracles, we have a gospel that is based on the earthly familiar.
Like you, I have a great concern for moral/social issues in America and how the answer and key is a positive demonstration of marriage as seen in Ephesians 5:22-33. I can clearly see that much of the moral dilemma we face is due to a powerless and empty Christianity here in the US that embraces intellectual proclamation ("wisdom of words") but has little or no “demonstration” (1 Cor. 2), the very thing Paul feared would happen if he tried to present the gospel without power.
People in moral brokenness and physical pain are looking for answers from the church of Jesus Christ. We need to look past our own lack of faith and personal disappointment when it is so obvious that Jesus’ anointing to heal, cast out demons, and release people from captivity is such a part of His ministry in the gospels.
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Re: God's ways beyond our understanding
| Posted On: 06/18/08 02:14:08 PM |
Age 50, TX |
I am so thankful that the Lord has put this thirst in your heart to seek him, and that you have put His word in your heart. I also wholeheartedly agree, sadly, that most of our churches today have become more of a mass-market entertainment center rather than a place to worship Him in Spirit and truth. However, I would caution you about seeking that 'life' you want. First, like the fruits of the Spirit, that life and the wisdom that comes from it is peaceful, not frenetically emotional (James 3:17). Second, that life seeks one mediator, Christ (1Tim 2:5), and not an angel named Emma. Finally, when God is in something he often speaks in the still small voice described in 1Kings 19...not in the loud confusing pandamonium of uncontrolled laughing, shouting, jerking, and gyrating. Jesus said that we will know His people by their fruits. That is not judging, its discernment...there's a very big difference.
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more info
| Posted On: 06/18/08 12:35:38 PM |
Age 19, LA |
I've posted an earlier comment, but I thought I'd add something, since I've watched several of the broadcasts.
I've seen nothing unbiblical in what I saw, some people don't like screaming, crying, running, or whatever, but they probably don't go to black churches (no, i'm not racist).
Some have said that they don't speak of holiness, but, one night, while talking about the need for holiness, they made an altar call for people to throw the porn that they brought with them (the speaker called out images in wallets or something like that) and cigarettes and repentance, as well as tokens of sin (eg. rings from an event of fornication). People went down and threw away stuff that tied them to their sins, bowed on their knees, and wept in repentance.
Also, every day at 10am eastern time, they have training sessions on power evangelism and then hit the streets preaching the gospel. I've seen testimonies of God doing miracles and people being saved.
In another event, one guy who had stage 4 cancer and in constant pain was about to commit suicide. This single father of 2 young children planned to put a 22 to his head and leave a letter telling his kids where to find him. He told a friend of his and he said, "No, lets try prayer." and brought him to the service. The man was healed and saved that night - all pain was gone.
I just thought I'd point out stuff like that, because, especially if you watch the worship services, you will hear Todd and everyone crying out to Jesus Christ, saying all the glory is to Jesus, that Jesus does the miracles, etc. He once retracted an announcement of an unverified resurrection b/c, when they called the person to verify (or whoever they called for verification), it was a lie.
I know people have arguments, but I'm not quick to believe Christians. Why? b/c so often, as soon as a person rises up in the promises of God, other Christians say, "how dare you rise up out of mediocrity! get back down to our boring Christianity. your life convicts me.
It has been well said, "Men create doctrines to justify their failures. If you accept their doctrines, you accept their failures."
I won't claim to know everything, but I do know that the Devil will never tell you to win souls.
Jesus bless you all.
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He's Human
| Posted On: 06/18/08 12:28:47 PM |
Age 58, IN |
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1
True spirits will hold up under Truth.
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Blasphamy Against the Holy Spirit
| Posted On: 06/18/08 11:09:31 AM |
Age 40, IN |
"...that there are several confirmed healings that have taken place in Lakeland and to attribute them to Satan is what Jesus called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit."
I don't think you've done enough study of what "blasphamy of the Holy Spirit" is. Attributing these healings to satan is called discernment and the testing of spirits as the book of James warns us to do. Blasphamy of the Holy Spirit is when we turn our back on God to the point that are hearts are so hard that we will never repent and turn to the Lord. And only God is the judge of our hearts.
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Be discerning
| Posted On: 06/18/08 09:53:20 AM |
Age 50, TX |
Jesus also said "by their fruits ye shall know them". We are also told in Hebrews that we are to have "...our senses exercised to discern [differentiate] both good and evil". That exercising comes from reading, studying, memorizing, and meditating on the word of God. If what Mr. Bentley does or says goes against Scriptural principles, patterns, or precepts then we should call it sin because that's exactly what it is. This act is not judgmental or Pharisaical, its proving what the man said (Rom 12:2, 1Thes 5;21). And, if Mr. Bentley actually believes that he can go with this 'angel' Emma to make an appeal to God then he is in direct violation of Scripture that says there is "...one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1Tim 2:15). I encourage you, since Prov 28:26 says that someone that trusts in his heart is a fool, to not evaluate this man's ministry on your feelings, but simply on how that ministry conforms to the Word of God.
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Re: Legalist and Pharisee
| Posted On: 06/18/08 09:29:07 AM |
Age 50, TX |
This is a sad state of spiritual condition indeed. I suspect part of the reason why no one answered your repeated calls on how to be saved may have been that no one could lead you through the Roman road or any other collection of the verses that describe God's marvelous plan of salvation. Our naion, as spoken of in the article, can not spiritually discern, and will follow just about anyone who will say "here is Christ...there is Christ". We are turned at Satan's will since we rely on emotions and our flesh rather than the Power that transforms our mind "...that we may prove [discern] what is that good, acceptable, and perfect will of God".
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re:Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth
| Posted On: 06/18/08 09:19:42 AM |
Age 50, TX |
George,
While I agree with the vast majority of what you said, and while God may destroy this country, I would caution you not to pass judgement on it. First of all that's not your jurisdiction (nor mine), it is Christ's. Second, it is up to Him when and how he will bring judgement. Our family's prayer is, and will continue to be, that He would indeed lead this country not only to repentance but to spiritual reformation. He is our only hope.
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God's ways beyond our understanding
| Posted On: 06/18/08 07:30:03 AM |
Age 53, KY |
God uses signs, wonders, miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost to confirm His work among his people. (Hebrews 2:4) There is little condemnation of dead churches where you don't even hear laymen pray any more. It's the entertainer talking to the yawning audience, and God help you when your life falls apart, becuase the church has little to offer.
I drove a thousand miles to visit the Pensacola revival. I have attended seminary, and memorized 14 books of the New Testament. I consider myself Biblically literate. Our churches need life, not more scholars whose robes wrap dead men's bones. How God chooses to manifest himself is beyond my understanding, and at times is embarrassing to my puny little world of political correctness. But I will not condemn anyone I have not heard first hand. I attended a two hour sermon by Rob Bell this year. I was deeply moved, and God spoke to me through His word in that service. God stirred by heart in Pensacola. I was healed in a very unconventional outdoor camp meeting service about five years ago, and the speaker was very offensive to 99% of the "audience."
When God begins to confirm the preaching of the Word in your church with signs and wonders and healings, when laymen begin to cry out to God or fall in deep conviction, let me know. I will drive a thousand miles to visit your church too. I am hungry, starving hungry for God, and I was born into a church that is overwhelmed by darkness. What's going on at your church? Basketball, lunch, parties, women's groups, kids camps, hello?
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Add to the warning
| Posted On: 06/18/08 02:12:08 AM |
Age 51, AR |
Greetings. Thank you for your faithfulness to call things as they are ... but how sad it is that with this false prophet so many are either plainly ignorant of Biblical instruction on evaluating a prophet or have we come into such a fullness of God's warning through Paul's letter to Timothy ... "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."
Although body piercings and tattoos from one's sinful past is not a valid point to make in judging the prophet in question here and probably should have been left out ... the greater points are indeed these: Is the man proclaiming the Words of God from that are from the Bible? Is his spirit willingly subjected to the prophets for evaluation? (1 Cor. 14) Is he teaching the saints to draw near to our Heavenly Father?
Here is an uncomplicated way to evaluate if a prophet is genuinely of God or if he is a prophet of falsehood from the devil ... "A True Prophet PROCLAIMS only the Truth of God's Word; PROMOTES the Truth of God's Word as the only standard of living; PROTECTS the people of God with the Truth of God!
If a prophet comes to you and is not performing in these three areas, get away as fast as you can!
Blessings to all.
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I love it !
| Posted On: 06/18/08 12:49:38 AM |
Age 40, JAPAN |
Well done Jan !
Please continue to expose this charasmatic hoax for what it really is.
It amazes me when professing christians (even veterans in the ministry) fall for all this crap.
Anyone with the IQ of a fly can see that this so called revival and all the other false prophets in the church today are about as real as a flying hog.
Keep up the good work !
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A Call To Truth
| Posted On: 06/17/08 11:21:15 PM |
Age 50, CANADA |
I would caution you fellow you are heading down a wide road to destruction .JESUS is the ( PRINCE OF PEACE ) and HE does not author confusion and furthermore if a man claims to be a minister of GOD under the annointing he would not behave like a devil and the Holy Spirit would not make you act like you are possesed .I would challenge you or anyone else including Todd Bently to come visit me face to face I would love the opportunity to cast the Devil out of you .These false revivals are powerless if GOD showed up in these so called churches you would all be struck dead because of the sin in you .Watch the local headline news you will see gays getting married because the church is dead in her sins she sits idle and does nothing while sin increases .The only fire people are going to witness is the judgment of GOD all the elements of the earth will be burned up in a fervent heat .
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Adhere to sound Doctrine
| Posted On: 06/17/08 10:41:43 PM |
Age 42, NM |
We are instructed to endure sound doctrine. Doctrine is important and cannot be dismissed. Bentley's Doctine is not biblical.
I am an Assemblies of God pastor and am appalled at what I see happening. I tried to be "open-minded" and non-judgmental, but I cannot sit on the sidelines anymore. I must preach against this so-called "revival" and protect sheep from this wolf.
The last straw for me was when I watched a video of Bentley. In it he said that he asked God why he had to preach about the angel instead of Jesus, "don't the people just need to believe in Jesus?" In his vision Jesus answered him and said that they already believe in Jesus but they don't believe in the angel and in the supernatural.
The Bible describes many angels. They always have instructions and point people to God. But in Bentley's case Jesus tells people to believe in the angel. That backwards to biblical precedent and heretical.
I'm hungry for genuine revival involving repentance (a word never used in Flakeland), salvation, and transformed lives. But in every biblical account of revival it didn't require a plane ticket. God is right where I am, and right where you are. Let's seek him with a willingness to turn away from every taint of sin and cry out for him to move in our cities. God can meet me right here. God can move in my town.
May the church gain insight and discern the truth regarding false prophet Todd Bentley!
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