"one more thing..."
| Posted On: 07/30/08 02:46:39 PM |
Age 55, NY |
Our greatest spiritual problem in America is not cults, false religions, liberals, immoral people, etc. but so-called Christians who believe the devil is more powerful than God.
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Satan has more power than Jesus!!??
| Posted On: 07/30/08 02:42:31 PM |
Age 55, NY |
The devil will deceive many in the last days (Matthew 24) but also "It shall come to pass in the last days, says God, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh..."(Acts 2:17) I have given tons of scripture in my responses, in exegetical context. What have you given? No accurate scriptures; just "the accuser of the brethren" spirit (Revelation 12:10). Your problem with Todd Bentley is not his message (which is biblical) and ministry but his methods and tatoos. He is seeing people saved, healed,and set free (hmm, sounds like the gospels to me). How many are you seeing saved? Or do you just spend your time judging others falsly? You are in a dangerous place. The chapter you are leaning on also says "the love of many will grow cold"(Matthew 24:12). I think if you will honestly evaluate yourself, this has happened in your heart. Otherwise, the passion and zeal to lovingly serve Christ will leave you little time to attack integral faithful brethren.
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Pro Supporter of Bentley
| Posted On: 06/29/08 03:33:47 PM |
Age 58, FL |
It has been 85 days for me. Oh how jealous you are. Is it that you don't believe the Holy Ghost works this way or that He works in a tatooed man who gives All the Glory to God.
oh ye of little faith. someday i hope you are in church and a man comes in off the street, a bum, who heard about God and wants to give his life for HIm. will you say he smells and God would not want him?
and since when did Jesus remember your sins after you were born again. you put todd's sinful past in your first line of comments.
this is the very reason for desention amongst those who are believers and those that walk the walk.
Take a night and watch Todd. Some of the best sermons yet. And YES he reads his own Bible in the pulpit. I feel he could challenge anyone of you on anything and everything that's from the Scritures.
Lastly, he gives all the glory to Our Lord Jesus Christ. better than you tooting your own horn.
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Pathetic
| Posted On: 06/26/08 10:24:50 PM |
Age 48, MN |
I feel sorry for anyone who sits under such a pathetic excuse for a pastor such as yourself.
Anyone who truly claims any spiritual discernment wouldn't be caught dead at a Todd Bentley demon fest.
You can justify your poor spiritual judgment all you want claiming that God is in all of this, but you, sir, have been deceived and your testimony lacks any credibility. Christ, Himself, warns of those coming with signs and wonders to deceive even the elect. As for your wife's "healing" by the "power of God" this in itself is quite suspect. Satan has more power than you realize and will use any method to shipwreck your faith in Christ.
Apparently he has succeeded.
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Pray for Discernment
| Posted On: 06/22/08 07:22:04 PM |
Age 46, MN |
I turned God tv on a month and a half ago during the middle of that nights programming. I saw a heavily tatooed preacher carrying on about healings. I was shocked and immediately turned the channel. However the next night I tuned back in from the begining of the show, and within the context of the entire show I saw that all glory was given to our Lord Jesus Christ. So I tuned in the next night and the next. I have now copied the last month of services. Each program is unique but God is given the glory for each miracle. Recently on the night of June 19th there was an alter call and many committed their lives to Jesus. Best I can tell after having watched hours and hours is that Todd Bentley is preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and healing the sick in Jesus name.
Watch it for yourself on God tv (direct tv channel #365 7 p.m.) After watching pray for discernment, search scripture for discepencies. A couple of verses that come to mind are 2 Tim 2:14, Matt 5:11
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demonic healing?
| Posted On: 06/21/08 10:46:24 AM |
Age 55, NY |
Thank you for your response and concern. I will not get into a mud slinging contest with you or anyone; this proves nothing, is truly un-Christlike, and distracts from our real purpose.
I will say that I follow Jesus wholeheartedly, not Todd Bentley or any other evangelist. I responded to the above article by using multiple scriptures (in exegetical context) and can use many more, not to prove myself right but to stand for the things I believe God has for us in the church today, for example:
"Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. (John 14:11-13)
To call my wife's healing demonic is being guilty of the same accusing spirit (Revelation 12:9-11) that the Pharisees had when they said Jesus cast out demons by the prince of demons. Remember this, "a man with an argument is always at the mercy of a man with a genuine experience from God", ie. the man in John 9,"
Let me say this further about the above article, as it reflects other articles. I am thankful for those who try to point out where others may be going in the wrong direction by promoting things that are not biblical , but they should do so with honest, integral reporting. In this regard:
Todd Bentley has denied praying to an angel called "Emma", so it leads me to believe Jan Markell heard this from someone else which sounds like gossip and sowing seeds of discord to me.
Lee Grady, in his comments, was not "dissing" the Lakeland meetings outright, as Jan Markell would lead us to presume. He had questions that had been asked of him. Jan, your reporting is "deceptive".
Contrary to Jan Markell's article, the nights we were there, the word was presented in a very clear and powerful fashion.
She mentions "Critic Jacob Prasch", shucks, where is that "gift" listed in the Bible?
Her comments about Toronto and Pensacola having "fizzled out" shows a real lack of understanding of revival history and purpose. By nature, revivals have a time frame, with the purpose of being an attention-getter, taking the church from lukewarm to hot, and, contrary to the comments above, turning people fully to Jesus Christ.
A few closing comments:
Whether lakeland is a genuine worldwide revival is yet to be seen. However, and I repeat, I discerned a deep presence of a Holy God in the meetings.
Whereas, Jan Markell and others can find those considered leaders that are skeptical or even against what is happening in Lakeland, there are several key leaders in the Body of Christ who believe it to be genune.
In most of the responses listed there is little scriptural content; mostly emotional wranglings about deception, how people who believe in the power of God are deceived.
Much of response written above are not intelligent, exegetical presentations but wranglings about deception and true faithfulness tp stand on the word, but what word? Not the Bible, which talks much about Jesus' healing ministry and, through compassion, how He touched people to relieve them of suffering. As a pastor, I want that suffering relieved. What about you?
Enough said.
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Wow! This reads just like the NT!
| Posted On: 06/19/08 03:30:55 PM |
Age 60, OR |
"The Jews therefore strove among themselves..."
All the powerless 'Ministers of Condemnation" are coming out of the woodwork from everywhere!
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? Matthew 12:24-26
Jan, I thought better of you & have even defended you in the past, but you're on your own on this one. Dan RN
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Demonic oxymoron healing???
| Posted On: 06/19/08 03:14:53 PM |
Age 60, OR |
My Bible says:
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17
Even John the 'submerger' had trouble fitting Jesus into his theological 'box'!
I'll go with the credible Pastor & wife, who had MS for 23 years!
I'll go with "go show John again".
I'll go with "believe the works that I do".
May God give you grace and lift the veil from your eyes. Dan RN
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???????????
| Posted On: 06/19/08 02:29:18 PM |
Age 50, OR |
If you are reading the Bible and seeking the knowledge and discernment for what the church will be like in end-times, then you will know that the ONLY revival that will take place is going to be a "counterfeit" revival; manifested by the devil himself. Lying signs and wonders and miracles. True, genuine believers SHOULD NOT be seeking this out or, you run the risk of this "deceptive power" engulfing you. You know God's truth and if you are 100% convicted of this truth, there is NO reason to be chasing after "anti-christ" miracles.
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Just a person
| Posted On: 06/19/08 09:14:59 AM |
Age 38, OH |
I have went to many revivals, siminars, and other christian gatherings. I have met many God chosen and spirit filled people such as: George Verwer, James Dobson, Tim Lahaye, and Joyce Meyer. The number one thing each of these people will tell you is that they are just people that need God. If you feel the need to have to fly to Florida or anywhere else for revival you may be selling God short in your home town. If what is going on in Florida is real that is great but Todd Bently is just another human being. If you are looking for a revival or a change start with a good look in the mirror get hold of your pastor to set up a revival there. We don't need to look any further than our own personal relationship with God. By thinking we need to go some where outside of where God has placed us to do his will for revival is selling God short of his power. In short if you want change and something is missing in your relationship with God he hasn't gone anywhere or changed anything you have. Seek him not others for fullfillment.
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God's ways beyond our understanding
| Posted On: 06/19/08 08:50:55 AM |
Age 43, AS |
The Purpose of signs and wonders:
We need to start by first establishing the Biblical basis for signs and wonders. The Jews had been under the Mosaic system of worship for some time and had long waited for the promised Messiah. So, when Christ came on the scene and the Apostles preached Jesus to be the Son of God, some proof was necessary so that men, especially the Jews were zealous of signs for proof of anything. You may remember that the scribes and Pharisees wanted a signs from Jesus(Mat.12:38). Jesus' answer to them was " an evil and adulterous seeketh after a signs" (Mat.1:22). It is one thing for God to grant signs, but another to seek after signs in order to believe. The fact that the Jews were zealous of signs is made evident by Paul's words in (1Cor.1:22)where he states, "For the Jews require a signs, and the Greeks seek after wisdom." The Bible tells us the apostles were preaching with signs and wonders. "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?" (Heb.2:3-4). Notice the writer says "them" and not "us". In the days that Christ's apostles preached they only had the O.T. and were preaching that the O.T. ceremonial system had been replaced. They were preaching that Messiah had come and fulfilled all that the Old economy's be backed up by signs and wonders. Now, how do we back up what we are preaching to be true? By the Bible, and nothing else! As Paul said, "Let God be true and every man a liar." (Rom.3:4) Jesus tells us that His "word is truth" (Jn.17:17). We have much to learn from the Bible the Holy Spirit as our teacher he will teach us.
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Response
| Posted On: 06/19/08 08:33:52 AM |
Age 53, AL |
Sir,
Do you know what the disciples did after they were filled with the Spirit? If you don't I'll tell you. They immediately went forth to tell the world about Jesus and His death on the Cross for their sins. Lost souls are God's heart, not barking like a dog. He healed people physically, spiritually and emotionally. If Jesus never performed a miracle would you still believe Him? And have you never heard of someone so convicted of sin they could not even lift their head? Repentance comes first THEN the joy of the Lord. Why so much hype? Isn't Jesus HIMSELF enough for you? Besides, the fruit of the Spirit is what tells a true Christian.
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Todd Bentley is not what he says he is
| Posted On: 06/19/08 07:28:09 AM |
Age 42, GA |
Confirmed by who? That is one thing, proof is another.
Todd Bentley is a fake and is being used by Satan. Christ has warned us to be aware of false prophets as they are here and always have been.
I am a strong believer in Christ and someone like Todd Bentley gives Christianity and Christ a bad name. We need to pray for him and those that follow him that they make wake up one day and realize they are being duped by Satan.
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"the truth you are ignoring"
| Posted On: 06/18/08 09:08:06 PM |
Age 36, TX |
I am very concerned and saddened for pastors like yourself that are being deceived by Todd Bentley and others like him. If your heart is open to Jesus Christ and the living God, He will clearly open your blind eyes to the devil's deception if you ask Him to. Do not think that the enemy is not out to "kill, steal and destroy you" because as a pastor, you are a main target as is the rest of God's true disciples. I would get on your hands and knees quickly and pray and cry out to Jehovah God to reveal to you if you and your wife have been deceived and received a demonic healing. I will pray for you and PLEASE, PLEASE, seek only Jesus Christ and NOTHING ELSE. May the Lord Jesus Christ reveal His Truth to you.
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view on Todd Bently
| Posted On: 06/18/08 08:12:44 PM |
Age 49, MI |
My first question is: What revival is acceptable to this network? And where are all of the headliner articles speaking of this in the positive?
This article is of course a bit deceptive.the only things pointed out are the things that some church goers are unfamiliar with. These things happen often in Spirit filled churches and retreats. Did you ever wonder what pentecost looked like? There was not a rushing wind only the "appearance" of one, what is that? Perhaps people falling and shaking,or looking drunk?
Not once in these critical articles do I see the mention of how often Jesus is exalted, (it is constant) the lamb of God , the power to save, changing the world for Christ, documented healings, and resurrections. How about Todd Bently's testimony, how he was saved from and addictive lifestyle, and upon his encounter with God he fell to his face for 90 hours straight and the presence of God was so strong people fell to their knees when they entered the room. The list of completely scriptural activity goes on.
Concerning Todd Bendtly pushing people down, I have to laugh. Anyone who looks at that as bad is lacking understanding. I look back at a time when a man prayed over me with his hands cupped under my chin, and my entire body felt completely limp, but I refused to fall. I wish he had pushed me down so that my will did not contend with God's at that moment.
Once and for all, not every thing Jesus did (and is still doing) is written down. The world could not contain it all. It must line up with scripture and never contradict. Where in scriptue does it say we must sit in pews? or that Sunday services must last one hour, or anything about youth group or crisis pregnancy ministries or singles ministries. None of these are bad, they just cannot be found in the word. There is messiness in the things of God because of our flesh but we don't resist the move of the Holy Sprit or discount the good because of some bad, that is disceptive, fearful and distructive.
To address the fizzling out question, I seem to recall reading in history a story of a tent revival that caused bars to close down and an entire city to be changed for God, I wonder is that city still having this revival? No, God came and did what he needed to for a season.
One last thing, can we get over this love affair we have with tears? Not that crying is bad I do it often in His presence but if we are commanded in scripture to be Joyful Phil. 3&4 does it not stand to reason that in His presence we would be joyful and perhaps do the unthinkable...laugh?! Isaiah 60:5. Lastly, some of the Pentecostal preachers need to get past the fact that not all powerful moves of God are in the AOG!
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Truly sad..
| Posted On: 06/18/08 05:08:29 PM |
Age 49, NORTHERN IRELAND |
Satan is doing such a wonderful job in this, promoting dissension amongst the body, because those who're being deceived aren't willing to consider the possibility. Our arrogance knows no bounds and those who refuse to view this phenomenon through the lens of scripture, but prefer to base their opinions on experience, are doomed to deception in spades.
Regardless of what some on here consider is happening in these meetings in respect of healings, any sane person watching him in full flow can see he is possessed and certainly not by the HOLY Spirit, because if he is, then I think we can all throw our bibles in the bin because they're not complete given there's not ONE instance of anything remotely similar happening within its pages.
And ironically - you mention how Jesus "wasn't buddy-buddy" with people - yet Bentley talks ad infinitum about how Jesus is buddy-buddy with him, and having long drawn-out conversations with him about all sorts of things. And his obsession with angels - if you read through scripture - in almost every single instance where someone met an angel, they certainly didn't treat them in the manner TB treats his or v.v., and as with the Holy Spirit, all the angels either imparted knowledge of prophecy that was very specific and not just for the person themselves, or pointed the person to Jesus.
All I've seen and heard from Bentley thus far is all personal experiential hype with no true substance in it to provoke anyone to repent, and seek the Lord's face in humility.
May the Lord have mercy on His people to deliver them from deception and heresy.
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Re: How Much Poison Is Needed?
| Posted On: 06/18/08 04:51:36 PM |
Age 50, TX |
Well said brother - amen. Please don't get discouraged...the Scriptures tell us "... let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.", and "...be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord." (Gal 6:9, 1Cor 15:58)
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The Truth You are ingnoring
| Posted On: 06/18/08 03:57:13 PM |
Age 55, NY |
I am a pastor and I love, study, and seek to walk in the word of God. My wife and I attended the meetings in Lakeland about a month ago. What we felt was not the presence of Satan but the presence of a Holy God. In short, my wife, who has had MS for 23 years, was healed of MS, after the speaker that night called her out of 6,000 by name. Now she can do things that she has not been able to do for 23 years. No, there were tricks, they didn't know who we were, we hadn't filled out a card. In fact, when my wife reported the miracle, the staff questioned her extensively to see if it was a real miracle. They are walking in the utmost integrity. There have been myriads of other genuine healings.
I think it's tragic that generally the dispensational escatology that it appears you embrace (that which says miracles are not for today and false prophets will do signs and wonders in the last days) ignores the greater truth that in the last days, God will pour out his spirit. Will the devil really do more miracles in our day than Jesus Christ>
Jesus identified Himself and His Ministry by both what He said and what He did:
(For those who accuse Him from being "of the devil")But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you.Luke 11:20
Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?" Jesus answered and said to them, "Go and tell John the things which you hear and see: The blind see and the lame walk; the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear; the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he who is not offended because of Me." Matt 11:3-6
(for those who accused Him of not doing things according the the Word of God, ie heal on the sabbath) the very works that I do — bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.John 5:36
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works , that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him."
John 10:37-39
The problem is in America we have a gospel devoid of power and authority and so when someone comes along that proclaims a Jesus who can heal the sick, the blind, the maimed and lame, and cast out demons, they are immediately suspect. Like the people who were in Jesus hometown, who said, "is this not the carpenter's son" and therefore Jesus could do no mighty miracles, we have a gospel that is based on the earthly familiar.
Like you, I have a great concern for moral/social issues in America and how the answer and key is a positive demonstration of marriage as seen in Ephesians 5:22-33. I can clearly see that much of the moral dilemma we face is due to a powerless and empty Christianity here in the US that embraces intellectual proclamation ("wisdom of words") but has little or no “demonstration” (1 Cor. 2), the very thing Paul feared would happen if he tried to present the gospel without power.
People in moral brokenness and physical pain are looking for answers from the church of Jesus Christ. We need to look past our own lack of faith and personal disappointment when it is so obvious that Jesus’ anointing to heal, cast out demons, and release people from captivity is such a part of His ministry in the gospels.
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Re: God's ways beyond our understanding
| Posted On: 06/18/08 02:14:08 PM |
Age 50, TX |
I am so thankful that the Lord has put this thirst in your heart to seek him, and that you have put His word in your heart. I also wholeheartedly agree, sadly, that most of our churches today have become more of a mass-market entertainment center rather than a place to worship Him in Spirit and truth. However, I would caution you about seeking that 'life' you want. First, like the fruits of the Spirit, that life and the wisdom that comes from it is peaceful, not frenetically emotional (James 3:17). Second, that life seeks one mediator, Christ (1Tim 2:5), and not an angel named Emma. Finally, when God is in something he often speaks in the still small voice described in 1Kings 19...not in the loud confusing pandamonium of uncontrolled laughing, shouting, jerking, and gyrating. Jesus said that we will know His people by their fruits. That is not judging, its discernment...there's a very big difference.
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more info
| Posted On: 06/18/08 12:35:38 PM |
Age 19, LA |
I've posted an earlier comment, but I thought I'd add something, since I've watched several of the broadcasts.
I've seen nothing unbiblical in what I saw, some people don't like screaming, crying, running, or whatever, but they probably don't go to black churches (no, i'm not racist).
Some have said that they don't speak of holiness, but, one night, while talking about the need for holiness, they made an altar call for people to throw the porn that they brought with them (the speaker called out images in wallets or something like that) and cigarettes and repentance, as well as tokens of sin (eg. rings from an event of fornication). People went down and threw away stuff that tied them to their sins, bowed on their knees, and wept in repentance.
Also, every day at 10am eastern time, they have training sessions on power evangelism and then hit the streets preaching the gospel. I've seen testimonies of God doing miracles and people being saved.
In another event, one guy who had stage 4 cancer and in constant pain was about to commit suicide. This single father of 2 young children planned to put a 22 to his head and leave a letter telling his kids where to find him. He told a friend of his and he said, "No, lets try prayer." and brought him to the service. The man was healed and saved that night - all pain was gone.
I just thought I'd point out stuff like that, because, especially if you watch the worship services, you will hear Todd and everyone crying out to Jesus Christ, saying all the glory is to Jesus, that Jesus does the miracles, etc. He once retracted an announcement of an unverified resurrection b/c, when they called the person to verify (or whoever they called for verification), it was a lie.
I know people have arguments, but I'm not quick to believe Christians. Why? b/c so often, as soon as a person rises up in the promises of God, other Christians say, "how dare you rise up out of mediocrity! get back down to our boring Christianity. your life convicts me.
It has been well said, "Men create doctrines to justify their failures. If you accept their doctrines, you accept their failures."
I won't claim to know everything, but I do know that the Devil will never tell you to win souls.
Jesus bless you all.
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