We're Sorry
| Posted On: 04/23/08 08:36:31 PM |
Age 76, NY |
If there's anything we should really be sorry about is the apathy and complacenccy that Christians have concerning maintaining our rights. Schools founded on Christian principles are now secular, all insinuation of anything Christian is disallowed, removal of the 10 commandments, and the exclusive teaching of evolution in our public schools is a tragedy. We have much to be sorry for and it centers around our ineffectiveness with defending our faith. Today, at my Grandson's school was "Gay Day" with posters all over school grounds eliciting tolerance for gays. He is in trouble for tearing the signs down. There is no effort to have "Christian Day" to show tolerance for Christians. What hypocrisy to have a day celebrating a sinful perverted lifestyle but intolerance for one that is Christly. Christians keep fiddlin, while Rome burns! We have cause to be sorry!! Maybe "sorry" should be changed to "shameful'
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One Sorry Church
| Posted On: 04/23/08 07:37:05 PM |
Age 47, WA |
This is exactly what the problem in the American Church is! Pastors do not have the back bone to stand up against sin! Jelly fish, milk toast effeminate hirelings that care not the homosexuals are taking over the whole country and have taken the government! Any true Church of Jesus Christ should never apologize for sin! Jesus never compromised with sin and His true church never will either. The man of God needs to stand in the pupit and attack sin and exalt righteousness period. Warning people of the judgment to come is not "being judgmental" if the pulpits would get fire and preach truth, Gods Law we would see back bone but not until.
Galatians 3:24
So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But now faith that is come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Preach Christ crucified for the sin (homo, abortion) of the world!
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agree
| Posted On: 04/23/08 04:08:30 PM |
Age 47, TX |
I agree. Why should the church apologize for calling sin what it is? We did not define sin - God did that for us. We do not embrace drunkenness, so why should we embrace homosexuality? If you don't feel convicted when you leave a church service, you are probably going to the wrong church.
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Preach Repentance
| Posted On: 04/23/08 04:03:17 PM |
Age 52, OH |
To the writer who says we should be preaching God's love - let's not forget that we are to preach REPENT, FOR THE END IS NEAR. Unless and until a person gets a clear understanding of his position before a Holy God, preaching the love will run the risk of giving him/her false hope. Without repentance, there is no salvation. God does love us - but He has set forth His requirements for individuals to be saved and a true repentance is the first prerequisite. Do we need to be more 'tender' in our approach? Frankly I think we have become TOO tender! We're so afraid we might offend or appear judgemental that we refuse to sound a warning to the unsaved around us. That's not love! Witnessing for Christ is not designed to win you more friends, it is designed to win souls for eternity. We need to be clear that the soul that remains uncleansed from its stain of lies, cheating, theft, adulterous thoughts or actions, homosexuality, murder (including abortion), and all the other sins of a human heart WILL BE DAMNED. Once we sound the warning, only then is it appropriate to share the love. Jonah didn't walk into Ninevah preaching God's love - he preached repentance! And the entire city took heed! Paul didn't mince words, and neither did Peter. Was every individual who heard them saved from the experience? No - but we aren't to worry about the harvest. Our directive is to share the gospel - the WHOLE gospel, not just the love. We need to get our godly backbone in shape and warn those in danger.
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Would Christ have run that headline?
| Posted On: 04/23/08 01:21:19 PM |
Age 60, NEW ZEALAND |
We need to know all the facts here before rushing to judge. Christians can sometimes be too confrontational and quick to take a lofty "I am right and you are wrong" approach. Remember Christ at the well. He didnt rush to criticize. He reached out in love. He didnt compromise Himself but His demeanour was that of a servant, gentle loving and firm.
Sinners of all types are potentially our brothers and sisters and children of God if they respond to the work of Christ. We have no right as those also only here by the grace of God to be loud in judgement.
Lets stop sitting on our high horses of righteousness and 'holier than thou', quoting all the scriptures that condemn and justify our stance and find the ones that speak of love and forgiveness so we are truly the Bride of Christ - people of grace and beauty.
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I missed the heresy
| Posted On: 04/23/08 01:05:25 PM |
Age 58, NC |
I am a conservative pentecostal minister and have great difficulty understanding what is heretical about saying these issues are sinful but come to church and find hope and the truth through repentance. The church has missed opportunity after opportunity to witness to the lost because we are so holy we can't talk to a sinner. I was a sinner, but thank God someone came into my sex and drug filled life and had the love and patience to bring me to the truth of salvation. I guess we should strive to be like Jesus who spent his time with the Pharisees picketing the Roman Baths and condemning those who broke the Law. Wake up,Church, while it is still light and open the walls of your holy sanctuary so the fresh breath of the Holy Soirit can waken you out of your unholy legalism and blow the gospel into the community you judge. Let he who is without sin hold the first picket sign.
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Discern vs judge
| Posted On: 04/23/08 12:57:39 PM |
Age 59, VA |
You say, "The combative stance has shown itself not to work!" So I guess, the fact that Jesus said he came not to bring peace but to bring a sword between sisters and brothers and to set a man at variance against his father and daughter and mother etc..." doesn't fly anymore either! That is what is wrong with the Church today! The Word is forever settled in heaven and we are to dust our feet off and move on, not apologize for the Word, to the person who will open their heart to hear what the Spirit is saying. -Not what they want to hear. The church is filled with a lot of wimps- mostly unsaved- I do believe. What ever happened to taking pleasure in persecutions and afflictions and in distresses for Christ's sake? It is a crying shame that those who call themselves Christians cannot discern the difference between judging a person and hating his sin. We are to discern right from wrong. And that we can do without judging! Homosexuality and abortion are abominations to the Lord. If we cannot declare these truths, we have lost our salt. We are good for nothing. Those that call themselves Christians need to toughen up and pray for a door of utterance that they may be able to speak the Word with boldness, as Paul did. Hell is a reality and no drunkard nor effeminate, no murderer will enter the gates of Heaven without Christ. Let us not apologize but rather evangelize!
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...but by the law
| Posted On: 04/23/08 12:55:29 PM |
Age 24, IA |
I agree that we only come to Christ by understanding ourselves as sinners in need of a savior... but scripture tells us in Romans 7:7: "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. May, I had not known sin but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet." Jesus demonstrated this over and over... he didn't walk up to the woman at the well and say, "Hey, I love you, let's be best friends!" No, he asked her where her husband was-- knowing full well she was an adulterer, breaking the law of God. God gave us His law to show us we need Him! Just a thought. :)
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It's all about love...
| Posted On: 04/23/08 12:35:19 PM |
Age 33, PA |
I think that what this pastor did in offering a humble public apology was completely in line with Scripture. He did not apologize on 'behalf of God', but on behalf of a judgmental mindset that many 'Christian believers' have in respect to how they view unbelievers, and others in the process of deliverance. As the Word of God states in the New Covenant in Christ Jesus, we are known to be the children of God by our love for one another; God is the only judge. While we are to use discernment in respect to our dealings with others (being equally or unequally yoked), we are supposed to love without judgment with 'no respect of persons'; unlike the hypocritcal Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus' day. While this website is informative, at times, I find it upsetting that one would deem themselves to be in the position of judgment and continually berate, belittle, and condemn their Brothers and Sisters in Christ based on their opinion. One must be wary as an Old Testament prophet stated to "touch not (God's) anointed and do His prophets no harm." Preach the Gospel in love and so fulfill the will of God in Christ Jesus for all mankind.
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Oh, nuts!
| Posted On: 04/23/08 12:33:54 PM |
Age 55, TX |
I just saw the fine print. They are Baptist or sort of anyway. Men died defending the truth under the name Baptist and at one time ana-Baptist and I am not ashamed of putting in the bold print versus the fine.
Well, again if you aren't convicted of your doctrine and honored to be among the ranks of martyrs and defenders of liberty then take it off completely not use it in the abbreviation or fine print.
Here is one preacher that is Baptist by conviction and honor and pray to be so until death.
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Oh Brother!!!
| Posted On: 04/23/08 12:29:21 PM |
Age 55, TX |
You can believe the Bible or not, but it says what it says. God is the only one who can pass judgment, or at least righteously, and if He said those things and others are sin then they are sin. Saved or lost can either like it or not but I will not apologize for what He said.
My job is just to preach it, not edit it for itching or rebellious ears. If you can't do that, step out of the pulpit and close that Church's doors.
We are in the world but not of it and guess what, our values are going to clash. If you don't believe the Word, don't preach it or attend church. It is that simple.
Frankly, I am ashamed of them and glad they are not a Baptist church. Not sure the Lord is tickled pink either. Now, if they were arrogant and stupid when preaching the truth then the onus is on them to apologize for the attitude and demeanor but not the message.
May God grant us to be like the Marines and be Semper Fi, do or die!!!
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It's all about love...
| Posted On: 04/23/08 12:28:59 PM |
Age 33, PA |
I think that what this pastor did in offering a humble public apology was completely in line with Scripture. He did not apologize on 'behalf of God', but on behalf of a judgmental mindset that many 'Christian believers' have in respect to how they view unbelievers, and others in the process of deliverance. As the Word of God states in the New Covenant in Christ Jesus, we are known to be the children of God by our love for one another; God is the only judge. While we are to use discernment in respect to our dealings with others (being equally or unequally yoked), we are supposed to love without judgment with 'no respect of persons'; unlike the hypocritcal Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus' day. While this website is informative, at times, I find it upsetting that one would deem themselves to be in the position of judgment and continually berate, belittle, and condemn their Brothers and Sisters in Christ base on their opinion. One must be wary as and Old Testament prophet stated to "touch not (God's) anointed and do His prophets no harm." Preach the Gospel in love and so fulfill the will of God in Christ Jesus for all mankind.
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More than "sorry"
| Posted On: 04/23/08 11:35:57 AM |
Age 54, MI |
I think we need to do more than just "apologize" for the sins of God's people against those who are are not God's heirs, we need to repent because we have not consistently preached the Gospel but instead preached legalism.
Many have been "judgemental" which means beyond redemption or permanently damned. As one who once was damned but is now saved I shudder to think that I would percieve anyone beyond God's reach and would be heretical to say one is, but that is what we do.
While we need to stand firm for the morals, but no law, God's or man's, will bring a man to salvation - that comes only when one sees themself as truly being a sinner and needing a savior.
I say it is good to "apologize" for our sins to others, but I would desire that it be wrapped in the blanket of hope through Christ and Him Crucified.
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Sorry?
| Posted On: 04/23/08 11:25:58 AM |
Age 33, SC |
I wonder what was going through the leadership's minds as they set the course for this action? Did they honestly think this will generate people coming to church without preaching the cross, repentance, and the Law of God? It is a sad time when the church feels that it must say it is sorry.
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Apostacy Upon Us
| Posted On: 04/23/08 11:22:28 AM |
Age 41, WA |
This is another clear indication of the hour in which we live. The bible clearly warns us of a falling away (Apostacy), and it is already here. When a pastor turns his back on the Word of God, he is a heretic and should be avoided. The bible is very clear about murder (Exodus 20:13) and homosexuality (Romans 2:26-28), the bible says they both are wrong. Unfortunately, humanism, new age ideals and political correctness have infiltrated once strong churches and have rotted them from within. Embrace the bible, and reject false teachers. Jesus warned us, Paul warned us, Peter warned us, John warned us and Jude warned us of false teachers and prophets in these last days. Return to God, return to the bible. Try all things, and search the scriptures to see if what your preacher says is true. Wach out brothers and sisters Apostacy is upon us.
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I agree with what I heard
| Posted On: 04/23/08 11:14:26 AM |
Age 50, ND |
I listened to the sermon and unless I missed something, I believe this pastor is right. While we must stand on the Bible and what is says is right and wrong, we must not stand on top of our churches and proclaim to the church that God loves them and expect them to move toward us. We must build bridges to those who are lost without Christ. They are acting authentically, as their father, Satan. Now it is time that we act authentically and go to where they are and proclaim the love of Christ to them. The combative stance has shown itself to not work. Plus, the church in most cases in so infiltrated by the culture, there is little difference. We need to get off our high horses and get out among the lost and proclaim to them the love of Christ. While we do not promote or excuse any sin, (in their lives, and especially not in our lives) we must move towards them with love to win them. It isn't about whose right at this elementary part of the relationship, but it is about showing love and acceptance, so we can bring them to a place to receive the love and forgiveness of Christ. Once they have received Christ, then the Holy Spirit can work in their lives to sanctify them to live out in practical holiness where they already will be positionally. I don't expect lost people to change their behavior or beliefs. They are acting realistically according to their nature. Are we acting realistically according to our new nature?
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One sorry church
| Posted On: 04/23/08 10:35:40 AM |
Age 66, WA |
Not surprised, especiall as the Bible tells us good would be called evil and evil good. They have the "other Jesus" that Paul warned of. Judgement starts in the church, and we are to hold all leaders accountable and follow the laws of G-d and our country in which it was set and built on. I think we all know that Apostasy has to come, and it is here world wide..New age, all religions have thrown out the only gospel and are running to Rome to meet the antichrist. I think us with a brain,, know this is not global warming, it is global warning. and we know the 2000 yrs is up, and our L-rd will rapture the church...John 14 ,,the L-rd speaking,,,why do you call me L-rd? and not obey My Fathers commands. and now we see all doctorine thrown out, mixing all religions as one, humanism, occut and paganism and traditions of men..that G-d said HE hated !! Hanging onto so much of the Constitine paganism,,,never let go..many in Hebrew means millions or uncountable ammount..that will say L-rd, L-rd and HE will say depart from me you men of lawlessness. we are to walk in it, tho we are not under it. it is our loving instruction, just as HE walked,, not according to the world,,,Just like they believe allah is our G-d..NO HE ISN"T..and G-d warned us that the antichrst hated or dislike women that Islam treats worse than cattle. On their webs they say, we smile at their faces and curse them in our hearts..an we can lie for allah,,and we will take over the world,,but people today, are blinded,,how sad..
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This is a suprise?
| Posted On: 04/23/08 10:05:28 AM |
Age 38, MI |
The more I study Christian history, the more I understand the numerous warnings about false teachers. Our established institutions are eventually infiltrated by false teachers. No amount of doctrine or dogma can stop it. In fact dogma seems to speed up the process of going down the wrong path. Jesus gave us a faith that inherently challenges established institutions, but not the way Marx or hippies did. Now teachers like McClaren, who like to challenge establishment, are 'the establishment'. The 'great falling away' is not yet to come, but started in the 5th century and became the RCC. It continues today in men like Hybels and McClaren. Is it coincidence that these two are baby boomers? I am going to spend my whole life cleaning up after the baby boomers.
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God hates sin but...
| Posted On: 04/23/08 09:36:25 AM |
Age 44, TN |
The attached article didn't really give me the impression that pastor Lee was condoning the sinful acts of others. Rather I got the impression that he was trying to apologize for doing a poor job at something most Christians are poor at, "loving the sinner" vs "hating the sin"...myself included. Most Christians have it backwards, we hate the sinner and love the sin.
For all of us, including Mr. Rosebrough, "when's the last time you or I've led either an abortionist or a homosexual to Christ?"
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The Great Falling Away.
| Posted On: 04/23/08 09:25:43 AM |
Age 46, KY |
I once thought people who talked about the end times were being a little over zealous in their interpretation of scripture and modern events. However with more and more pastors espousing heretical teachings and catering to the unrepentant, as has this preacher, I've come to the conclusion they knew/know something I hadn't. Revelations predicted all of this and it is coming to pass before my very eyes, which is unsettling to me as I have two small children I hope to see grown before the end arrives. One other sign to watch for is homosexual marriage. Revelations noted the end times would be very much like the time of Noah just before the great flood and it was during this time, according to a biblical historian I heard speak, and only this time in our entire history that homosexual marriage was condoned and event celebrated..... Until now.
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