HOW MANY ENGISH MEANINGS ARE THERE FOR THE WORD DAY
| Posted On: 06/04/08 04:25:08 PM |
Age 64, OH |
It seems to me that you are saying that only your interpretation is biblical and anyone who thinks different than you has a faith our lack of commitment to Christ. I do not accuse you of the same. Jesus created everything that exists but the word created is only used in Genesis 1 three times. Jesus said he created the heavens and the earth in the beginning. Does not the heavens and the earth include all physical matter and energy. Is not the sun part of the heavens. We look out into space today and see stars forming in this "day". Not meaning 24 hours or an earth day but the common english usage meaning in this age. So all the stars were not formed in the beginning, but all the matter and energy that the laws of nature, created by God, uses to form stars were created in the beginning. Even man is aware of this law of God. That matter or energy can not be created or destroyed. This law was created by God in the beginning and no matter or energy has been created since the beginning. God does not break His own laws. Jesus could not just forgive sin because of His law of justice. Jesus had to pay for the sin for us to be saved. So we know the law of conservation of matter and energy were created by God in the beginning. SO all the matter and energy had to be created in the beginning for He would not break His own law. If you want to deny that stars are being born and also dying yet today then you are simply burying your head in the sand, for this is true. God uses the word day in the scriptures in a lot of different ways. To deny this would only be alack of knowledge or understanding. No man can say that the word day in Genesis 1 is the 24 hour earth day, for God could also have meant it the way He uses the word in other places. How about when God said to Adam, "The day you eat of it you will surly die" DID ADAM DIE WITHIN 24 HOURS or did he live 930 years after that. Look in the scriptures and you will see, Jesus uses the word day in many different ways. The 1st day could not be 24 hours. For it says, " there was morning and there was evening". From morning to evening on this earth is 12 hours not 24. 24 hours is from morning to morning. The scriptures just do not bear out the tradition started by the pope that the creation days are 24 hour days. Many of the early church fathers thought the days were very long days. Lou
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Wrong - NO Evolution Used
| Posted On: 06/03/08 05:40:04 PM |
Age 48, AL |
With all due respect, it seems that you have confused evolution with natural selection which does not produce any molecules to man evolution. In fact, it seems you have not read Genesis 1 fully since it clearly says that God had "the earth produce vegetation", yet it took place in one day. This is not any form of evolution which takes place over millions of years. The translation seems to indicate that the earth produced the vegetation, yet the Hebrew "bara" is basically "from nothing comes something". Since the earth is incapable of creating anything, it is implicit that God did the creating. The fact that the plants reproduce after their kind reinforces God's initial design as well as the fossil record that reveals plants can easily be categorized, again implying various "kinds".
As usual, God told us quite plainly what He did in Scripture, but man allows other men's distorted interpretations to taint his thinking. This is what gives rise to non-Biblical ideas, even distorted attempts to merge science and Scripture. However, when you allow Scripture to reign supreme, the science quite easily conforms to what God's revelation says. Thus, when God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them, it actually means just what it says, including the part about 6 days, not millions or billions of years as evolution presupposes. Science does not require, nor is it consistent with observations, to mandate millions of years. 6,000 years, plus or minus a few, is more than enough time to accomplish all you see today, particularly in light of real scientific observations that are consistent with that time frame. To God be the glory, great things He has done!
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Evolution
| Posted On: 05/06/08 06:40:28 AM |
Age 87, FL |
I can find o reason to give any credence to a theory created by people whose purpose is to discredit their creator. They would have us think He dosen't exist and that they have the ultimate intelegence. In denying the truth, they have come to beleive a lie. Can anyone who who tries to change the creation story tell me where the seven day week came from? Can they tell me what the seventh day sabbath comemorates?
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Evolution is not true but neither is blind faith
| Posted On: 04/19/08 11:43:52 AM |
Age 47, MO |
Friend: You wrote: "If you consider yourself an individual and accept that God granted you the right to explore the world he created with your own mind, research the subject by yourself, and you will discover the truth." This is a good statement and I would encourage you to do the same. However, the problem with your POV and the religious POV is that they are both based on blind ignorance. The truth about our origins are found in Scripture and in proven scientific evidence, not in blind faith and unsubstantiated theories. When we both are honest with ourselves, we will find that the earth is a lot older than Christians want to believe and that micro-evolution is true. We will also find that there MUST be a CREATOR, and that macro-evolution is a leap of faith for those who can't stomach the thought of GOD. John
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Evolution and Survival of the Fittest
| Posted On: 04/18/08 10:22:36 AM |
Age 46, AR |
So if you believe in evolution, then you must know that this comes about because of the natural acts of the survival of the fittest. If this is the case, then, remember, each man (generic term)can do whatever necessary to obtain what he needs and wants and any who opposes him and ends up hurt or dead in the process must remember in those final moments, that it is just a factor of evolution. Only the strong and smart will survive. And please tell me WHY would we want to waste OUR time and OUR resources helping someone else.
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GOD SAYS THE EARTH PRODUCED THE PLANTS
| Posted On: 04/18/08 10:14:29 AM |
Age 64, OH |
Instead of justifying our beliefs we should humble ourselves and ask God to show us His truth. Any man can simply read what God has written in Genesis 1 and see that it seems that God has said that SOME KIND OF EVOLUTION DID TAKE PLACE. Look in the Book and see what God said. Gen 1:11 Then God said, "LET THE LAND PRODUCE VEGETATION: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, ACCORDING TO THEIR VARIOUS KINDS." And it was so. 12 THE LAND PRODUCED VEGETATION: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.-- If we read the whole account we know what God has spoken is true. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth - what does that include, it would seems to include ALL of the physical matter of the universe which would include the matter the sun, moon, plants, animals etc are made of. But then God says let the land produce plants according to their kinds. So God had created all of the atoms that the plants are made of but He than let the earth form those atoms into plants. God is light and there is no life without God. The sun is our source of physical light and there is no life without the light of the sun. For the Bible says the physical is a sign of the spiritual. What kind of plants do we have now. Do most plants grow in a earth day. No they grow over months of earth time. But a 1000 years is as a day to the Lord. The plants all formed in a "day". The 1st day was the dawning of light when the sun started producing light. The 3rd day was the dawning of plant life on earth. One could say the plants EVOLVED from the land. But God created all, because He created the earth and the sun and all that brought the plants forth. There would not be one plant without God, for there would be nothing without Him. We should believe God instead of justifying our traditions. Lou
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FOSSIL RECORD SHOWS GOD WROTE GENESIS 1
| Posted On: 04/18/08 09:44:21 AM |
Age 64, OH |
There does not seem to be any scientific evidence to support the atheists view of evolution. Lack of transition forms being one. But the Cambrian explosion of life forms is much stronger evidence. But the fossil record THAT GOD ALMIGHTY HAS LEFT US also shows us that man did not come upon the scene until after a long time after the first life forms appeared. If you are going to use the fossil record to disprove evolution is the creator than you can not have your cake and eat it too. The fossil record that was created by God is very convincing evidence that the Genesis is inspired by God. For the fossil record shows the creation happened in the same order as Genesis 1 says it did. Genesis says the order was plants, sea creatures, birds, land animals, and then man. The fossil record left by God of course agrees. The mathematical odds of Moses getting this correct by chance is 5!, which is 1x2x3x4x5 = 120. There is only one chance in 120 that Moses would get this correct by chance. That is strong evidence that God wrote Genesis 1 and not Moses. Lou
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irrational
| Posted On: 04/17/08 05:12:52 PM |
Age 44, IL |
Why do you think we can think?because God gave us a reasoning mind and a conscience.God created those things in man,not evolution. HE created everything,do you understand,everything.evolution is not proven,it is a THEORY. Show me a transitional fossil...can't do it because there are none.And if things are evolving as you say,then where is the PROOF of this?
Everything works in harmony because God created everything.Period.It is more harmful to man when he is being deceived by such nonsense as the theory of evolution.
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SHE???? was that a TYPO?
| Posted On: 04/17/08 04:51:37 PM |
Age 48, TX |
If you actually mean SHE, I disagree... please provide your proof He is a she. Thanks
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Creation v. Evolution
| Posted On: 04/17/08 01:27:45 PM |
Age 29, KS |
Anyone who claims to be a devout Christian, but discredits the first chapters of the Bible leaves a lot to chance. If you want to assume that God was wrong about how He made the universe, that's fine. How does the rest of the Bible sit with you? How do you explain the reason that Jesus died for your sins? If there was death and bloodshed before Adam, why did God say it was "Very Good"? I believe that you can call yourself a Christian and believe that Jesus died for you without beliving what I just wrote above. At some point, though, in your spiritual growing, you need to ask yourself the 'why' questions.
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devout fool
| Posted On: 04/17/08 12:54:38 PM |
Age 46, IRELAND |
How can you class yourself as devout or a devotee of Christ and suggest the scriptures are intolerant is not Christ the fullfilment of every jot and tittle
in the scripture , he said before abraham i was . In the beginning God Made ! what is your problem with that ? Is Christ a liar
Do you believe his literal word ? I would love to know .
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Once Again...Proof?
| Posted On: 04/17/08 12:49:15 PM |
Age 50, SD |
Discussing "close-mindedness" is all well and good folks. But not one of you accusing Ray of being close or narrow minded has answered the question. Please stop diverting the issue into something that doesn't matter. End the debate already. If you have the evidence of transitional forms then produce it. Show us the evidence where one kind of creature changed into a different kind of creature. You claim this took place, well, where is the evidence. There should be billions of fossils to show that process if it happened.
On the other hand my friends, if there is no evidence, who is being narrow-minded by believing this took place, regardless of where the evidence leads?
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NO MAN WILL FIND GOD WITHOUT HUMILITY
| Posted On: 04/17/08 11:26:07 AM |
Age 64, OH |
When Joshua asked the Lord if he was for us or our enemies. The Lord answered, NEITHER, but as Commander of the Lords Armies I now come. The Lord is not for evolution that says there is no God and God is also not for the six earth day creationist. God is THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF and represents himself and no other group. For only God is righteous and ALL MEN ARE LIARS. So how could God be on the side of any man. In so many comments, it seems that they lack humility. No man will find God without humility. Are we seeking to be right, or are we seeking Jesus Christ. If a man believes the correct doctrine but does not know the Lord Jesus Christ and have Him living in his own heart, then he is lost and has nothing. But if a man believes many lies, including evolution, but has given his life to the Lord Jesus Christ and has the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus living in his heart, then that man has everything there is to possess and lacks not one thing. All truth is important, and we should seek truth in all things, but humility is even more important, because Jesus only inhabits a humble heart. And The Lord Jesus Christ is everything. Lou
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THE CREATION REVEALS THE GLORY OF GOD
| Posted On: 04/17/08 11:02:56 AM |
Age 64, OH |
Dear Mark, I tend to believe the universe is very old, billions of years old. But I also believe every word of the Holy Scriptures are true as written. The Bible does not say the earth is young anywhere in the scriptures, but God calls Himself the Ancient of Days for a reason. The creation REVEALS the glory of God. So a young earth would not reveal God as the Ancient of Days. I do not think Genesis is about time at all. God defines what a "day" is. God called the "light" day. Genesis 1 shows us a old earth and not a earth that was created in 6 earth days but a earth that was created in six long days as far as time is concerned. Contact me at < lounewton1347@yahoo.com > if you would like to discuss this issue. Lou
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JESUS IS THE CREATOR
| Posted On: 04/17/08 10:47:47 AM |
Age 64, OH |
You have brought up a very good point, that we should all search for truth. Certainly, no person will be saved by knowing the correct doctrine. But we must be careful here; two things are required to find truth. 1 - give up everything and search with all that you possess. 2 - Humble yourself before God and ask Him. But even once we find some true fact, it will not save us. It is only when we trust the Creator of all Truth to save us that we are saved. Lou
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Disappointment?
| Posted On: 04/17/08 10:39:29 AM |
Age 23, WI |
The fact is, Mr. "Devout Christian", that those who don't believe, need to know why we are different. We can't just blend in and remain "politically correct". It is the difference in us that will set the world free. Would you rather be polite and let someone go to hell, or tell someone the truth (though it may not be easy) and see them in eternity? Safe comfort for cowards. If you aren't willing to tell someone the truth, then who are you to accept the gift that Christ gave you. You are wasting it.
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GOD SAYS THE LAND PRODUCED THE ANIMALS
| Posted On: 04/17/08 10:30:14 AM |
Age 64, OH |
God says ALL men are liars and Only God is true. Many men say they believe the Bible but believe the traditions of men started by the pope and do not even bother to carefully read the Holy Scriptures while asking the Author what He is saying. Look at THE BOOK and see that God says; 11 Then God said, "LET THE LAND PRODUCE VEGETATION: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 THE LAND PRODUCED VEGETATION: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.-- After God created the great creatures of the sea, God also said; 24 And God said, "LET THE LAND PRODUCE LIVING CREATURES according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. - I was not there, only God was, so I do not know exactly how God did it, but I do know that what God says is true. So God created creatures in the sea and then the land produced the animals on the land,because that is what God says. Scott, men would rather believe men than seek God for answers. And when God says something different than what most believe they can not seem to see it because it is to their comfort not to see it. Don't be discouraged by those who call you a doubter, but seek God and live. Lou
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knows nothing
| Posted On: 04/17/08 02:36:53 AM |
Age 52, GA |
My dear confused younger brother (Mark Bradford) that claims to be a believer in Christ. How do you know Jesus Christ? Do you remember He is/was the "Word made flesh"? Thus, we know Him as the Word, and through the Word - "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." Rom. 10:17 You have made a rather offensive declarative statement about an elder brother's lack of knowledge. You claim to be a self-taught scientist, how do you defend such a statement - that brother Ray "knows nothing about science"? That's a pretty broad and all encompassing accusation don't you think? From all of your studies of brother Ray, delving deeply into the furthest recesses of his mind, you have determined he knows nothing about science? Putting that unfounded, unscientific assertion aside, and to get back to your claim as a believer in Christ. Do you believe Christ to be the resurrected son of God, or the result of mutated monkey love? Let's get some things straight son, before you go around rebuking an elder in the faith. First of all, the Bible says "lean not on your own understanding" you either believe in the Word of God (Jesus Christ), or you don't. The Bible says "we now see through a glass darkly", do you know what that means? It means we don't see the big picture, and we won't in this dispensation - during our time in this reality. I went to your website, and you have spent a lot of time trying to dismantle your faith or attacking it, essentially arguing for it and against it. Do you recall what the Bible says about being double minded? "A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways." James 1:8 If your faith is not grounded in the Word, how can you help spread the gospel? As a Christian you are supposed to be ready to share the hope that you have, not the confusion you have. Who is the author of confusion? Get on the right side of the equation son, arguing with the devil at his own game, is dangerous territory. Our Lord knew better than to do such a thing, and only responded to the deceiver with holy writ. It is written - "Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path." Psalm 119:105. And - " Thy word [is] true [from] the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments [endureth] for ever." Psalm 119:160 So settle it in your mind, come out of the confusion, by doing as scripture tells us - meditating on the Word. Just as St.Paul encouraged Timothy - "Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee." 1Ti 4:15-16 That pretty much sums it up, so work on bolstering your faith, and don't worry about the details, as someone wisely surmised long ago, "the devil's in the details". Porter +++
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Devout Christian? That's disappointing...
| Posted On: 04/17/08 01:01:51 AM |
Age 52, GA |
My dear sir, if you were a devout Christian, you wouldn't call a brother, and a valiant defender of the faith ignorant. A devout Christian would view these verses and the ones I mention further on as inspired holy scripture - "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:... So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Gen. 1:26-27 One thing that many have overlooked in this debate, is that the deceiver has been at work from the beginning. The old man, the dragon, the liar, the father of all lies, has been at it a long time. Are you too smart for the deceiver? Have all the scientists in the world outsmarted him? Do they now have it all figured out, and his tricks and lies have all been uncovered? Is your spiritual discernment such that, now you have complete clarity, and the Word of God is simply a byline to the real story figured out by us humans? If you look to our Lord's example, He only responded to the liar with scripture. Why did he do that? Was he not smart enough or man enough or Godly enough to deal with satan off the cuff? Be sure of what you now see, which is as through a glass darkly, according to scripture my brother... Thus I refer you to these verses - "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:3-9 If you'll recall, doubting the Word of God as suggested by the tempter, to Eve in the beginning, is what got us into this mess. That is, if you are fundamentally a Bible believer? Follow our Lord's example, have faith, and banish doubt. That is the way, He is the way! Porter +++
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Proof
| Posted On: 04/16/08 09:32:03 PM |
Age 50, SD |
I am glad the writer is a "devout Christian", however he defines that. But in answering Ray's article he talks about centuries of empirical data and states some of the simple and logical principles supporting evolution. What kind of "evolution" are you talking about here? Is it that life that came into being by accident, and mutated into all the different forms of life? Ok. Where is the proof? Where are your transitional forms? What one thing changed into another kind of thing? If you have the proof, the "wealth of information", then show us, where are the transitional forms?
On the other hand, if the kind of "evolution" you are talking about is that of variation within a kind of creature (microevolution), I doubt there is any argument.
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