Schuller
| Posted On: 02/13/08 04:22:47 PM |
Age 40, CA |
Nothing in Christendom surprises me anymore -- especially when I read about Schuller's actions and/or statements. Let's just thank God for not allowing us to accept his teachings.
|
Reinvent form, but keep essential truth - Jan misses that mark (ell)
| Posted On: 02/13/08 02:50:35 PM |
Age 57, MN |
I like Jan Markell's insightful commentary, but sometimes it is "inciteful" instead.
This is an example.
Jan seems to equate reinvention of forms with reinvention of essential principles.
That belief tiptoes dangerously close to legalism, which is something that is easy to do and I am sure Jan would not want to do.
Schuller and others may well be trying to reinvent the essential principles, but you can't tell that from what Jan says in her commentary. I'd look a lot closer.
The forms of the "old time religion," hurt and wounded a lot of people who were subject to its legalistic adherance to external behaviors instead of eternal principles and relationship with Christ.
I'm not abandoning orthodoxy, but I will jettison anything that smacks of legalism.
|
A new Reformation?
| Posted On: 02/13/08 02:02:47 PM |
Age 50, MN |
What was the reformation? I think it was re-thinking Christianity and it was fought against by the established catholic church as much as the established conservative writers here are now. I think American Christianity has strayed far and in fact DOES need rethinking.
|
Missing the Point
| Posted On: 02/13/08 01:43:49 PM |
Age 30, OH |
I really think that everyone is missing the point. The Church is an ever changing entity. It must be re-invented to change with culture so that it the Message may be preached in a way that is understood by the culture. You do not approach someone who is from China and expect them to understand English? The Church must undergo a changing to reach the masses.
|
2 Timothy 4:3-5
| Posted On: 02/13/08 01:43:41 PM |
Age 21, AR |
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. But YOU(all of us!), keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry. 2 Timothy 4:3-5
|
Rediscovering the Kingdom of God - not "religion - not Christianity."
| Posted On: 02/13/08 12:35:28 PM |
Age 59, MA |
Jesus DID NOT come to establish a "religion." He came to announce the Kingdom of God. What did He say to "seek FIRST?" What did He "preach?" What did He proclaim? A "religion" or the Kingdom of God? What did He send His followers to proclaim? If "preachers" and His followers return to preaching the Kingdom of God by preaching the Word of God and not the "traditions of men," will God's Word "return to Him void," or will He "perform that which He has promised?" (Isaiah 55)
Further thoughts at "What is the Kingdom of God?" - http://www.earstohear.net/Kingdom/KingdomOfGod.html
|
How about going back to the Early Church...
| Posted On: 02/13/08 12:07:06 PM |
Age 30, CA |
It concerns me too that these leaders want to "reinvent" the church. The bigger issue is we need to go back to the early church to follow the way of Jesus.
"John Wesley sought no less than the recovery of the truth, life and power of the earliest Christianity and the expansion of that kind of Christianity." (George G. Hunter in To Spread the Power)
I encourage everyone to read "The Forgotten Ways" by Alan Hirsch because it points out the issues of the church today related to religiosity and Christendom that we need to abolish in favor of truly following the way of Jesus in the gospels and the Acts of the Apostles.
For the Fame of Jesus,
Ken
|
Jesus is the Foundation, not Christianity (1 Cor. 3:11)
| Posted On: 02/13/08 11:55:16 AM |
Age 45, MN |
Jan is certainly on to something here. Why reinvent Christianity since Christianity has been in a state of re-invention since the term Christian was first used as a pejorative for believers in Christ (Acts 11)? Perhaps the real "re-invention" of faith and practice should be a return to the faith and practice of Christ? Those who profess to follow Christ, should walk out His Father's Word as He walked it out. This is the true identifier of a disciple; to walk as your master walked. When one reads the Gospels and examines Jesus' walk, we see that He walked out His Father's Word blamelessly before there was a religion called Christianity. After Jesus' resurrection He instructed His disciples to teach the nations to do everything that He had taught them (Mat. 28). "A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher." (Luke 6:40 NASB)
|
Too bad God is not include in this re-thinking
| Posted On: 02/13/08 11:52:17 AM |
Age 52, CA |
I spent 7 months in a mosaic church plant. I got to experience this re-thinking first hand. My take on this is that these leaders no longer have confidence in the power of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps they have never experienced it themselves. I am not sure about that.
Their idea of church seems to be all about technique and proper phrasing. This new church that they are building feels more like a service organization like the Rotary Club, or Kiwanis than the church. In the re-thought church one could attend for years and never hear the full gospel message. Everything is built upon the positive things in the gospel and nothing is ever mentioned about sin, hell, conviction, repentance, etc.
I remember being told that the goal of the church was life transformation. So if people live a little more morally and are more self sacrificing, then they feel that they have accomplished their goal. I find that a real shame. There are many examples of groups who accomplished that while serving false gods.
The Lord Jesus Christ came and died on the cross to forgive us of our sins not to improve us. Unless the church conveys the message that we are all sinners and in need of redemption, there will be no true Christian converts.
|
While we're not re-thinking . . .
| Posted On: 02/13/08 11:44:45 AM |
Age 48, MO |
Maybe we should re-read 1 Tim 2:12 and Titus 2:3, and for that matter 1 Cor 14, and all the instructions to the church and believers.
Even "Conservative Evangelical" Christianity has strayed far from its roots, and it is time to re-think and realign it again with Scripture and move away from the culture of "Mystery Babylon."
In fact, the Revelation 2 and 3 repeatedly calls upon the church to repent. Do we always have to read it to mean the other guy? Or can we let it hit home once in a while?
Do you want to get it right, or to only "have it your way?" Because the latter is a responsibility, the other is a fast food slogan.
|
Reinvent Church? YES!
| Posted On: 02/13/08 10:27:40 AM |
Age 47, MO |
Reinvent Christianity, absolutely not. Christianity is as pure as Christ himself and will endure forever. However, reinvent Church, absolutely. Church is man's traditions and as we all know; tradition begets tradition and as man progresses it is far removed from its original intent. So, yes we need to get back to the basics, quit majoring on the minors and focus on being the body of Christ- controlled by Christ. Modern Church focuses on the experience, the instiution, and the morality. Christ focuses on the heart. Church has become corupted by salaries, the mortgage, the government, the entertainment, man's ideas of reaching the lost, and what it means to be saved. Biblical Christianity is a total loss of self, modern Church helps man find their self in the construct of living good. This is not Christianity but humanism. John
|
Go Back to Roots, Not Re-invent
| Posted On: 02/13/08 09:57:56 AM |
Age 44, CA |
Something is wrong that will only be fixed by a complete reformation, one that actually does the whole job. Christianity is the fulfilment of the Jewish faith, not a new faith. Until we get our pride out of the way and read the NT with that perspective; written to churches filled with both Jew and Greek worshipping on God's Sabbath, New Moons, and His Festivals; our reading of the NT will be veiled by our pride. The natural branches are Abraham's blood children, Isreal as well as Arabs.
As their branches are grafted back in as the recognize Jesus/Jeshua is Messiah of Israel, we will see that the time of the Gentiles closes and the fig tree is starting to bear leaves and we are close to a return of Christ.
We don't need to re-invent, we need to humbly come back to Torah not as law (to make righteous)but in love, because we have been delivered from sin and our carnality towards His Laws (Romans 6:17, 8:6-8)and respond in love as obedient children to the Lord. Why such enmity to God's laws? Jesus magnified them and made them honorable (Is. 42:21) by showing us to love God enough to obey them. Maybe many are still carnal, which is death. By embracing Torah as a way of God's protection and blessing we will actually seperate ourselves, setting ourselves apart as His people to the world looking for unity in the body. We need to quit boasting against the branches and embrace them and the faith of Jesus (which was Jewish).
Jack
MinisterWhereYouAre.org
|
More Info needed
| Posted On: 02/13/08 08:14:55 AM |
Age 58, NC |
What were some of the ideas presented? We need to be prepared if possible for these new doctrines. "The Church in the Wilderness",a book from Tate Publishing to be released this Spring, calls the Church to come out of the Wilderness and back to the Glory God intended us to have. Seems like its release may be very timely.
|
REthinking
| Posted On: 02/13/08 07:56:20 AM |
Age 36, OK |
I doubt rethinking Christianity necessarily means that we are rewriting the bible or redefining Christ. I would rather think it is the use of the mind of Christ to make the gospel, the old time religion, as you call it, relevant to today. Must we continue to hold on to the past while incresingly losing myriads to the enemy? The enemy changes his methods to suit the times. For instance as the people moved and became better educated, the Christians became more knowledgeable. Who were the most educated, prosperous and incharge people in the bible times? Consider Abraham, Isaac , David, then Jesus, Joseph of Arimathea, do you think these people had their heads in the sand and were of no impact to their society? Christians must be apolitical, IN this world but not of it. WE cannot stand pointing fingers with not solutions while we are the solution. THe salt solution at least. Holding the bread we cannot just eat it while the world starves, we must pray over it. Hold it up to the Father , break it and share it with the 5,000; the 10000 even the remaining 4 bilion. WE must think and rethink and work out our salvation with fear and trembling so that another may go to heaven with us. Some by pulling them out of the fire. How can we pull them out if we do not know where the fire is.
|
Restarted
| Posted On: 02/13/08 07:10:22 AM |
Age 47, KS |
We don't need to reinvent Christianity. We have left true Christianity in the dust. Maybe it's time to restart Christianity and call upon the Lord to send His Spirit of holiness through our churches once again.
It seems all these organizations want to get as far away from holiness as possible. Instaed of striving for holiness the church is looking for the least common denominator to unite us in unholy lives and principles.
It's time for the church to restar on it's original foundation. Transformed lives through the work of Christ's Holy Spirit.
|
I Agree
| Posted On: 02/12/08 08:06:10 PM |
Age 61, MO |
It seems that many people are not coming to grips with the serious error of the entire church growth movement that has run the gamut from Purpose Driven to Emergent. Jesus said, "I will build My Church", so we know that this Church is not built by man nor organized by man. Man is not the author or the creator of it. The Church that Jesus is building is "from above." It is something that originates in the Spirit and by the Spirit. "Church" is simply that which Jesus is building upon the foundation of Himself. It consists of those to whom God has chosen to reveal His Son. This revelation of who we are in Christ and who Christ is in us is the key. Without this firm foundation we cannot know, understand or experience being part of the Church. Our religious head knowledge is of virtually no significance, or the repeating of the so-called "Sinner's Prayer" means nothing apart from the revelation of Jesus Christ. Those structures not built upon the Foundation of Jesus Christ will fall of their own accord (I Corinthians 3:12-15). In the last days the Spirit of Antichrist will dominate and rule the world system, attempting to blot out the true Church. Outwardly speaking it appears to be succeeding. However, we can have confidence that the Church that Jesus is building cannot be overcome by the gates of hell. George Cancilla
|
|
|
|
|
