Effeminate American Men
| Posted On: 01/19/08 11:08:15 PM |
Age 59, MS |
In the King James Version of the Bible, First Corinthians 6:9, it says that the effeminate will not inherit the kingdom of God. In Revelation 21:8 it says the cowardly will have their part in the lake of fire. "Effeminate" means "soft" -- perhaps speaking of the lack of muscular strength due to laziness, or flabbiness due to ease of life and overconsumption. Jesus asked his audience in Matthew 11:7-9 a rhetorical question about John the Baptist. He said, "What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed shaken by the wind?" (Of course not, John wasn't a product of his culture whose doctrines bent with the winds of "political correctness"; he was a courageous and upright spokesman for God.) Jesus continued, "But what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing? Behold those who wear soft clothing are in kings' palaces." We see some kind of connection between softness, the effeminate and "politically correct" kind, and the effeminate men who parrot what the king and others want to hear. John was a real man, as Jesus so clearly pointed out. He was courageous, but he got beheaded for it.
American males have been trained since 1966, the year the feminist organization NOW was founded, that women should be the leaders, do the work, and be "mammas" to their husbands. The TV depicts men more often than not to be inept, unintelligent, foolish, and worthless. That is one reason we have effeminate men in America today. It is not just evangelicals who are effeminate; it's a trait of our whole culture.
Our culture will not undergo revival until boys are trained by their fathers to work hard, be honest, and be morally pure. And this will not happen until God "restores the hearts of the fathers to their children," as Malachi 4:6 says.
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As in the days of Noah
| Posted On: 01/19/08 09:31:33 PM |
Age 45, AR |
I'm sitting in New Orleans as I respond to this article and its following dialog and I can't help but comment on the remarkable similarities between the homosexuality, drunkeness and feminism that I see on the street here and that from the days of Noah as we know them. There is absolutely no difference between the gender roles practiced by the drunken crowds on the street here in New Orleans and the gender roles now practiced in debauched American churches across the land. Equality is and always has been the rallying cry of the devils servants when it comes to the separation of gender roles in both cases. But alas, we are past that cry for equality stage of feminist development now in America with the exception of the few males who had a small taste of how things used to be and then somehow escaped society for a few years long enough for time and debauchery to race ahead of them. That phase is now concluded for this generation of people. Healthy marriage is a thing of the past for this generaton. Gay marriage, that is, marriage between equals is now the norm. Women really are not naturally predisposed to recognize the difference between themselves and men to a degree that it cannot be programmed out of them by a homosexual society. If gender difference is not forcefully taught by society, then homosexuality is always the result, both in men and in women. It takes extensive and comprehensive times of extreme hardship and desperation before women once again recognize the difference between themselves and men. But the fact is that when those times come as in the days of Noah and Sodom, there are not any of those evildoers left to repent, to change their ways or to tell the story of how it used to be when feminism was the rule rather than the exception. God has remained silent for many years now concerning this wickedness of feminism and homosexuality that has invaded both church and society. And just as an earthquake silently builds pressure over time and gives no warning; so also will come the wrath of God. If you, on the other hand, believe that women should have the right to vote and hold public office, then don't complain to me that you are discriminated against and shown disrespect as a man. Don't complain to me that divorce courts are biased in favor of women. And don't complain to me that a woman took your job and left you without a paycheck. You helped to create that perversion if you believe in womens rights. The fact is that if you now believe that women should have rights, then you would be one of those who would bring feminism back to start the process all over again after God destroys it at the end of this age. On the other hand, if you are one of those men who have stood against feminism with its homosexual forces and tendencies and you've been kicked in the teeth for doing so while wondering why God won't come back and execute justice, then take heart. Wait for God and He will deliver just as He did the saints of old. But don't be like Lot's wife and look back to pity this society when fire falls upon it from heaven. Yes, God is slow to wrath because He has lessons for us to learn in the mean time. Let's learn them well. Take notes. God is not equal to His bride the church as that would be an insult to Him. He is not weak. God wants us to see feminism in the same way He sees it. But that does not mean that His wrath and judgment are not coming. You have just enough time to observe the wicked and learn not to walk in their ways and then it's all over. Learn well. In the next generation, women will not speak disrespectfully to men, neither will they act as if they are equal to men.
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Tough Territory
| Posted On: 01/19/08 01:31:50 PM |
Age 50, IN |
Steve
Good article. You are "bolding going where no man should go," unless he has a firm grip on God's Word, ample courage, and a tough hide. Dealng with feminism in the church is, indeed, not for the "faint of heart." I have found that feminism has so permeated our culture and the church that many Christian women are unaware of how deeply it is entrenched in their minds and affects their attitudes toward men, ... and then men may react either in an abusive or an emasculated manner. (Of course, many men struggle with chauvinistic unbiblical attitudes as well.) I have seen this struggle between the genders often, and the only loving peace I've seen coming to either males or females is when they are willing to truly examine God's Word in light of culture and then endeavor to align themselves with the biblical masculinity and biblical femininity as God has planned. Then the "puzzle pieces" of gender mesh beautifully, and there is harmony in the home. Feminism definitely has the upper hand over chauvinism these days, so, battling feminism in the church is a painful struggle all the way. Wisdom, Courage, and Compassion to you, Steve.
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Not offensive?
| Posted On: 01/19/08 12:14:46 AM |
Age 31, IN |
To those who don't understand why some take offense at Steve Camp's article, I'd like to offer the following explanation. Steve lists a number of characteristics - things like being cowardly, fearful, looking for human rather than Godly approval, weak, passive, non-confrontational. He argues that these characteristics are exceedingly negative - indeed, they are opposed to faith, true doctrine, Biblical injunctions, proper living for God, and truth; they represent a dangerous and anti-Biblical element of "postmodern evangelicalism," according to Steve. And then he both explicitly and implicitly identifies these anti-Christian characteristics as being *feminine*. So, how is that NOT offensive (not to mention unbiblical)? If it needs to be made even clearer, just imagine an analogous article lamenting the "Negro-ification" of the Evangelical Christian," identifying the former with a list of characteristics that violate Biblical commands to confrontatively and boldly speak the truth in love, etc.
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Exactly Right!
| Posted On: 01/18/08 10:56:16 PM |
Age 52, TN |
<b>John</b>
Tremendous quote from Luther. Thank you dear brother. Oh for men of God like this again!
Steve
2 Tim. 2:15
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Men and Women encouraged to contend for the faith
| Posted On: 01/18/08 12:44:10 PM |
Age 54, CANADA |
Steve wrote: "Where are the men of God that are willing to contend for the once for all delivered to the saints faith?"
The body of Christ needs men AND women to contend for the faith. As a full-time apologist who daily contends for the faith and who is also a woman, I was saddened to see the sexist attitude displayed that only encouraged males to contend for the faith. I was also saddened to see that being "nice" was used as a "feminine" characteristic that is not to be emulated by a "real man". The fact is that all of us are called to contend for the faith and it is a godly thing (not a male thing) to stand up and be counted in defending the gospel. The fact is also that we are to defend the faith with gentleness and respect and these are godly characteristics not feminine ones.
Steven would also have done well to encourage men to take the biblical view of contending for the faith with "gentleness" and "respect". Certainly "nice" is a quality of "gentleness". I have seen too many men apologists who have contended for the faith in a obnoxious manner and who would not qualify as gentle or nice. It may not be easy, but contending strongly for the faith can be done without being mean or rude. I have worked hard at being gentle in my ministry work of contending for the faith for 20 years now. I have contended for the faith in a strong way and even named names when exposing the errors. But I have done it as scripture tells me to do it with gentleness and respect. Those who equate this with "feminine" are actually putting men down because this is the requirement that is given by scripture of a real leader. Strong? Yes! Respectful? Yes! A respectful attitude is required of godly leaders and those who do not mix a strong defense of the gospel with a respectful and gentle and humble attitude are not reading scripture very well.
I would highly recommend that Steve be humble enough to rewrite this article. The point he makes about our standing up for the gospel and not backing down to the false teachers is a wonderful point. But his segregating the call for males alone and his equating a respectful (nice) attitude when contending for the faith as a "feminine" characteristic can be considered a slight against his sisters in Christ as well as many of his godly brothers in Christ. His points could be made in a much stronger and clearer fashion if he would leave aside any comments regarding male and female characteristics. These comments only support the worldly view where the majority of the planet equates anything feminine as inferior and as things to be shunned. Since Jesus entrusted the gospel of the resurrection to women first, his trust in his feminine "sons" is no less than his masculine "sons". Let's lead like Jesus did and hold each other up in high regard and treat men and women both as spiritual equals in the work of contending for the faith.
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TO EACH THEIR OWN
| Posted On: 01/18/08 11:38:54 AM |
Age 64, OH |
the reverse is also true. if a wife OBEYED HER HUSBAND AS SHE WOULD OBEY JESUS CHRIST then the husband would have a lot less trouble acting like Christ. this works with believing and non believing husbands. Lou
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Women read Proverbs 31
| Posted On: 01/18/08 11:32:23 AM |
Age 64, OR |
Scriptures tells women (young and old, married or not) they are the "weaker vessel" and men are to honor them, while women are to respect men. It is God who gives spiritual authority in the church and family to the man - not the women. It all takes us back to the garden of Eden where the woman was deceived by Satan/the serpent.
In the assembly of believers women are to hold their tongue and wait until they are at home to ask their husbands questions.
That said, any woman who challenges God's directives have their rebellion not with their husband or church male leadership but are in rebellion against God - directly.
It is a disturbing fact though that many churches are lacking in male leadership - true masculine leadership. In the home and in church women have emotionally and spiritually castrated men and that my friends is a "subtly deceptive" work of Satan! So you women who take offense at true masculine leadership - not the wimps now in most pulpits - you are being subtly deceived by Satan who is roaming the Earth to seek and devour (YOU)!
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SECURE WOMAN
| Posted On: 01/18/08 11:29:32 AM |
Age 64, OH |
It is nice to hear from a Christian woman who is secure in her womanhood. Lou
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More info...
| Posted On: 01/18/08 08:44:35 AM |
Age 47, MO |
I've written a tremendous amount on this subject. If anyone interested, email me at jchristco@aol.com
a
Also, there is a great book called; No More Christian Nice Guy, by Paul Caughlin (I think that's his name)
a
Thanks, John
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Designed to be...
| Posted On: 01/18/08 08:40:25 AM |
Age 47, MO |
Why would you possibly think male good, female bad? How about male male, and female female. Isn't that the point Steve is making? Here's an excerpt from a letter I wrote: "Christ came to drive a wedge and to separate- to create absolutes; truths that are cherished. (Another saying: Men create or separate, Women incubate. Men are straight line, women are circular.)" Without volgar conotations let me also say that men ejaculate (put forth, postulate, etc), women incubate (nurture, protect, etc). It is by design that we are what we are, Steve is only saying to live up to our God given design and abilities. John
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RUTH
| Posted On: 01/17/08 09:56:15 PM |
Age 64, OH |
Read the book of Ruth and see how God would have a woman act. I am a man and Ruth is one of my heroes. I have not seen one woman who would measure up to her in this nation that I have met. God sent Naomi into Moab to get Ruth and bring her to Himself. Look at how Ruth talks to men. When addressing Boaz she calls herself his servant. But look at the speech she gives Naomi in Ch 1: 16 But Ruth replied, "Don't urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. 17 Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the LORD deal with me, be it ever so severely, if anything but death separates you and me." 18 When Naomi realized that Ruth was determined to go with her, she stopped urging her.-- Ruth did not confront men and even other women. But she was certainly brave, loyal, and everything I would want in a woman. One of the pillars of the Temple was named Boaz and Boaz jumped at the chance to marry Ruth. I have thought I would never marry again but if i met a Ruth I would jump at the chance and even fight for a chance to marry one like Ruth. I have never met even one women who is close to having all of her qualities. I would rather have Ruth on my side than almost any man I have met. One might call her a female tiger.But she was very, very feminine. Lou
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Labor Pains
| Posted On: 01/17/08 09:48:08 PM |
Age 59, CANADA |
I think you might of missed what He was trying to get accross.
Question; why do women have labor pain?
God Bless
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MEN AND WOMEN
| Posted On: 01/17/08 09:39:14 PM |
Age 64, OH |
Maybe you offend too easy. I did not hear Steve blame or criticize a woman one time in this article. He put ALL THE BLAME ON MEN. So what do you want. I think women are great but i do not like it when men act like women. For a woman to act like a woman should is to her glory but for a man to act the same is an abomination. Lou
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Women
| Posted On: 01/17/08 09:35:10 PM |
Age 64, OH |
I did not hear Steve criticize women once here.
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MEN AND WOMEN
| Posted On: 01/17/08 09:27:30 PM |
Age 64, OH |
Steve did not say that these men were accepting a watered down gospel but not willing to confront the lies or false gospel. That would be being feminine would it not. A women is to be a more gentle and kind spirit and not to confront a man in a non gentle way. It is to the womans glory to behave this way but it is not to the glory of a man. Lou
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MEN AND WOMEN
| Posted On: 01/17/08 09:16:42 PM |
Age 64, OH |
There is nothing wrong or second class about being a woman; as long as that person is a woman. In case you have not noticed there is quite a difference between men and women. God recognizes this difference. Look at Gen 3:16 To the woman he said,"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and HE WILL RULE OVER YOU." - Or from the NT Eph - 22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.- So when a man does not take his responsibility to lead as Christ would lead then he is acting in submission or as a woman. This is wrong when a man acts as a woman. For A woman to be submissive and gentle in spirit is to her glory but for a man to be a woman is an abomination. Lou
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not offensive
| Posted On: 01/17/08 06:56:04 PM |
Age 48, IL |
With all due respect, I don't believe Steve meant to offend women. It was a mere example to the lack of male bravery and unbiblical approach in rightly dividing and defending God's truth. I am a Christian woman, and I take no offense to this, perhaps spiritual maturity and discernment will bring about a better understanding to those who got their feelings hurt. He was trying to motivate Christian men to be mighty men of God. Like the apostle Paul says in Ephesians 6:19, 'and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel'
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men
| Posted On: 01/17/08 06:46:23 PM |
Age 37, FL |
Sadly, I have seen the very scenario of which you speak. The only light that I could shed on this (from the female perspective) is this, I would have NO PROBLEM submitting to the judgement and authority of my husband if he was clearly loving me "as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for it" or loving me "as his own body." Being married to a non-beleiver makes this directive especially challenging for me. I cling to Paul's exhortation for husbands and wives to put each other's needs first and give ourselves wholly to each other. According to 1Chor. 7:4, the husband's body belongs to the wife and the wife's body belongs to the husband. If we are one flesh, degrading my husband would be the same as degrading myself! It does not say anywhere that this instruction does not apply if the behavior is not reciprocated. So if a husband just keeps truly showing a self-sacrificial, Christ inspired love for his wife- eventually she will be bursting at the seams to please her husband! If we were all as concerned about our spouse's needs and well-being as we were about our own it would not be so inconceivable to end the gender-based friction in marriage and be an example to the world. Likewise, women need to display the same self-less attitude toward their husbands because they would be much more likely to open their hearts and ears if conversations and actions were not driven by a "MEET MY NEEDS" agenda. An unfortunate outcome of the ungodly attitudes of both men and women in history have resulted in men demeaning women and women demeaning men. It's so sad that God's people can't see through this snare (I'm sure the devil is highly amused) and love and care for each other with a servant heart.
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Feminization of the Evangelical Man
| Posted On: 01/17/08 06:40:31 PM |
Age 38, AUSTRALIA |
Good article Steve & lots of interesting comments thus far.
A good book to read is "A Twist of Faith" by Berit Kjos (www.crossroad.to). In her book Berit shares her research on the influence of feminist spirituality on the church, & how it is subtly changing & betraying many.
"Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers." Titus 1:9
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