Biblical term for Separation
| Posted On: 01/02/08 02:49:03 PM |
Age 37, FL |
Not Bound.
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rightly dividing scripture
| Posted On: 01/02/08 02:46:56 PM |
Age 37, FL |
Revisit the actions and the attitude of Jesus Christ and you must see how obvious it is that you are not "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" on this topic. In this passage, the only people who could legally pursue divorce were husbands because women were little more than posessions an had no rights. This was not a result of the "Eve factor" but it was a result of Greek and Roman philosopher's suspicion of women melded with traditional Jewish teachings- attitudes that were reflected in the culture's legal systems. The "Eve" curse pronounced in the garden applies to those who remain in that sinful state, not those who are redeemed by the Blood of Christ which is why women have been legally under subjection since, it is a reflection of a sinful state, not an excuse for male dominance and men being permitted to commit adultery and their wife is forced to be subjected to his sin.
Try rightly dividng scripture and you will meet a just, holy and gracious Redeemer that will melt your heart!
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We must stop making excuses and repent.
| Posted On: 01/02/08 02:15:19 PM |
Age 28, KY |
As a minister of the gospel this topic has convicted me more than any other. Churches in this day and age have made so many excuses for divorce and remarriage because our leaders and our ministers are living in adultery. As a child of divorce I wanted to know the truth for myself without listening to the so-called professionals of the day and listening to all these excuses. After studying God's word and studying what the Anti-Nicene father's taught I have found the truth and it has set me free. I have noticed people as we study all the clear verses such as Mark 10:2-12, Luke 16:18, Romans 7:2-3, I Corinthians 7:10-11, and I Corinthians 7:39 say, "Oh, now I have found the truth", but then they go back to some minister or respected person and they start making all the excuses. It is sad that we as Christians have influenced people wrongly for Christ. When will people stick up for what Jesus has to say? Marriage is between one man, one woman, for life. We are not to marry a divorced person because if we do we are not keeping open the doors of reconciliation for them and they still living spouse. Instead we are helping them to committ adultery. Why would we want to help someone sin? Paul tells us in I Corinthians 7 to either remain unmarried or be reconciled to our spouse. Two choices not several like those of the Erasmian view choose to wrongly tell us.
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JESUS CHRIST - OUR ONLY HOPE
| Posted On: 12/27/07 10:20:07 AM |
Age 64, OH |
1st my wife left me 20 years ago and I have remained unmarried and have not dated, even though she has remarried. 2nd - I agree with the scripture and the one that you state is about Christian couples. It agrees with what I have stated; it is the partner that leaves the marriage that is the covenant breaker ( unless the other has cheated) and the one who leaves is being disobedient to he Lord as Paul points out. Paul says the one who breaks the covenant is to return to the marriage or FOREVER remain single. I would agree with what Paul has said. But if a partner breaks the marriage covenant then the one who has stayed faithful is not bound forever. You talk of virgins and the desire to have a virgin for your son. Well what about the faithful partner who has a unfaithful partner. They are just supposed to overlook the fact that their spouse has been preforming all kinds of sex acts with another person and take them back. Jesus is merciful and just and He gave the faithful partner permission to not be bound by a covenant that has been broken. I made my decision of what to do after my wife left. I found the advise and counsel of most of those around me to be human at best. I found the ones who spoke the voice of the Holy Spirit to be very rare. I stayed single for the sake of my son who was only one year of age. I did not feel it would be good for him to have yet another person in his life. It was hard enough for him to deal with the divorce and then the remarriage of his mother. But I am not bound in the covenant any longer; she left and has been remarried for years. I do not think others should sit around making decisions for the people who are involved in the tragedy of a broken marriage. I do not want to make the decision for another person and would not. For they are the Lord's servant and not mine. If I would make the decision for them then I have been party to their being UNFAITHFUL to their Lord. For they are to follow Him and not me. I would advise anyone involved in a broken covenant to read the scriptures very carefully while seeking the counsel of The Holy Spirit and ask Him to lead them and cause them to do His will by His mercy and grace. This is what I did and I am at peace with my decision to remain single. But if the Holy Spirit would lead me into another relationship, while I would be fearful and very careful, I would have to obey my Lord would I not. Often the situation has been made very complicated by the sin of people and what is right and wrong is beyond the wisdom of men. We should read the scriptures very careful but then it is the Counselor that we need to have interpret what he meant when He wrote them. The Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ is our only hope; whether it is a simple matter of should we go to the store, or the question of marriage. He is the One we should follow and trust to lead us for he is able and willing to do so. He is never the problem; the problem is always us. Are we truly wanting to do His will or are we trying to twist things so we can have our own way. I have found the fruits of my own way are very bitter and my entire hope is built on the hope that I am His bond servant. If I am not willing to do His will then I pray that He make me willing to do His will. He is Almighty God and His arm is NOT too short to save. Lou
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Biblical basis for separation
| Posted On: 12/25/07 11:39:30 PM |
Age 27, ND |
Tell me first, which is best in the eyes of the lord, to leave the abusive realtionship and stay alive or to stay in the relationship and get her face beaten every day?
I'll be happy to answer you when you have answered me.
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re: not bound... questions Lou
| Posted On: 12/24/07 12:55:40 AM |
Age 52, GA |
In the same chapter, it seems you have overlooked some key verses that contradict your position. "And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife." 1 Cor. 7:10-11. "The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord." 1 Cor. 7:39. My question Lou regards your defense of being unbound, as the same as being unmarried. For instance, if a woman's husband departs and she decides she will not continue in patience to pray for him (you actually referred to 1 Cor. 7:16), so she gets a divorce, which would allow her supposedly to remarry. If a Christian man is not supposed to marry a divorced woman, how can she get remarried "only in the Lord" as a widow might? Do you have the departed husband declared legally dead? If you had a son that had never been married, never been with a woman, and he began going with this woman, would you look forward to, and bless their union? Or would you prefer a virginal bride for him? What if the first husband came back? It seems difficult to include not being bound, as the same thing as being sanctified for remarriage. Are you in a remarriage situation? Is that why you focus on that particular verse? Historically virgins have always been valued, once virginity is lost, it's lost. Christ our Lord wants to come back for a spotless church, a virginal bride. Is life here supposed to be easy and fair for a believer? I didn't read that part, but we have the hope, so we keep the faith.
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FORGIVENESS DOES NOT MEAN TO STAY MARRIED
| Posted On: 12/22/07 01:38:54 AM |
Age 64, OH |
You say that if a partner cheats on the other then Jesus permits divorce but it is not his will, for we should forgive. There is a difference between forgiveness and staying in the marriage. A partner who cheats has opened up the relationship to disease and demonic spiritual problems. The Christian should forgive the cheating partner but that does NOT mean it is God's will for them to stay married. The scripture also says if a wife leaves and marries another it is an abomination to take her back if she then leaves the second husband. Has not the cheating partner consummated a marriage with the one they have cheated with. It is not a matter of forgiveness. We are always to work toward forgiveness. But that does not mean that they should remain married. If Jesus permits divorce then that is not sin or not falling short. You imply that the victim is required to do what God does not ask. The commands of God are perfect. We are told not to have sex with a prostitute for we are becoming one with her. She has spiritual diseases and probably physical diseases. We are told not to join ourself with her. So what would be the difference with having sex with the unfaithful wife who has sex outside of the marriage with one like herself. One could say it would not be wise to join themselves with her any more than it would the prostitute. If I had a wife who cheated on me then I would be very much in prayer before I would take her back. I would not take her back without the Lord's direction. The divorce problem could be helped tremendously if the courts held them to the same standard as they did business. The one who broke the contract by leaving or cheating should lose the house and custody of the children. They should also be the one to pay support. This would put a stop to many divorces. Lou
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THE COVENANT KEEPER IS ALWAYS FREE
| Posted On: 12/22/07 01:03:35 AM |
Age 64, OH |
I do not see where there is any confusion in the NIV for it means what the English plainly says. A believer MUST NOT leave their mate. If they do they must go back or forever remain single. This is instructions to the one who leaves. But if a believer is married to an unbeliever and the unbeliever is CONTENT TO STAY then the believer MUST NOT LEAVE. But if the unbeliever is NOT CONTENT TO STAY OR LEAVES the believer, then the believer is NOT BOUND. That means that the believer is free; or as it says not bound in marriage. It is very simple; the innocent or covenant keeper is always free for they did not break the covenant. But the one who breaks the covenant is in sin if they do not return. The mate who has their partner leave can not make them stay. They are not responsible for the sin of another. So the one who stayed in the marriage and who has a partner who leaves is free to marry again. They are not held as a slave to a marriage that the other has broken. Of course you will have people try to abuse this by mistreating a partner and hoping they will leave. Or cheating on the partner; if they cheat then they have broken the covenant and the sin is on them. I have seen churches mistreat other Christians over this for years. A man who has a wife who leaves him and he did not cheat on her; and he later remarries is often treated as a sinner. They say he can not preach because he has had more than one wife. He does not have more than one wife; for the scripture says he is NOT BOUND to the woman who left him and he is free to marry again. He is free to preach the same as a man who has a wife that died and he remarried. When the mans wife dies he is free or if the mans wife leaves him and he did all he could to keep the covenant then he is free the same as she had died. I have seen churches accept a man who had murdered another man and then repented and was out of jail and they let this man preach in their church. But the same church would not let a man who had a wife break the marriage covenant with him and they treated him worse than a murderer. There is forgiveness for murder but not forgiveness for a man who has the sadness of losing the love of his life. The second man did not even sin. This is why the church is in such a sorry state today. It is injustice and lack of mercy that they have treated many with that is bringing judgment on the church. Lou
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Ah, but we don't to obey...we want a loophole
| Posted On: 12/21/07 11:13:28 PM |
Age 44, TN |
When I was 24, I left my husband and returned to the house of my parents with two small children. My husband was an abusive drunk. I was a new christian, so I only understood the scriptures as I read them, literally. It seemed clear to me that Jesus taught divorce was permitted in a few circumstance, but without remarriage. When you submit to Jesus as Lord, it means you obey Him. My husband and I reunited after 11 months. nine years later he was radically saved. Those were nine VERY difficult years during which I could never have imagined the marvelous work of grace God would perform in him. We have been married now for 23 years and they've been the best 10 years of my live.
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re: pastor
| Posted On: 12/21/07 11:05:43 PM |
Age 52, GA |
Actually the leader of a church as defined in the New Testament would be a Bishop, or at least adhere to those qualifications. It seems many in the church business prefer to be called pastors these days, because there are no strict qualifications as for a bishop. Pastor = shepherd, someone the leads and guides dumb sheep. The Word has the answers you seek. Porter +++
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THE ONE WHO IS LEFT IS NOT BOUND
| Posted On: 12/21/07 10:29:23 PM |
Age 64, OH |
1 Cor 7:15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is NOT BOUND in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?-- the scripture says if a mate leaves their own mate then they are bound to return or live single the rest of their life. But if the one partner leaves the other then the one who is left is NOT BOUND. If they are not bound then they are free. if they are free then they are as unmarried. The innocent partner is not punished but can remarry. Lou
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Divorce and remarriage
| Posted On: 12/21/07 09:26:23 AM |
Age 61, MO |
The children in Churchianity are schooled in adultery long before they get married. The Bible says that it is better to marry than to burn, but we often say it is better to burn for several years than to get married before you have your money in order. We delay the marriage of our children for the sake of education so they can get a "better" job, which is to say, so they can get more money. MONEY then decides if they will marry, who they will marry and when they will marry. While our children are waiting to get old enough and monied enough to "get married;" we allow them to play "the dating game", thinking that if we allow them to indulge in a little foreplay, that this will tide them over until they are allowed to go all the way. Everyone on television commits fornication and adultery and get away with it, so why not? Sexual innuendo is frequently written into all kinds of commercials. The best way to avoid divorce and remarriage is to nip it in the bud with a solid marrital committment made in the eyes of God. George Cancilla
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culture changes
| Posted On: 12/21/07 08:27:56 AM |
Age 47, MO |
The problem, as I see it is that we see the truth but it is difficult to apply to a different culture. Yes, in the culture scripture was written men were the head of the house, today men and women are equal. In the old day families were tighter and the woman would seperate and return to her parents to avoid abuse. If the husband persued her, the father would be waiting. So what's the answer today? It is still not quick easy divorce but rather expensive seperation, a gun permit, prayer, and counseling. Like you said; it's about the children and the soul. Unfortunately today it is easy to not even see future implications in our actions. John
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re: poor exegesis
| Posted On: 12/20/07 07:31:40 PM |
Age 52, GA |
I'm glad you have some familiarity with exegesis, however, the Bible says "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word". First of all, you've completely ignored God's penalty and command for Eve the first woman in Genesis 3:16 "I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.". The Lord Jesus did not over-rule this order of authority when He came. ""And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Timothy 2:14. Secondly, you wrongly assert "Everything the New Testament says about childrearing ... is addressed to fathers". Let me refer you to some scripture brother - "...speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: ... The aged women likewise, that [they be] in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, [To be] discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed." Titus 2:1-5.
Also, "I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully." 1 Tim 5:14. As you seem to be a valiant modern champion of women's rights you might disagree with Peter when he wrote "Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But [let it be] the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, [even the ornament] of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands: Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement." 1 Peter 3:1-6 No, the Bible makes it clear, Christian women are not given authority in family matters, and divorce is the most serious of a family matters. I am sure you would also consider this scripture unfair which is in the same chapter Steve's article refers and explicit command from the Lord according to St. Paul - "And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to [her] husband: and let not the husband put away [his] wife." 1 Cor. 7:10-11 Furthermore, "The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth..." 1 Cor. 7:39 The Word is clear brother, your opinions, are simply just opinions. I adjure you to study to shew thyself approved. Porter +++
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What about clean/unclean children???
| Posted On: 12/20/07 04:48:57 PM |
Age 51, MN |
Steve,
I appreciate your comments on the divorce/remarriage question for I Cor. 7.
Since we're on that chapter, could you say a few words re: the children? What I mean is, does the believing spouse confer some holiness on the kids, according to the verse, and does it "wear off" or go away as the child reaches some magic age??? And what happens if the believing spouse dies, and the remaining one marries a non-believer?
And where does this leave newborns of 2 unbelieving parents?
I'm not trying to be funny, nor make light of the verse, only trying to place this into context w/ the rest of my (admittedly) limited knowledge of Scripture.
I'd appreciate some insight...
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Separation?
| Posted On: 12/20/07 03:45:57 PM |
Age 54, IN |
Please give the biblical basis for something called "separation." It is so convenient to use a non-biblical term to duck the fact that you are talking about breaking the terms of the marriage covenant, which is exactly what divorce does. This is legalism in the most destructive form - using deceptive terms to avoid the actual effect of the action.
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Abuse
| Posted On: 12/20/07 03:43:53 PM |
Age 61, MO |
I would refer you to an earlier article on this site by Kirby Anderson: http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/2697/Kerby_Anderson
Before we can have a divorcement, we have to have a marriage in the eyes of God--not just the eyes of man or the state. Otherwise, all we have is fornication. An abusive partner in a "marriage" automatically disqualifies that as a marriage in the eyes of God. At that point, there is no reason for either partner to submit to the other. George Cancilla
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Divorced and remarried
| Posted On: 12/20/07 03:17:37 PM |
Age 61, MO |
Your honest testimony can only be received well by our heavenly Father. You have not denied the Truth of God as revealed in the Bible in order to justify your deeds. You have laid your burden at the foot of the Cross. Essentially, you have repented of any adultery by so doing. George Cancilla
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Pastor married to a divorced lady
| Posted On: 12/20/07 02:19:21 PM |
Age 40, CA |
There are two situations that would allow the woman to marry again, and anyone to marry her in accordance with Scripture:
1) If her husband was unfaithful. However, if his unfaithfulness was influenced by her unfaithfulness, then we have a different situation.
2) If her husband divorced her against her desire to stay married. His decision was based on his own desires to divorce. And again, his decision must be free of influence from her.
In simple terms, some people who identify themselves as Christians may try to influence their spouses to divorce them by making their lives miserable in every aspect except committing adultery; and when the spouse does divorce, they would consider themselves "free" because the spouse was the one who divorced. But God cannot be fooled by such a supposed "legal loophole." God knows the hearts and intents of every person.
The only way this pastor can be free of practicing sin is if the wife, sincerely, tried to stay together with her ex-husband but he left. Or, he was unfaithful to her, because of his own desires to do so and not because she had influenced him.
Now, this is not to say that a man who is influenced by his wife to commit adultery will not pay the consequence of his sin. In situations where the wife influences the man to commit adultery so that she can be "free," and the man does so, both will face the consequence of divorce outside of the boundaries permitted by Jesus Christ.
I hope this answers your question.
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Divorce and Remarriage
| Posted On: 12/20/07 01:52:58 PM |
Age 52, WI |
I can see from 1 Corinthians and the gospels where a person is allowed to separate/divorce under certain circumstances, but nowhere can I find Scripture which specifically allows remarriage. In fact, in Romans chapter 7, Paul states that someone who tries to be married to their sin and Christ commits spiritual adultery, and to underline his point he uses the law (which he says is holy and just and good)which states "if while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if the husband be dead, she is free from that law..." While Paul used the Mosaic law to to reinforce our marriage to Christ, at the same time he categorically disallowed remarriage.
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