re: terrible untruth
| Posted On: 12/12/07 10:59:03 PM |
Age 30, IA |
"That's ok for you. I don't believe the Bible. I'm fine living by the Laozi and Juangzi and Sunzi." That's what I said 6 years ago.
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WHAT DO WE SAY
| Posted On: 12/12/07 04:03:27 PM |
Age 64, OH |
What do we say and what words do we give them. We do the same as Jesus did; he said everything they Father told him to say and said nothing unless the Father told him to say it. The scriptures tell us to prepare ourselves and when the time comes we will BE GIVEN WORDS to speak the same as Paul was. If the Holy Spirit quotes scripture then by all means do so. Speak whatever the Holy Spirit tells you to speak. Lou
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Bullwhip Guy misses the point.
| Posted On: 12/12/07 10:47:16 AM |
Age 51, MN |
The Bullwhip Guy parody misses the point of the Bullhorn Guy. There is no comparison between Jesus exposing religious frauds in the temple and our proclaiming the gospel to the lost on the street. Rob Bell may espouse some problematic theology, but he clearly wins this round.
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Seeking the Truth.
| Posted On: 12/10/07 05:54:06 PM |
Age 42, KS |
My first response was that the video "Bullwhip Guy" was not so bad. Having read some comments I can see the other side of the issue. My original concern however was that when using scripture it is imperative to use a more reliable translation. By using a literal translation such as the King James Version (translated from the most reliable manuscripts) we can see even more plainly what the Word of God is saying. However, I am not so sure that anything short of prayer and fasting and of course the work of the Holy Spirit will reach those who have been deceived. I have had conversations with my brother-in-law about Rob Bell and the KJV and he simply does not (want to) see the truth. The man who brought the Rob Bell video into the church I attended (my brother-in-law's church) got rather hostile when I told him of my concerns about Rob Bell. Previously I had said little more than hello or had small talk with this man. There was no reason for him to react the way he did except for demonic influences. I called Rob Bell a heretic and I was not sarcastic or strident (as I was labeled). This man informed me that he was going to get the entire video series for the church. This was the last time I attended that church. I thought that maybe I could be an influence but I was wrong.
I do not think that sarcasm is all that effective. The length of the "Bullwhip Guy" video is perhaps too long for anyone to make any real comparison to "Bullhorn Guy". When put on Youtube it may just be castng pearls before swine and confusing the lost. I find it best to confront error with truth, and then let the chips fall where they may. It is the Holy Spirit's job to convict lost sinners of sin and errant believers of errors.
P.S. I have never been good at sarcasm. I think it is an art and perhaps best left to comedians. Theologians be careful, and pray.
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excuse me???
| Posted On: 12/08/07 08:37:13 PM |
Age 48, IL |
So what do you say when you witness to someone, what words do you give them???!!!! A lost soul doesn't have the Holy Spirit, God's word is the key to shining the light into a dark heart. Once enlightened, and regenerated, then the power of the word is unleashed within our hearts and nourishes us daily. When man feels it necessary to 'take matters into his own hands, that's when people become confused, and ultimately, are just as lost as the confused person who is twisting the scriptures and trying some 'new' approach...
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augustine quote
| Posted On: 12/08/07 07:59:57 PM |
Age 27, IN |
Thank you so much for writing this, Steve. It made me think of something that I read in Augustine's Confessions. It's not refering to doctrine, but questions. The sentiment, though, is similar.
"How, then, shall I respond to him who asks, 'What was God doing before He made heaven and earth?' I do not answer, as a certain one is reported to have done facetiously (shrugging off the force of the question), 'He was preparing hell,' he said, 'for those who pry too deep.' It is one thing to see the answer; it is another to laugh at the questioner- and for myself I do not answer these things thus. More willingly would I have answered, 'I do not know what I do not know,' than cause one who asked a deep question to be ridiculed- and by such tactics gain praise for a worthless answer"
And as for Rob Bell, I actually just finished Velvet Elvis, tonight. I'd been avoiding it because it was so fadish, but I finally broke down:) I did find several problems with the book, but they weren't super offensive to me, because of Rob's attitude. On the back cover, he, himself, exhorts his readers, "We have to test everything... Test it. Probe it. Do that to this book. Don't swallow it uncritically. Think about it. Wrestle with it. Just because I'm a Christian doesn't mean I've got it nailed. I'm contributing to the discussion. God has spoken, and the rest is commentary, right?"
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Bull Whip Guy misses the point
| Posted On: 12/08/07 09:08:25 AM |
Age 51, MN |
The parody misses the point. There's no comparison between Jesus' judgment of religious frauds and our proclamation of the gospel to the lost. If Rob Bell has seen the parody, he's probably laughing because it merely proves the point he made in the Bullhorn Guy--that fundamentalists come across as judgmental and irrelevant. Since the parody actually backires, it makes Steve's point stronger.
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Bible has no power
| Posted On: 12/08/07 08:58:52 AM |
Age 47, MO |
Actually Friend, the power of scripture is NOT enough. The words have no power, the bible is just a book, and words only make mental pictures filtered thru self or Spirit. Let me explain. Jesus is the Word. The Bible is a book of words but has no power if not discerned in Spirit and Truth. Therefore, the Holy Spirit will lead us and change us thru the authority of the Word (Christ). The power is Christ, not the words we use. This is why we can quote scripture all day, have a form of Godliness and yet deny the power. John
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Are you kidding me??
| Posted On: 12/07/07 10:02:08 PM |
Age 34, NC |
Steve, while I appreciate your candid view on the sarcasm of Christianity, I think that your view is way off basis! There's absolutely nothing wrong [in my opinion] with "Bullwhip Guy". He's making a very clear point with the comparison of Robb Bell's attempted twist on Scripture and the Gospel WITHIN it for that matter. The sarcasm is merely for the use of uncovering the truth from within those who present a lie. I don't promote those that would be belligerently putting down others, yet I do think sarcasm can and does have a place regarding a false teaching.
Steve, the ultimate sarcasm that has ever been used was by God. I mean, if we really took a look at ourselves through the mirror of God's law thereby recognizing the truth, then thinking we're good all on our own is just flat out wrong. All I'm saying is that sometimes it's just TOO BAD that certain "sermons" and view points are sarcastic. It's justified when the heart of a false teaching runs rampant throughout Christendom trying to taint it in the process. Christianity is something we definitely have to fight for! Are we not provoked by the Word to "fight the good fight of faith"? 1Tim.6:12 I don't think that the author meant pillow fighting. Just my thoughts. <Eric<
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terrible untruth
| Posted On: 12/07/07 10:55:27 AM |
Age 48, IL |
Simply reciting Scripter to non-believers will not bring anyone to Christ...
When I saw this in one of the posts, my heart sank. Since when is the power of God's word not enough? Jesus said, 'It is written' and proceed ed to quote Deuteronomy to Satan, which caused him to leave our Lord's presence. God warns us not to add to or take away from His word, 'Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar' Proverbs 30:6. The word of God is living and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart..Hebrews 4:12
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Cheap Shot
| Posted On: 12/07/07 10:32:51 AM |
Age 52, TN |
I wasn't addressing Todd in my post. I was directing my concerns to the Bullwhip Guy video in response to the Bullhorn Guy video.
As to Todd and Doug Pagitt; I thought the interview was very weak. He allowed Doug to control the flow of the interview; failed to keep the gospel central to the discussion and Doug's skewed, Pelagian beliefs; he became argumentative; and nothing of real value was produced.
I like Todd very much and thank the Lord for his ministry. But many of us as Christian apologists and Bible teachers were concerned over the content of that interview. There were many things that Doug could have been challenged on, but unfortunately were not.
With any key emergent figure, you must keep the gospel and its essentials central to any discussion. Doug went down that esoteric path of "is heaven a real place..." Todd never silenced that ridiculous line of thinking with Scripture--he was trying logic, and frankly, Doug was smarter and better at his own "theological around the barn game" than Todd was. There are several passages (like John 14:1-5) that Todd could have brought to his attention, but did not.
I have no reservation that Todd will learn from this and won't make the same mistake next time. BTW, I am trying to reach Doug by phone (we've exchanged emails) to record an interview about his views of the gospel. Please be praying the Lord would bring that about to His glory and for His eternal purposes.
Grace and peace,
Steve
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Cheap Shot
| Posted On: 12/07/07 12:35:55 AM |
Age 52, TN |
I wasn't talking about Todd; I was talking about the Bullwhip Guy video.
I thought Todd did a fine job in his segments.
Steve.
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I am not referring to Todd
| Posted On: 12/07/07 12:31:47 AM |
Age 52, TN |
Dear friend in the Lord:
I wasn't referring to Todd or even TeamPyro. I was referring to the Bullwhip Guy video--that's all.
Please forgive me for any confusion...
Grace and peace,
Steve
2 Cor. 4:5-7
PS - I thought Todd did a fine job in his segments.
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Sarcasm
| Posted On: 12/06/07 10:23:03 PM |
Age 27, ND |
A few others beat me to what I was going to post. Paul and the prophet Elijah both used sarcasm in different situations. Also What do you think of Todd Friel's response to the Bullhorn Guy video? I'm very curious please email. Thanks bro!
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Thank you!
| Posted On: 12/06/07 09:31:52 PM |
Age 45, MO |
Steve,
I really appreciate your article! I agree with you -- I couldn't have said it better. :)
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Sarcasm or humor
| Posted On: 12/06/07 08:10:08 PM |
Age 43, IL |
The parody was humorous and yes a bit sarcastic, but as someone else already said, a very illuminating rebuttal of Mr. Bells "intense" and "enlightened" view of God. It really does show where the error is. Name calling and attacking a person directly is never appropriate. But this U tube video did not do that. It addressed the ideas of Rob Bell, not the person of Rob Bell. In fact it didn't even mention the mans name. Only those familiar with his bull horn guy (which I was not) would recognize the association. But I did recognize the concepts held by many a so called generation X christian, which believe that generations past have done it all wrong and have misrepresented Christ, the Bible, God, and the role of man on Earth.
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Tent making guy
| Posted On: 12/06/07 07:48:33 PM |
Age 54, PA |
Steve, please read a little further in Galatians. I guess according to your standards Paul was out of line: "I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!" Galatians 5:12, ESV)
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Thank you!
| Posted On: 12/06/07 07:07:04 PM |
Age 24, FL |
Dear brother! Thank you so much for this timely reminder! We are in an age where the past generations have taught this generation that some of the world's thinking and ways of doing things are okay. We are definitely needing to hear more and more messages reminding us of the foundation of God's Word. Ken Ham puts it that our country doesn't need a revival, what our country needs is a reformation - getting back to the foundation. I think he's right and we are praying in that direction! ~ May God continue to bless you and use you as you seek Him first and serve Him!
your friend and a fellow servant of Christ,
Steven : )
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Cheap Shot
| Posted On: 12/06/07 06:10:05 PM |
Age 43, TX |
In the article Mr. Camp said, "...by humor that is designed to only degrade another person or just make fun of ones beliefs so that we can appear as being more righteous ourselves".
I HAVE heard Todd Friel try to be reasonable with Doug Pagitt on his show. Mr. Camp, I would invite you to explain to Doug Pagitt that Heaven is a real "place". I've heard Todd Friel witness to many lost people on the show and he explains the Gospel in a concise and loving way. He IS sarcastic when he's talking about false prophets and heresies, but you can hear the pain in his voice and get the feeling that these blasphemies really bother him. He's far from self-righteous. Keep the faith, brother Todd. You're in our prayers.
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This is an interesting topic
| Posted On: 12/06/07 05:44:34 PM |
Age 20, CANADA |
God has opened my eyes in the past few months to some of the error happening in the churches and is coming through a lot of the emerging church teachings. I am so thankful! I was doing some research on Rob Bell two days ago, when I came across that exact video (Bullwhip guy) that you mentioned. I was also angered by this, and I don't believe that was the best way to address some of Bell's erroneous teaching. Strangely, I also posted about this on my blog recently. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thinks that there are likely better ways to address error than to mock a person's personality, etc. And in no way should we should show disrespect to the one true God in the process of pointing out error. That is unacceptable, I agree.
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