Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 11:27:14 PM |
Age 31, TX |
I'm unsure if Todd is trying to say, "Don't forget the truths of God's character!" or if he's trying to say, "Out with the lovey feeling Jesus."
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The first I agree with, the second I do not.
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We *need* to know that God is Holy, King, Lord, Righteous, Just. We need to know the sacrifice Jesus made for us on the cross.
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But we also need to know how He feels about us. Reducing God's love for us to only, "I love you despite how I feel," implies that He has less than fond affections for us. Yipes!
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In John 15 and 16, Jesus says that He loves us the way the Father loves the Son, and the Father loves us in that same way as well. How does God the Father love God the Son? How does the Father feel about Jesus?
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Reading through the Old Testament, I see horribly wayward people. But I also see a broken hearted God. Even by Genesis 6 I see that. Of the wickedness of man it says, "The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain." Reading that just breaks my heart...the love He must have felt felt for His creation for His heart to be "filled with pain" at their waywardness. Also, when Israel went out to battle, the Levites often lead the way, singing of God's neverending love. Then all through the prophets, God compares His relationship to His people of that of a husband and wife. Psalms and Song of Songs have already been mentioned. Then at the end, in Revelation, we see a wedding.
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I'll mention one more thing -- "Needy, emotional women continue to need more counseling, self help books and conferences where they can spread their wings and soar." I do not understand the basis for this. I'm 31 and single and know many other single women my age. Most are needy and emotional, longing for a husband. And they have little to no concept of Jesus as Bridegroom, while God started speaking the idea to me when I was 16, so I'm not experiencing what many do as a single in her 30s.
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Oddly enough, once when I was feeling particularly emotional and needy, I read only Song of Songs for 2 weeks, and it completely brought calm to me. Yeah, I thought it was weird too. But seeing that kind of love for me calmed me. How often does God say, "I am with you"? It seems like there's something to just knowing that He's with us.
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I was also under the impression that the number of men attending church had been declining from before the "love songs to Jesus" started coming out.
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Finally, I think there's a difference between knowledge and real *knowing*. How often I've discovered that, while I have the knowledge that Jesus loves me, I don't actually know it. I don't have the experience. The difference between book learning and hands on learning. I don't always have the experience, so I also must simply rely on the truth, but the experiences are also there.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 10:59:25 PM |
Age 19, CA |
Fantastic!!! This has needed to be said for a long time. I myself am a professional musician and composer, and I have been fed up with self-centered worship songs for quite some time. The focus of almost all worship songs today is consistently on the needs of self: self-worship instead of God worship.
God does in fact love us no question, but He is disgusted with our sin. We are not really the beautiful, love-worthy little beings that God drools over like modern worship says, but rather much more like what the author of Proverbs says: like rags covered in excrement. On the flip side, we are to love God with our HEART, soul, and mind, but the basis of this relationship with Christ is our obedience, not our feelings: "...if you love me, you will obey my commands." Obedience to Christ (our sanctification) is the basis of our relationship to God.
This should be the focus of worship. Just like the hymns written in past centuries did beautifully, honoring God through obedience and worship is to be the center of of worship, not us and how we feel.
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Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 10:36:51 PM |
Age 31, TX |
Is this the song you're talking about?
Above All by Michael W Smith
Above all powers
Above all kings
Above all nature
And all created things
Above all wisdom
And all the ways of man
You were here
Before the world began
Verse 2
Above all kingdoms
Above all thrones
Above all wonders
The world has ever known
Above all wealth
And treasures of the earth
There's no way to measure
What You're worth
CHORUS
Crucified
Laid behind a stone
You lived to die
Rejected and alone
Like a rose
Trampled on the ground
You took the fall
And thought of me
Above all
I can see how one would be uncertain about "..and thought of me, above all," but most of this song states how Jesus is above all, talks about His work on the cross, and to top it off, He thought of us above His comfort, safety, and security, which is very much true.
How much different is it from, "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son."
I didn't expect so many of the comments I've been reading. I'll post more of my response to the article in another post, but in my life I have very much needed a God who is near me and will hug me. This should never lessen the need for Him to be righteous and holy and awesome as well. I respect and revere Him greatly. I can't imagine the burning white light of His holiness. How much more astounding the nearness and reality of His tender love.
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Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 10:28:45 PM |
Age 61, NEW ZEALAND |
For those who want to start praising the Lord as we will in eternity, a look at Revelation 5 will give an idea of the kind of thing that will be appropriate. I don't see any carooning about love in that song! Rather reverant humble thanks with awe.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 09:19:02 PM |
Age 41, PA |
Amen! Thank you for speaking the truth with courage and courtesy. I am part of a worship team at my church and I hate, yes HATE these mushy, gooey, girly, love songs! Yes I love Jesus, but only because He first loved me. His love is so much deeper than our weak and adolescent comprehension of His love. He DIED for me, He did not give me a hug. Thank you Todd!
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 07:46:07 PM |
Age 44, KS |
I kinda have to disagree with you about raomance in song with regards to Jesus. He is the brideroom and we are His bride. Mention of marriage and our relationship to God is quite prvelant in scripture. Sex and its climax could be seen as a physical metephor for the experience of heaven. Marriage is multi-faceted and I really don't think eliminating romance between Christ and His bride is going to enhance the relationship.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 06:32:23 PM |
Age 38, TN |
AMEN!!!
I have found myself not listening to contemporary Christian music anymore for just these reasons.
What's worse is that this trend has bled into the Church's worship ministry as well.
I find myself sooooo distracted by these mushy lyrics that I often don't sing. I use this time for prayer.
Don't get me started on the 7-11 songs either. (7 words long and repeated 11 times)
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 06:21:08 PM |
Age 45, SINGAPORE |
Thank you for this article. I belong to the contemporary part of the church that sings these 'silly love songs' and most of the time they do evoke much love and gratitude for Jesus- atleast the ones that we sing- which are mostly from the Hillsongs repertoire. But there have been many many times that I have felt exactly like what Todd has expressed. There is a sensuous familiarity in these sentiments which doesn't sit well with me. We really have reduced the High and Mighty One to the boy next door and its quite disgusting! However, to be fair, true worship really is contingent on the extent that we have surrendered our lives to the Lord and some of these songs do drip with anointing and certainly help in expressing the deepest longings of the soul. So I do the next best thing. I judge and discern the spirit behind the words and just keep my mouth closed if my heart is not echoing what my lips are repeating. Praise the Lord, that hasn't happened too often- we're still a bit conservative here in Asia.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 06:07:26 PM |
Age 38, TN |
AMEN!!!! Todd this is a wonderful article. I have been trying to express what is wrong with the "new" church music for a long time. There is so much wrong with it, I have a hard time finding anything positive to say about it. My friend alerted me to your article. We have found one church in our area where we can sing hymns while holding a hymnal without having to look at screens. She and her family have just joined and my husband and I are right behind her. Pastors and "worship leaders" need to listen up and wise up. There are a discerning few who know the real thing when we hear it. There is a lack of singing about the sacrifice of our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ because we are too busy singing about ourselves and OUR needs. I'm sick of all of it. Thanks again.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 06:05:24 PM |
Age 62, CO |
Boy am I glad somebody has finally said this about modern "Christian" music!
I refuse to sing any "la la" songs and much of the music is so vapid I simply cannot listen to it! There is some very very good stuff .... this I love. But I have to listen carefully .. Is it "me" music? Or does it Praise the Lord and tell the Truth about his Grace, Mercy, Justice!
Wake up Church!
ND
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 05:48:02 PM |
Age 21, MO |
The point of all the theology though is to say, "Oh my beloved!" I agree that we need theology in songs Todd, but if we completely forget about the love part we become a brood of vipers. If we don't have love for the savior because of what he has done and if we don't have love for the Father because of his righteous and just judgments and if we don't have love for the Holy Spirit for renewing our minds and giving us groans that we can't express then we are worthless. Don't completely leave love out. I am a 21 year old man deeply in love with MY, yes my, Jesus. I am unashamed to say it. I worship the Jesus that has robes stained in blood and will come back to slaughter all the ones who are unrighteous. It is manly to love the Jesus I worship. I am unashamed to say I am part of the bride of Christ and if I get taken away in love at times, that is great. There are also those times where I am not in the honeymoon though and I choose to love him. It isn't always easy but I will always choose to love him. Besides, this is what I am going to be doing for the rest of eternity giving him worship as his bride anyway so... Why not start now?
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 05:34:30 PM |
Age 31, NY |
I really liked this article, which is a first for me and Worldview Weekend, which I generally only read for amusement or alarm at what the extremists are up to lately. I'm a liberal Mainline Protestant and not interested in going to hebbin if you guys (right-wingers) are the only ones there. But I liked it, I really did, not in the least because I disdain Air Supply. One woman I know of a more evangelical background called a lot of the contemporary Christian dreck "Jesus is My boyfriend" music. I agree. Except for Bill Gaither there's hardly a religious song written after 1910 worth listening to IMO. Thanks for a good one.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 05:09:49 PM |
Age 38, AL |
I completely agree. As a man I often hear lyrics in a song and think "I can't say that stuff". Women can say how "in love" they are with Jesus and it seems more natural...man-woman kind of thing.BUT, Jesus is "King of Kings and Lord of lords" and this romantic view that some express of Jesus makes a lot of men uncomfortable and unable to participate in worship b/c they can't relate to the Jesus that these lyrics attempt to glorify. It also causes some of us to struggle with our own salvation b/c Satan will attack and tell you "see, none of the other men in the worship service had a problem calling Jesus 'lover of my soul', so you probably don't have the real thing". Maybe that's just a personal issue of mine. Do these lyrics cause men to have confusion about Jesus? Even further, do these lyrics lead women to think of Jesus as a lover? Shouldn't a man and woman's concept of a relationship with Jesus be somewhat parallel? Thanks for the article; it's good to know I am not alone.
Chase M. Black
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 05:03:39 PM |
Age 41, CANADA |
Whether you agree or disagree with Todd, you gotta love his directness. In this case, I do agree. I have to say amen and 2 thumbs up to this article.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 04:55:35 PM |
Age 46, VT |
Todd, You really need to be more clear and to the point with your opinions. [cough] Seriously, I could not agree with you more, sir. Thank you for this. My teenage daughter and I have been volleying on this topic recently. One afternoon, buoyed by your talk on this on [WOTM] radio, I passed along your remarks about a girl (Christian) singer. You would think that I had just renamed the color pink. Don't worry, Todd, I not only passed the opinion along, I [ducking] owned them first. Keep up the good work, and God bless you, brother. Thanks for serving our King.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 04:52:34 PM |
Age 59, CANADA |
I very much agree with you, Todd. I once heard a "worship" song sung by a young woman who swayed and sang, "Jesus, I long to kiss your lips..." Yuck! The other thing that annoys me is when the instruments are so loud that you can't hear one word--they could just as easily be singing praises to the evil one as to our King Jesus. I especially like Messianic Jewish (Christian) praise music--it is lively without being mushy or repetitive.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 04:49:55 PM |
Age 27, OK |
I cannot tell you how many times I've turned on the radio to hear love-sick Christian singing, "As the deer pants for streams of water, so my soul pants for you..." or worse, "Your love is better than life..."
Oh wait. Those were biblical examples of worship songs. Psalm 42 and 63, respectively. Nevermind then.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 04:36:31 PM |
Age 55, TN |
The comparison of sacred and profane love goes back all the way to the Bible. Please see the Song of Solomon. Also, the Apostle Paul calls the church the Bride of Christ. He calls it a great mystery. I'm content to let it be that.
The tradition continued with such carols as "Tomorrow Shall Be My Dancing Day."
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 03:34:35 PM |
Age 20, MS |
The word limit prevents me from posting my full critique; however, here are a few thoughts.
Firstly, my critique has little to do with my own opinion on the matter. There are a number of praise and worship songs I object to being sung by a congregation, though for different reasons. My objection to this article is that the argument was presented poorly. Here are a few examples.
- “[W]e use “love” in romantic ways to sing about God.”
The implication of this statement is that this is a bad thing. However, your article provides no reasoning for -why- there is something wrong with this. Since the Bible makes frequent analogies of romantic love to describe God’s love for His people (cf. Ezekiel 16, Jeremiah 3, the entire book of Hosea, arguably the Song of Solomon, Isaiah 62:5, Revelation 19, Ephesians 5:22ff, etc.), the burden of proof is on you to illustrate why writing romantic love songs to God is objectionable; that is, what is the difference between what the Bible states and what songwriters illustrate with their lyrics?
- “[W]e have added other romantic phrases to our Christian music repertoire: hold me, embrace me, feel you, need you. This criticism is not new, in fact, it has existed since Godly men began endeavoring to sing anything but the Psalms.”
You did a little better with this one by providing the opinion of one other person who disagreed with romantic phrasing. However, just because John Wesley said something doesn’t make it true. Why should the reader agree with John Wesley’s opinion?
- “Christian men sing with such romantic longing and neediness it makes me want to scream, ‘Man up!’”
That interjection implies a rather stereotypical view of what manhood is. Is “romantic longing” not a manly emotion? I hope all married men romantically long for their wives, and (this part -is- my opinion on the subject) if marriage is an analogy for Christ and the Church, I hope all Christians do long for God in a very similar way.
- “Needy, emotional women continue to need more counseling, self help books and conferences where they can spread their wings and soar.”
- “Men simply are not showing up for church.”
It’s a bold move to present claims without attempting to corroborate them. I haven’t researched this matter, but perhaps you have. Could you provide examples of churches which use the type of songs you’re critiquing, perhaps some numbers of throaty-breathy-voiced women who purchase self-help books or frequent counselors, or statistics of male attendance over several years at such churches? Or a comparison of counseling/book purchases and church attendance at contemporary churches as compared to traditional churches? Otherwise, how is the reader to believe that these are in fact the consequences you suggest? How do I know that these phenomena have any connection to such songs?
Finally, I found this article through a discussion forum I frequent. If you would like to see the discussion pertaining to your writing or even participate, go to http://www.teddekker.com/index.php?&content=community&sub=board&com=board&brd=topic_224137__0#p6669506 I have some comments in that thread as well, but I think I said it all here.
In His hands,
~Zoe <><
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 03:31:26 PM |
Age 56, WI |
this is so true. only what do we as God fearing people do? we sit back and do nothing to change things. things are getting worse by the day and most of us go with the flow careful not to make waves
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