Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 10:13:34 AM |
Age 32, FL |
There is no call in the Scriptures for any individual believer to desire a physical sexual relationship with Jesus. This is the heart of the matter when dealing with romantic imagery as described in the article. The Church is the Bride, not any individual. Jesus is not coming to marry you, He is coming to retrieve His followers and to defeat His enemies. It is unnatural (and illogical) for any person to believe that a physical sexual relationship such as between a man and woman is what God intends for Jesus and His Church. This false imagery leads men to be uncomfortable because of our natural revulsion to homosexuality and it leads women to place unrealistic expectations on the men in their lives who can never be the perfect Man. Jesus doesn't Eros you, He Agapes and Phileos you.
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Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 10:01:19 AM |
Age 32, FL |
David Murrow wrote an excellent book on the over-feminization of the modern church in his book Why Men Hate Going To Church. Included in his work is an examination of music style and the attendance patterns of men. You can check out his site at www.churchformen.com
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 09:58:59 AM |
Age 49, MO |
AMEN!!! THANK YOU!!! I can hardly stand
going to church anymore, and I've been in
church all my life! And I'm in the Bible
Belt! I believe most of our pastors need
to take heed to all the verses in Jeremiah
that start out with 'Woe to the Shepherds..'!
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Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 09:57:36 AM |
Age 32, FL |
Yeah, we should NEVER sing songs that the very feminine King David wrote!
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Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 09:20:19 AM |
Age 53, OH |
Age 44, KS Wrote:
I kinda have to disagree with you about romance in song with regards to Jesus. He is the brideroom and we are His bride.
I only have this to say: If you are a male, it sounds as if you expect a homosexual relation with Jesus! If you are female, it sounds as if you would cheat on your spouse with Jesus! If this sounds terrible, you shouldn't even be thinking this way. I am never going to be Jesus'"bride." The bridal imagery is applicable to the church collectively. Just as we might picture a nation as our "Motherland," or a ship as a female, we can see the church collectively as a bride. But a citizen is not the husband of his or her country, and a sailor is not the wife of the U.S. Navy.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 09:07:46 AM |
Age 38, WI |
Todd's article represents the extreme view of the contemporary worship movement. I would agree that a lack of balance will eventually hurt a congregation, but as with everything in life, it seems that once the pendulum has been stuck so far in one direction (dry liturgical hymns in King James English, but with great theology), that it has now swung all the way over the other side (worship songs that stirs emotion and little theology). You see these types of swings throughout biblical and church history, but the pendulum eventually will end up back in the middle (biblical worship) again where it belongs.
BTW Todd, love the Way of the Master training! It’s the hallmark of our personal evangelism training at our church!
Pastor John Oscar
Evangelism Pastor
Prayer House Assembly of God
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 09:01:15 AM |
Age 73, ID |
Nauseous and unscriptural. The generic "you" defines no one and can mean whatever or whoever the singer wishes. Wiccans or agnostics, etc in a church service can freely insert the title/name of their diety, get away with it and laugh at the sloppy agape unlearned "christians". YOU does not get it.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 08:49:13 AM |
Age 54, MN |
I posted earlier that I play for two worship teams.
It's my opinion that the music style is part of the problem. Contemporary worship has its roots in rock/pop which come with their own bias and limitations.
Rock comes with a reputation. Much of it is heavy with sex. The songs that promote the sexual aspect tend to be more driving, stronger - lets call it "male."
This style, say the Rolling Stones or Led Zeplin, don't translate well to worship. (Although some have tried.)
Therefore, contemporary worship tends to borrow from the softer "female" pop feel of rock.
Comtermprary worship has become unbalanced with this softer feel - and men are tuninig out.
Now, dear reader, before you respond with a Pavlov dog response about stereotyping let me point you towards Beethoven. Go listen to his 9th Symphony. It had power, majesty, pathos, and truth. It was male.
Stop salivating. There is nothing wrong with male - is there. Didn't God make us male and female?
We need to find a way to express the male side of worship without sounding like the Rolling Stones and Black Sabath - or Barry Manilow.
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Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 08:25:42 AM |
Age 40, OH |
Bleh - I refuse to listen to most of that sappy contemporary stuff - it's just a bad copy of secular music.
I'm into gospel - something intense - if you want to love Jesus, do it through Praise.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 07:52:18 AM |
Age 28, IL |
I wasn't sure where the title of this article would lead. So what the heck...I decided to give it a read. I've come to the conclusion that I disagree with this article (although not completely). Yes, there are MANY songs out there that have way too many "la la la's" and I refuse to sing them. Seriously, can't we come up with something to say to God other than "la la" about 10-15 times. However, that said, we cannot forget that love for Christ and expressing that love in song is absolutely Biblical! BALANCE...there must be balance!!! A little of both types of music (theology based hymns and love based contemporary music) is fine. I guess my biggest problem with this article is that is seems to be written to spark debate for the sake of debate instead of presenting a more level-headed article that deals with issue even-handedly. Only my opinion. Thanks.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 07:46:20 AM |
Age 58, VA |
Bad theology in a sermon will hurt the immediate listeners. Bad theology in a hymn will destroy the kingdom, the music and the lyrics go deep and stick tight. The storefront ranter may hit the mark on law and gospel, the low knowledge songwriter will push his ignorance as deep as any good content but the listener can't quickly discern the difference.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 07:40:36 AM |
Age 33, TX |
The sad thing is that these love songs are making it into the divine service and replacing Hymns. Hymns (ok good Lutheran hymns) are derived from the Bible and teach a scripture lesson. I have not listened to Christian Contempt is 7 years b/c I realized they are teaching the wrong msg of Christ. Christ did love us but that involved dying a brutal death on a Cross, descending to hell, and rising again showing he defeated sin, death, and the devil.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 07:32:47 AM |
Age 59, CANADA |
I think that what we need to define is just how this emotional music might be/might not be helpful to the worshiper. Our Lord Jesus is the King of Kings in addition to being the lover of our souls. An appreciation for the power of and the requirement to "fear" Him is often the first step to a genuine faith. Worship music that leaves out this vital truth is not very helpful to that realization. When we emphasize Jesus' humanity (and I believe that is what we do with much of the mush)it is to lose track of His Majesty which is essential to a true worship experience, IMO. He is not "a really good man" and nothing more--He is the Lord of Lords. One of the most stirring pieces of Christian music ever, is Handel's Messiah. It emphasizes His love but it always upholds the notion of His majesty.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 07:24:25 AM |
Age 51, KY |
I thank God someone finally had the guts to speak up about the sugar-coated drippy so-called worship music in the church. True worship ALWAYS points to Jesus and His deity.I knew the church was in trouble when I first heard, "Lord of the Dance" many years ago. A far difference from "A Mighty Fortress is our God." The writer is correct about the "breathyness" that some singers think they have to use. Just what IS that all about???? I can only think there are some that are out to magnify themselves as they love the applaud of men rather than seeing the Lord Jesus get the glory. Short choruses are good if they truly point to Jesus. But few do these days. Most point back to self. But isn't that what the modern day gosple is about anyway? How we can feel better about ourselves? How to have more self-esteem... blah blah blah. I can just imagine what would happen if all the churches began singing in one accord, "Onward Christian Soldiers." Why, we might be called fanatics. We might get summoned as being politically incorrect. But at least we would be singing the truth and our God would be getting the glory He deserves. Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto Me." This is rarely being done today. God have mercy.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 07:11:18 AM |
Age 45, IN |
I agree with what Todd was saying. Our culture (the world) has squeezed too many Christians into its mold. "Feeling" God's presence has become the proof to many people that they are connected to God. True faith, without which it is impossible to please God, is not proven by feelings. Faith ulimately comes by reading and hearing God's Word. How we feel at the moment never determines our relationship with God. It only shows us where we are focusing our attention, on Him or on our current circumstances. Even Jesus was in agony over His coming sacrifice, yet that did not determine His position with His Father.
I'm sure that these song writers are sincere in wanting to express their love to God, but that does not make their method right.
We need to examine everything under the light of God's Word.
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Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 06:59:37 AM |
Age 52, NJ |
With you 100%. I was unfortunately relieved last Sunday when it was announced that our "praise team" could no longer support our Sunday early service. Check out Coach Dave at Pass the Salt ministries. He's been beating this drum for quite awhile.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 04:57:30 AM |
Age 43, TX |
Orthodox Churches are not having trouble keeping men in the services.
http://www.frederica.com/writings/men-and-church.html
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Re: Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 02:51:27 AM |
Age 50, TX |
I agree with most of what the author wrote. I think we have become too touchy/feely. No, I'm not a guy. I'm a grandmother.
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One of my favorite hymns:
THE SOLID ROCK
1. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus' Name.
CHORUS: On Christ the Solid Rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand.
2. When darkness seems to hide his face, I rest on his unchanging grace; In ev'ry high and stormy gale, my anchor holds within the veil.
CHORUS: On Christ the Solid Rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand.
3. His oath, his covenant, his blood support me in the whelming flood; when all around my soul gives way, He then is all my hope and stay.
CHORUS: On Christ the Solid Rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand.
4. When he shall come with trumpet sound, Oh, may I then in Him be found; Dressed in His righteousness alone, Faultless to stand before the throne.
CHORUS: On Christ the Solid Rock I stand. All other ground is sinking sand. All other ground is sinking sand.
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Music: I, IV, V and V7 chords only that I can see from a quick glimpse. VERY simple musically. Very singable.
Lyrics: 13 words to the chorus. The four verses reference life experiences as well as spiritual truths found in several different Bible passages. Phrases that bring different biblical phrases to mind are used throughout the verses. I like that. It helps to reinforce truth.
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Culturally, I think that Christians are following the downward trend of the world's pop musical styles to our detriment.
However, I sense that this is a symptom... not the disease.
I have nearly stopped buying CCM. Too many times I have been sickened to buy something, bring it home and listen to it one time and realize that I will not listen to it again -- because it is cliche and predictable. There is not much depth. I feel like I've wasted another ten or fifteen dollars that could have been much better spent.
No, I'm not entirely against the simple love songs. But to have most of the worship music built around those kinds of songs??????
I think we can do better than that.
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/28/07 01:20:33 AM |
Age 47, CA |
I have heard many critics bewail the lack of deep theology in modern Christian music as opposed to the 'classic' hymns. I agree, but I also note a conspicuous lack of new hymns. Perhaps the critics should not "curse the darkness [but] light a candle."
Put another way, the only way we're going to have better songs to sing is if somebody starts writing them.
On a related theme, has anyone other than me noted the difficulty in researching the lyrics of contemporary Christian songs on the Internet? The most vulgar, degrading secular 'songs' are readily available anywhere, but try to find the words to most CC songs and you finally wind up paying to see them at some licensing agency site. Something is badly wrong with that picture. It's only the words, artists. "Freely ye have received, freely give."
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Re: Jesus Just Wants to Give You a Hug?
| Posted On: 11/27/07 11:48:42 PM |
Age 43, AUSTRALIA |
Todd, I believe you are spot on! Whilst love is a vital part of our relationship with Jesus, it should also be noted that in the bible, the love of God is always directed to the redeemed - to those in a relationship with Him! The word that the bible is riddled with is 'righteousness', & sadly so few songs express this, & also the need for us to have sacrificial love as Christ exemplified. I encourage anyone to get hold of a brilliant teaching on John 3:16 by English bible scholar David Pawson, (who has a website in USA, just 'google' it to locate it)who gives a thorough, clear explanation how this verse has been totally mis-used by the Church. Yes, love is important in our relationship with Jesus, but not a twisted, fairly floss, fluffy love, but a sacrificial, self-less love is what Jesus desires. Could someone please write songs that are a blessing to God, that He would love to hear, instead of songs all based on our needs,wants, desires!!!????
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