Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/20/07 03:46:38 PM |
Age 36, IL |
A few elements of this article confuse me:
1) What rubric are you using to determine that Hillary is the "staunchest [supporter] of legalized abortion among [her] [party]"? How is she more in favor of abortion than Kucinich (for example)? How does her position differ so strongly from Obama as to make her stauncher?
2) Why do you presume lack of church attendance is a good measure of "rejecting God"? If the church isn't being Godly, wouldn't a refusal to go there be embracing God? Why do you believe churches are actively promoting God's word? (And how is all of God's word condensed to this issue?)
3) When the same exit polls cited here showed Kerry winning in Ohio, they were discounted (despite no evidence of them ever being wrong before); why are they credible now?
4) If abortion is made illegal, what punishment should the woman get? What should be the punishment for the man who impregnated her? Would he need to prove that he fought to prevent her from getting an abortion to avoid being accused of conspiracy or accessory? If he killed her to stop her from getting an abortion, would it be justifiable homicide? Or is she solely responsible for the life of the child? What is the fair distribution of responsibility among her, the man (since he helped create the life), the community (since it isn't providing the proper support to her)?
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Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/20/07 01:38:03 PM |
Age 51, NC |
There is no way I would vote for either Rudy or Hillary. I for one have had it with voting for the lesser of the two evils! If a moral, God-fearing candidate is not nominated by either party, I will vote third party, or write in my own choice. We as a nation have to understand that the lesser of two evils is still evil! Yes, I know God is in control of who wins, but I think our attitudes and actions determine whether He gives us the one we deserve, or the one who is best for the nation. I pray it will be the latter!
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Re: Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/18/07 08:37:37 PM |
Age 24, KS |
You say, and I quote: "You are the individual that Roger Oakland's book "Faith Undone" addresses." I think it is pretty telling when someone your age automatically assumes that someone my age must be a part of the emerging church movement.
It tells me that you have no hope for the upcoming generation of believers. It tells me that you think your generation is a superior one. It tells me that you believe your generation was never the "upcoming generation."
I believe that the issue to be concerned about, first and foremost, is not the emerging church. Rather, the issue to be concerned about is how people your age look down upon the upcoming generation and say, if not with words than with actions and condemning attitudes, "The church is doomed if left up to this generation."
It's a shame that there are people that share your opinion. I believe this is why people my age are turning away from the church. Not because they are false converts, but because people such as yourself don't give them a chance within the church.
I believe that our generation is the future of the church. And eventually those, such as yourself, condemning us will not be around to do so. May you, while you have the chance, encourage this upcoming generation who WILL BE The Church.
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Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/15/07 01:57:54 AM |
Age 52, CA |
Oh by the way: That's 78 not 77 Hasta la vista!
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Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/15/07 01:55:31 AM |
Age 52, CA |
A good writer doesn't need to point out that he's attempting to use the genre of sarcasm. See my answer to your post attacking the 77 year old. You are the individual that Roger Oakland's book "Faith Undone" addresses. I'll continue to pray that my Lord doesn't judge the USA as he should while I continue my work serving the poor. Have a nice day.
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Re: Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/15/07 01:46:44 AM |
Age 52, CA |
My, my, aren't you a condescending little puppy! Bet ya chant and walk labyrinths too, do ya?
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Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/14/07 07:56:31 PM |
Age 61, MO |
I agree with this comment. Any Christian who supports the United States Military aggression in Afghanistan and Iraq are supporting the same genocidal effort of those who support abortion. George Cancilla
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Re: Pro-Choicers? Time for a change of terminology
| Posted On: 11/14/07 02:26:12 PM |
Age 28, TX |
Thank you! Unfortunately, so many laws have been passed to prevent what you propose. Granted, we could do it anyway, though...--Mrs. Pilgrim
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Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/14/07 02:24:47 PM |
Age 28, TX |
Interesting perspectives. So, it's your contention that Jesus supported gunpoint robbery as a means of charity? Or did He actually advocate giving of one's OWN money to the poor? Be charitable in your way on your dime, and I'll do it in and on mine. As to your proposition that "women will get abortions anyway, so it may as well stay legal"--well, kids will knock over convenience stores and boost cars anyway, so why not make THAT legal, too? Murder is murder, wrong is wrong, and its frequency should not be a reason to legalize it. Really, you don't seem to understand that you are playing with OTHER people's rights here. Jesus didn't give you that power. He didn't give ANYONE that power.--Mrs. Pilgrim
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Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/14/07 02:17:22 PM |
Age 28, TX |
Neighbor, is your point that we should stop worrying about the MOST IMPORTANT RIGHT (aka the right to exist), or is it that we need to be socialists? I think you're using flawed reasoning here. Just because one focuses heavily on Fourth Amendment rights (due process of law), that doesn't mean that most of us don't also give to charity for the homeless and sick and poor. You're a victim of the thing called "false dichotomy"--a setting up of two things as mutually exclusive which are not.--Mrs. Pilgrim
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Re: Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/14/07 02:11:54 PM |
Age 28, TX |
Commentor before, allow me: "You're starting to sound like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. I am sure you, too, would blame 9/11 on the homosexuals and abortionists, wouldn't you?" Don't you think that's a bit excessive? Perhaps you think that the bad kings of Israel or the invading armies of enemy nations weren't a punishment--even though they were so promised by Samuel? "The election of Hilary or Rudy would be God's punishment on the U.S.?!?!?! Are you serious?" What, you think he's kidding? "What kind of God do you serve? A God who is impotent to do anything but punish people?" You think He doesn't? Or that His choosing to do so excludes any other ability on His part? Logic check. "Do you not think that God has in mind who will be president of this country?" Do you not think that God might have a president in mind to drive us back to Him in repentance? "Do you not think that God can work through any person?" Sure; God worked through Hitler in getting the Jews back to Israel. But that didn't make Hitler a good candidate for Fuhrer. "Answer me this: what kind of God do you serve?" Um, a just one? A holy one? One Who has been known to let bad things happen to remind His erring children just how important obedience is? In short, neighbor, have you ever READ the Old Testament at all?--Mrs. Pilgrim
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Re: Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/14/07 09:40:21 AM |
Age 24, KS |
Whoa, Whoa, Whoa! Easy there, fella. You're starting to sound like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. I am sure you, too, would blame 9/11 on the homosexuals and abortionists, wouldn't you?
The election of Hilary or Rudy would be God's punishment on the U.S.?!?!?! Are you serious?
What kind of God do you serve? A God who is impotent to do anything but punish people? Do you not think that God has in mind who will be president of this country? Do you not think that God can work through any person?
Answer me this: what kind of God do you serve?
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Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/13/07 11:34:34 AM |
Age 78, AZ |
If either of these people is elected president, it will be proof that God has finally decided to punish the U. S. for its ungodly behavior. It's been a long time coming.
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Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/13/07 09:49:51 AM |
Age 24, KS |
I love (and by love, I mean hate. Please note the sarcasm) that there is a whole sect of Christianity that is concerned with only one issue, two at the most: abortion and homosexuality. That's it. This whole article is directed at one issue. One. Abortion. Is it an important issue? Absolutely. Is the only issue? Absolutely NOT.
You people are so anti-abortion (as am I), and yet seem to neglect the sanctity of life beyond this one issue. Let's have a few articles about the poor, the homeless, the refugee, the malnourished, etc. and our response to that--our RESPONSIBILITY as CHRISTIANS to do something more than lament abortion.
I am sure that most of the people that visit this site will continue to vote on their two pet issues (abortion and homosexulaity) and neglect the rest. I just thought I would draw some attention to the discrepancy in your logic and the narrowness of your theology.
By all means, long for the idyllic age of the 1950's when everything was so much better (please note the sarcasm again). Or maybe you could/should expand your concern to other issues that matter as well.
Just think about it. Your preachers often talk about the "whole counsel of God" and yet all we hear from you comes from one of your two soapboxes. You know it's true.
Maybe try preaching/teaching/writing the WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD.
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Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/13/07 08:29:24 AM |
Age 60, KS |
While I'm fervently anti-abortion I wish the issue wouldn't come up in presidential elections. For instance, why is the sanctity of life important only in the womb?
Isn't it also important outside it? The current administration went to war for no good reason and has killed thousands of innocent women and children through bombing and collateral damage. Why is this ok but abortion is wrong.
While abortion is wrong morally, do we need government to outlaw it when we know full well that they will continue anyway? I know of a woman (intelligent, well educated, etc) who had one whe it was still illegal. I don't know who performed it but I'm sure it was some kind of back room doc who did it for the money.
If we go to the trouble of placing people into positions of making it illegal again, it really won't change much for many women who insist on getting one. There will be plenty of docs and others who will continue to perform them. However, the very people we place in positions of power to overcome this problem may well be the kind of people who affect us adversely in other more ways. Like civil liberties and hateful cutbacks on programs for the poor and underprivilaged.
Those of us who are fervently anti-abortion need to suggest plans to educate women on alternatives to abortion. We need to support programs for adoption of unwanted children. We must educate them on the moral and spiritual consequences of their actions. To be involved in an abortion should brand you as the jerk and selfish person you have shown society you are.
This should stem the tide more than making it more difficult for a poor woman to have one legally while the rich ones continue to do so unabated.
I'm sick of electing people who claim to be Godly and don't demonstrate the spirit of Jesus in how they govern. The so called religious right is not serving God's purpose by insuring the election of uncaring govt. officials who use abortion as a hot button issue to gain support of often hypocritical supporters.
Lets get abortion out of politics and put it where it belongs. How many good church goers are attending church on Sunday and getting an abortion on Tuesday? It's up to families and churches to teach us the morals we need to be spiritually whole. Government is not good at it and shouldn't legislate it.
Govt. needs to spend time on issues that only it can solve....while I know that Rudy and Hillary are pro-choice, I honestly don't think either of them is pro-abortion. One of them is pro-life after the womb which is important as well. Lets see....making sure everyone has health care!!!! I think Jesus would like this idea. Lets elect someone who really cares about people...all people!
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Pro-Choicers? Time for a change of terminology
| Posted On: 11/13/07 07:05:00 AM |
Age 37, IRELAND |
I am saddened for you in the USA when this is the "choice" you are presented with - no choice at all really.
Aside from this interesting article, I would like to propose that we make the effort to think up a new, descriptive name for incorrectly named "pro-choicers" as they do, in fact want to remove the choice of the child in this world.
I really struggle with the apathy and even acceptance of abortion (murder) by Americans, especially so-called Christians.
If the huge proportion of Americans who claim the name of Christ just maintained prayer vigils outside these killing places and would preach the Word as commanded by our Lord we would see a reversal in this slaughter of the innocents.
American attitude is affecting the entire world on this issue.
Here in Ireland they have had 5 referendum to allow abortion in the state and have been narrowly defeated each time.
The death pushers in power now say the time is ripe for another as public opinion has been changed by the media (mostly American and British) and how this is portrayed as acceptable or even sad for the poor mothers (complicit in the murder of their innocent infants).
So don't just use your vote wisely, use your Bible wisely and preach the Word, preach righteousness, sin and judgement before grace.
There is appointed a day in which God will judge every person, all men will be found guilty but those whose names are in the Lambs book of life will be pardoned.
The very souls of those involved in this henious carnage and those not taking an active stand are at stake, which is an even more urgent issue than the deaths of these innocents.
Proverbs 24:11-12 NASB
Deliver those who are being taken away to death, And those who are staggering to slaughter, Oh hold them back.
If you say, "See, we did not know this,"
Does He not consider it who weighs the hearts?
And does He not know it who keeps your soul?
And will He not render to man according to his work?
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Re: Showdown of the Godless Pro-Choicers? Hillary vs. Rudy
| Posted On: 11/13/07 02:31:12 AM |
Age 47, LA |
I appreciate the article showing the coorelation between faith and how people view abortion and vote. It is discouraging however to read that Hillary would win the south with those who go to church once a week. That seems to indicate that church goers are not necessarily in touch with the truth of God being the author of all life. It is disheartning. Of course when leaders of the church endorse pro-abortion candidates I guess we can expect a alarge part of the populace to follow suit.
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