supporter?
| Posted On: 12/24/07 03:08:29 PM |
Age 59, VA |
If you are a supporter or proponent of House Church, you could have fooled me. When you make the statements that "most house church" members tend to demonstrate spiritual arrogance and pride to a greater degree than they demonstrate humbleness. I believe spiritual pride is the most dangerous of the three roots of sin (fleshly desires, materialism, and pride) because the spiritually proud person is not aware of their condition -- and quite often becomes aware when they've fallen into sin (...a great fall always follows pride)." you are saying MOST are in sin and desception! As a "proponent" of House Churches, after making a statement like that, I wonder what it is that you like about them? I believe that as the ecomony suffers and perhaps the Church's tax exempt status is taken away, we will see more and more of the Home Churches cropping up. I believe the Lord is reestablishing them for various reasons. We shall see. I believe there are many, many, many people sitting in churches that could be holding home bible studies and having Home Church, doing the work of the ministry, fulfilling the purposes and labor of love of the the five fold ministry gifts in maturing the Saints. Perhaps the Lord is shaking things. Perhaps it is a catch 22 for Pastors to really release their members to go out and do the work of the ministry in that they desire to see it happen but are hesitant to release the people and lose their tithes. Perhaps God is getting His way after all. What if there were more House Churches? What if we really did start reaching our neighborhoods by inviting them to a our homes for church? When will we get passed thinking God can only work one way? Why is it ok for China but not America. Are we so complacent that we are afraid to consider that we might live to see such religious persecution in this country and that we would be forced to meet in homes? Are we so naive to think that God would not prepare us by putting the model in place for such a time as that? There are many good reasons for Home Churches no matter what obstacles they face!
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Re: Should I Say More About Meeting in Homes?
| Posted On: 11/16/07 04:04:07 PM |
Age 40, CA |
I am a proponent for House Churches and have enjoyed the benefits. However, I've noticed that most of the members possess good biblical knowledge, are bold in the manner in which they speak about the condition of the church in the present era, are somewhat rebellious toward church traditions and frown at the mere thought of liturgy. I've noticed that some members also stretch the idea of "liberty" and "freedom" to such an extent that they foolishly underestimate Satan's dynamic ability to influence the mind and numb our spiritual ability to sense danger as we navigate through the battle field from which, for now, we cannot escape.
And lastly, some also think that by meeting in homes, they are safe from the problems found in traditional churches. Satan knows very well how to attack any congregation -- especially ones that congregate in a "private" home. Again, I'm a proponent of House Churches -- my point is that we should continue to maintain a high degree of spiritual awareness, perhaps we should even increase it, as we endeavor to improve the manner in which we meet as a congregation.
However, keeping an open mind and a watchful attitude may prompt us to ask: How can we expect our church members to be any different than most members of a traditional church? So long as there is a devil and there are people, we will experience problems in the "Church." Furthermore, the same problems found in a traditional church will soon appear in house churches -- minus the overhead costs. And do you not think that the traditional churches will start to improve conditions to make their services more personable?
To close this thought, and to express a possible weak link in the House Church chain, I find that most house church members tend to demonstrate spiritual arrogance and pride to a greater degree than they demonstrate humbleness. I believe spiritual pride is the most dangerous of the three roots of sin (fleshly desires, materialism, and pride) because the spiritually proud person is not aware of their condition -- and quite often becomes aware when they've fallen into sin (...a great fall always follows pride). Church Houses is a great idea, but we do not live in the Apostalic age where all the members of the church gave everthing they had and everything was common property, and the Spirit killed people who lied about how much they gave, etc. We must be careful and watchful as we enter into this improved method of gathering.
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Re: Re: Should I Say More About Meeting in Homes?
| Posted On: 11/14/07 02:12:35 PM |
Age 53, CANADA |
What scriptures about accountability to whom? The scriptures that I read speak about our accountability to God only.
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Re: Re: Should I Say More About Meeting in Homes?
| Posted On: 11/14/07 05:28:58 AM |
Age 64, OH |
Amen brother; the scripture says the natural is a sign of the spiritual. We all know that we do not get stronger muscles by watching or listening to someone talk about exercise. We get stronger by DOING not watching. The same is true of the spiritual; we get stronger by doing. Churches DO NOT get more mature by watching some preacher preach. They get stronger by doing; which means they must participate. The good school teachers know this principle. They tell and then show the student and then have the student DO. It is by doing that the real learning takes place. The telling and showing is just to get to the students DOING. The same is true in any church. This is why there are so many churches with members who have stunted growth. The pastors are stunted by their thinking they are the ones who are to control everything and the other members are stunted by the fact that they never exercise their faith. The water became wine when it was POURED OUT. Filling the jars with the water did not result in the miracle; but it was the pouring out that resulted in the water turning into wine. Lou
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Re: Should I Say More About Meeting in Homes?
| Posted On: 11/13/07 06:06:59 PM |
Age 53, CANADA |
Thanks for an interesting article. It would seem to me that the model you have is not very different to "traditional church models" just smaller in size. It does encourage me to see that people in your house churches are relating outside the set "meetings" although again it seems this is mainly to leaders and not to members in general unless I have read it wrong.
My major concern with your article relates to the leadership structure you have as it seems to be controlling, paternalistic and much like the "traditional church models".
Allowing people to question and share in a small group does not necessarily change the "lording" attitude many Christian leaders have. Jesus advocated a different type of leadership "You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many." (Mark 10v42-45)
I guard against anyone who finds their identity in the body based on a role of leadership or a title of ministry. As clearly as Jesus told us anything, he told his followers not to depend on such things, for it is based on a false view of our God’s family. "But do not be called Rabbi; for One is your Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ." (Matthew 23v8&10)Also I Peter 5v1-3 tells those called as elders to lead like Jesus did, not by compulsion, not for money, nor to lord over the flock, but simply by being an example of Christ’s life to others.
I think this is a very important issue that all house churches will need to face.
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Re: Should I Say More About Meeting in Homes?
| Posted On: 11/13/07 02:47:27 PM |
Age 61, MO |
You have certainly said a mouthful, most important of which I consider to be how the Scriptures which deal with hospitality and accountability can be more properly fulfilled with smaller groups. Thank you. George Cancilla
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Re: Should I Say More About Meeting in Homes?
| Posted On: 11/13/07 12:13:37 PM |
Age 35, GA |
This sounds very biblical to me. With all the frustrations I have encountered with the traditional churches, this sounds much better. Many times the people (who is the church) get overlooked because we are too busy worrying about the programs being run smoothly, the powerpoints being good and accurate, do we go with motion backgrounds or still pictures, the music must be presented professionally... the list goes on and on!
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Re: Should I Say More About Meeting in Homes?
| Posted On: 11/13/07 10:08:42 AM |
Age 64, OH |
Amen Jim; we have experienced many of the same things that you have and seen many of the same advantages. One of the main advantages that I see in the home church or small group is shown in the first miracle that Jesus preformed. When Jesus turned the water into wine He is showing a principle that is necessary for individual growth. The stone jars are symbols of the people for we are clay jars as Paul says in Cor. The water is the symbol of the water of the word. The wine is the symbol of our fruit which is what God is looking for. God looks on the vine to find grapes for Him to make wine with. Notice the wine is the crushed fruit of the branches or our crushed fruit. The water was poured into the jars but their was still no wine. The water became wine WHEN IT WAS POURED OUT. I find that our best meetings are when many share. Sometimes I worry that the sharing of some may not be from the Holy Spirit. But the end result is that life seems to come forth as a miracle. These people need to pour out their water and we see it turn to wine right before our eyes sometimes. Sometimes the smallest comment made by someone is of such importance and sets the tone for the whole meeting. Everyone participates and all seem to be excited about attending. Not everyone participates in every meeting of course but everyone participates over the course of time. This has everyone into the scriptures because of the interest it develops. They pour the water into their jar during the week and when we come together they pour it out and it becomes wine right before our eyes. Lou
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