A hole in the research
| Posted On: 04/13/08 10:17:31 AM |
Age 37, NC |
The Barna Research, at least as Sean is using it, concerns the perceptions of 'outsiders'. The BIG question is are the 'outsiders' correct? Most of the perceptions are identical to what the liberal media protray Christians to be. So, the gapping whole is this: are the Un-Christians views correct? If not, then the response is to correct their thinking, not have some huge overhaul of Christianity. If they are correct, then Christians need to repent. I, for one, think the perceptions are overgeneralizations and that many Chrstians are being a guilt trip they don't deserve.
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Gapping Whole in Statistic Analysis
| Posted On: 04/13/08 10:15:02 AM |
Age 37, NC |
The Barna Research, at least as Sean is using it, concerns the perceptions of 'outsiders'. The BIG question is are the 'outsiders' correct? Most of the perceptions are identical to what the liberal media protray Christians to be. So, the gapping whole is this: are the Un-Christians views correct? If not, then the response is to correct their thinking, not have some huge overhaul of Christianity. If they are correct, then Christians need to repent. I, for one, think the perceptions are overgeneralizations and that many Chrstians are being a guilt trip they don't deserve.
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Re: Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/12/07 06:30:11 PM |
Age 54, PA |
Your response is very insightful and I love it except the last sentence/statement. Our country is seriously in debt and our generation is very ungrateful and wasteful as I've personnally experienced. Our richness is very superficial and I'm very concerned about the future of our next generation including our children, grandchildren,...Based on what is going on in our country, we're walking in the path of destruction. May God continue to bless America. But He is not mocked.
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Re: Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/11/07 09:52:24 PM |
Age 34, NJ |
Did you actually read the article????
Sean, thank you for a wake-up call and reminder. The pastor of the church I attend preached today about loving your neighbor as yourself. They really WILL know us by our love...or be turned off by our lack of it.
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/11/07 03:42:47 PM |
Age 28, TX |
I think there are two sides to this issue. One side is, of course, that many who claim to be "Christian" are either completely hypocritical and compromising, or using it as a mask for their hate. Either situation is, well, un-Christian. But there is also another side: the attitude of the "outsiders." Most of them have spend almost all their young lives in public schools, being pressured by authorities and peers to hold what is true and right not merely as false, but in contempt. They are plunged headlong from the age of five or younger into a world which is openly hostile to Christ, and are unequipped to defend themselves; finding that the only way to survive is to just bob your head and go along with it, it becomes habit and then philosophy. "Socialization" results not in their becoming more mature, but in conforming to their immature society. They do not outgrow the attitude that is so often heard from teens: "If you disagree with me or disapprove of what I do, it's motivated by HATE!" (How many parents HAVEN'T heard that one from their kids?) Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do against immaturity, self-righteousness, or self-imposed ignorance, in my experience. So, yes, there may be some valid points that we need to be careful not to throw down stumbling-blocks for others...but we also have to keep in mind that some people are just determined not to listen, for completely illogical reasons. Fortunately, God sorts that out.--Mrs. Pilgrim
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/10/07 09:05:16 AM |
Age 47, MO |
Sean: I wrote an article that addresses this issue and anyone can request it at jchristco@aol.com The problem as I see it is love, or an improper definition of love. Christians are taught in their churches from infancy that Jesus loves them. This isn't true in the way we defined it. The fact is that we are clay and Jesus loves himself and wishes to make us a vessel for His spirit. Basically we are to become little Christ-iuns. When we do this, we are free to love Christ with His love and share His love with others. Instead, with an improper interpretation of love, we spend it on ourselves becoming self absorbed blessing sponges. So yes, the world is right- most Christians they see on TV and in the world are self absorbed, hypoctitical, judgemental, and not Christ followers. Indeed we are just like the world but with a religious verneer. John
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Re: Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/09/07 01:03:04 PM |
Age 61, IL |
While there is some value in knowing how others perceive us, as Christians, we shouldn't be defined by those outside the faith. Their goal is not to help us but to marginalize us.
Francis Schaffer's approach of compassion plus truth in all sectors of life, however, puts forth an attractive and effective model for confronting those outside faith in Christ as the means of eternal life.
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 09:54:41 PM |
Age 30, IA |
1. What difference does "hypocricy" have on Scripture? Does accepting Christ mean we are perfect from there on? 2. So, you suggest we stop sharing the Gospal? Just, "carry on, wayward son?" 3. IE, pro-family. Since you've singled out homosexuality: if I say "I won't celebrate homosexuality;" you hear, "I hate fags, I'll kill fags." True, churches have abandoned Biblical principles in this area and don't talk positively about family issues, but I can't speak for church leaders and no one asked me anything. 4. Define "sheltered." Yes, I'd rather read the Bible than watch primetime TV; yes I believe in a 6-day Creation as God has stated and question evolution, which depends on beliefs in vestigial organs and embryonic recapitulation. But now you are calling me names. 5. Define "political." You whine about us being "sheltered," and whine again when we become involved in society? 6. Sean, why don't you listen to your dad's lecture called, "Judge Not Lest You Be Judged."
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 03:13:45 PM |
Age 59, WV |
http://www.newswithviews.com/Daubenmire/dave91.htm
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 02:54:24 PM |
Age 46, ME |
There is some truth to non-christians thoughts and also mistaken theories. I'd like to take them 1 at a time.
Hypocracy: While this isn't unfounded I'd ask this question. Aren't we all? Aren't the people in Barna's article? I've been told by non-believers that Christians don't care about anyone. I then ask them when THEY last went on a mission trip or helped someone themselves. Normally I don't get a response.
2. Too focused on getting converts? Here's some serious scripture.
Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.
As Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron ask on their show, how long are we to wait before you tell them the story of Christ? What happens if they die tonight? Why are you asking them about Christ? To be a believer/convert.
3. Anti-homosexual? I wouldn't say anti-homosexual. One might be able to say we're LESS anti-divorce, anti-murder, anti-out of wedlock child birth, and other sins, but I think those sins should be elevated to anti-homosexual and not dumb down anti-homosexual to the others. We certainly don't have much room to talk when speaking of divorce within Christian marriages and other things.
4. Sheltered? Old fashioned, boring? Behind the times and not in touch with reality? Old Fashioned... Does that mean I should embrace euthansia? Boring? Does that mean that I'm supposed to be in tune with the newest show featuring 50 taking the Lords name in vain? Behind the times? Should I happily listen to the in times music of today which talks about gunning down people for no reason, or cutting oneself? Not in touch with reality? The reality is this. These people don't know Christ. The reality is that this world is going to you know where in a hand basket? The reality is that Christians just in the US are out helping others each day pick up after fires, help rebuild the Gulf Coast, establishing food shelters, working at the local Salvation Army, etc..etc..etc...
5. Too political? Maybe, maybe not. Seems our Founding Fathers were pretty political and most were members of Christian congregations. I think that Christians should be involved in politics to some degree and any degree involved would be by default too political once you take a stand for an issue that is divisive like homosexuality, abortion, welfare for all, giving full tuition to illegal immigrants, and lots of other issues.
6. Judgemental?
Definition.
1. Involving the use or exercise of judgment.
2. Tending to make moral judgments:
3. To avoid a judgmental approach in dealing with divorced couples.
Judging means you discern. Discernment is spoken about many times in the bible. In 1 Corinthians 6:2 (KJV) the Lord says: Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Luke 12:49-59 also fits here.
Now, are there issues within Christianty? Oh yes in deed. Anyone keeping abreast of the recent going's knows.
'Ministries" run by shucksters are being audited for bilking people. Money that should go to real ministry work like inner city ministries, rural ministries, etc.. This is a valid issue.
Busy with building additions isn't bad. It's when you go overboard. However, we ARE sinners and DO come short of God's glory. Doesn't excuse it, but we should be more trustworthy with the money God has bestowed on us.
Are we too concerned with keeping up with the Jones'? Have to have the latest clothes? Do we own too many cars? Do we have too much debt? Is there less holiness? Have we effectively shut ourselves out of helping others because we don't have time, money and resources because we're too in hawk?
Probably, and in those instances we are to blame. Can we fix that? How do you get out of that web? That's the problem we have. The US is too rich, not been persecuted like other Christians and we're too fat, happy and dumb.
LR
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Re: Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 02:33:20 PM |
Age 61, MO |
There is a difference between not being loved because you are a true disciple of Christ, and not being loved because you are a homosexual basher. I did not take this article to be a "soft sell" of the Gospel, but rather a statistical analysis of what happens when there is an aberration of the presentation of that Gospel: people turn away. "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates (unless you don't stand the test)?" (2 Corinthians 13:5). George Cancilla
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 02:10:23 PM |
Age 54, OK |
The professing evangelical church is a mess...splintered, lacking discernment and compromising the authority of Scripture. We need to clean up our act. And believers were exhorted to let their genuine good works so shine before men that they would glorify God.
But we should also think carefully about what we want or expect the outsiders to think of the true Church. Do we really expect to attract the lost, who are all enemies of the Creator and none seek after God?
The Word says those who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. They are enemies of the cross. The apostles and disciples were persecuted and some martyred. Should we be happy that Billy Graham was welcomed around the globe, or does it indicate that something may be amiss?
As Michael Horton pointed out some time ago in, Beyond Culture Wars, there is too much confusion about what is Christian and what is American.
We don't want to offend by being obnoxious; we want, as much as possible, to live peaceably with all men, but we need to pursue holy living and humble repentance when we fall.
Show the world something that is truly different.
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 10:49:43 AM |
Age 25, WA |
All though I appreciate your article, and agree that many times our testimony is undermined by our actions, two things come to mind.
First, you stated that many non-christians have had a period of "searching" but just couldn't get past the barriers. The Bible says that none seek after God, and none come to God unless He calls them. We do not pull them in, God does. Sometimes in spight of what his children are acting like.
Secondly, many people have no idea the difference between a Catholic and a Baptist, let alone a professing Christian, and a true one. Before I was saved I thought all christians were hypocritical and self-righteous simply because I thought anyone who went to any church or prayed even once was a Christian. We must be careful to act rightly, but most times it is the darkened heart of the lost that labels us. We may plant or water the seed, and seek to genuinly love our neighbor, but God will cause it to grow. God will illumine their hearts and let them see what truth lies in Christ and those that follow him.
-Aadel
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 09:53:58 AM |
Age 48, CA |
Lets go over these points shall we?
Hypocritical: When the divorce, abrotion, tenn pregnancy, drug abuse rate, and just about all the other vices that define a godles world are little if any different within the Church as it is on the outside, they have a point. Jesus made a lot of analogies to farming. One can boast of his tractor, irrigation system, and other tools but the only thing that really counts is what fruits we have on the table at harvest time.
Converts: Like the perfumed princes in the military who only care about inspection scores, too many only appear to care about numbers of converts and do little to shepheard them after conversion.
Anti Homosexual: There is no way around it. The Lord considers this an abomination right alongside divorce, adultery, and fornication. We need to embrace sexual puirity on all fronts, not just this one. We place too much emphasis on passing laws or blocking laws they want to impose. Humility here is the key. Our stand here should not be as an enforcer but as one who submits to the will of the Lord over the will of society. "We must obey God rather than men" should be the basis of our stand. The bottom line is that no matter how softly we speak or stand, this will be a hot topic and a nation whomis clearly suffering the effects of Romans 1:18-36 will only make it hotter.
Sheltered: This is actually a plus. One who obeys God's commandments reguarding sexual purity does not need to worry about abortion, STD's child support, welfare, or other social programs. Being free from sin also means freedom from dependency.
Political: I agree, too much emphasis is being placed on politics. The Gospel does not stand or fall on the passage of propper legislation. Once the godless left cries out against what we stand for, our "Political job" ofr the most part, is done.
Judgemental: Once again, while we are overly judgemental, we DO need to judge every teaching, statement, or policy in the light of Scripture. Rather than being condemnational, we nned to be hunble and once again base our stand on submission to God's will and not as "Gods enforcers".
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 09:44:44 AM |
Age 57, MN |
ONE word for that article by SEAN, is this HOGWASH.
IF the people calling themself CHRISTIANS get any softer, we wont have a CLUE who they are.
WE have so many false converts today, is why people DONT like the Christians.
THOSE who say one thing and do another.
WE cant have JIM BAKERS< and TED HAGGARDS telling us how to be Christians, they stain the name.
NOW we have PAT ROBERTSON,( lost man) telling us its ok to vote for one who thinks being gay is ok.
LETS get off this, being nicey nice garbage, SEAN.
THE TRUTH sets the LOST free, not kissing their behinds to win converts, which is what most are doing today.
NO WONDER, we have this FALSE christian most today call CARNAL, you bet they are CARNAL which means unsaved.
JESUS never told us we would be loved.
YOU want to play the come here kissy kissy game.
THERE Isnt time for that SEAN.
WHO on earth, cares HOW the unsaved see us to begin with? COME ON!
ARE we suppose to make them LOVE Us NOW?
WHERE Is that in the bible.
THIS is about their salvation, not about how they think we are suppose to approve of their sins.
I dont recall JOHN the BAPTIST saying, JESUS LOBES YOU now be saved.
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 09:31:42 AM |
Age 61, MO |
I am not a bit surprised by these statistics, and believe they are accurate. It is difficult to present the messages of the Gospel of "not storing up treasures on earth" and "not loving God and mammon" using thousands of dollars worth of Public Address equipment while standing in a multi million dollar building, without coming across as hypocritical. Many Christians have stood behind politicians that have shown themselves to be anything but Christians. "The medium is often the only message" that makes it through to those who are watching and listening. George Cancilla
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 07:41:34 AM |
Age 45, PA |
Actually what the unbelievers are commenting on is the unregenerate institutional church of America. The real church is actually very small and may not even meet in public buildings. Years of "generational" people occupy most of the church today, because the institutional machine has made salvation an inherited right though they would deny it. Because the psydo-church is filled with people worse than the unbelievers, the heathens see a corupt church and they are right. Christ is the Head, anyone else is an anti-christ!
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Re: UnChristian: What a New Generation Really Thinks about Christianity
| Posted On: 11/08/07 07:18:50 AM |
Age 18, KS |
Not only that, but what does the current generation think about God? Recently in my Eng 101 class we had to write analisis papers. In one paper, a girl compared God to Jigsaw in the movie SAW. The sad thing is... most of the class agreed with her...
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