Re: Doug is wrong, and so is Todd!
| Posted On: 11/08/07 09:14:33 AM |
Age 27, SOUTH AFRICA |
After a few weeks I've come back here to see what people's response to this whole situation is.
Let me say that I am both sad and terribly angry at the absolutely terrible way both you, Todd, and the public have managed this situation. The Bible says 'gently rebuke and encourage' and it says 'restore your brother.' All you're doing is providing entertainment. I bet no one is even going to bother to say anything about my post here, since most of you are too busy on your holier-than-thou little cloud to even address the real problem. There are those who have a form of godliness but deny it's power. Most of you here are on that road.
THE REAL PROBLEM IS NOT THAT DOUG IS A HERETIC (Plus, your definitions of heretic are completely, historically, and biblically wrong.) THE REAL ISSUE IS THE GOSPEL. TODD, YOU HAVE NOT REPRESENTED THE GOSPEL. YOU'RE AS GUILTY AS DOUG. You, Todd, are a heretic not by your words - BUT BY YOUR ACTION. Please stop this. It's not godly. And I have to say the same for a number of you here, with your totally ridiculous and ungodly comments about Doug. You're all bunch of heretics, for it is those that DO the Word that count. All of you aren't doing the word, you're just pretending.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/07/07 01:00:42 PM |
Age 28, TX |
I disagree that being a heretic is damning. Ones beliefs send you neither to Heaven or to Hell. I do believe that you can label a heretic, though, by wither they go against the doctrines of the Bible or the established church. You are not DAMNING them by doing so,only God can do that.
Now, according to many churches I AM a heretic, so where you have to be careful, as is pointed out, is to not label someone a heretic based on secondary issues. Even so, I'm probably still considered a heretic by most. :)
Sarah in TX (sovereign grace credo baptist continualist quiverfull homeschooling headcovering wife to a soon to be pastor.)
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/06/07 02:01:57 PM |
Age 50, MN |
The verdict is in - 94 responses here say he's unequivocally a heretic. (9 disagreed and 13 had issues but didn't directly call him a heretic - which still makes it a clear 81% heretic landslide vote.) So Todd - it's back to you - should we stone him, burn him at the stake or just mock him on your radio show?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/05/07 01:22:20 PM |
Age 50, MN |
Really, you wonder when he was called a heretic? When wasn't he is a better question. He was constantly being accused of being a heretic and circumventing the Jewish laws, all the way from washing his hands, gathering food on the sabbath to the big ones of claiming to be God and forgiving sins and a multitude of accusations in between. The examples are really too numerous to cite - very interesting you would ask that question.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/04/07 12:47:52 PM |
Age 50, OH |
Heresy. Because DP suggests heaven is not a place and that judgment is God re-making the world.
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Re: Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/04/07 07:56:27 AM |
Age 50, MN |
There is a monumental difference between confronting in truth and love and trying to humiliate, ridicule and make cheap jokes of someone for laugh - nobody said he should coddle him - so why didn't you address the point I made? Because you'd rather support this crap than call it what it is? SIN. If a liberal pulled this on a conservative this site would never hear the end of it.
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Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/02/07 03:43:48 PM |
Age 55, NE |
Yes, if we don't coddle heretics we aren't playing "fair" by the world's standards. If Jesus, or Paul, were here He would more than likely call him a viper or wolf.
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Re: Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/02/07 03:41:26 PM |
Age 55, NE |
What exactly is your question and when exactly was Jesus called a heretic?
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Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/01/07 02:14:18 PM |
Age 50, MN |
So nobody wants to tackle my question here? This article gets hundreds of responses screaming "HERETIC" while most articles on this site only get a couple of responses. But we Christians aren't hate-mongers like the world says we are, are we? Wait a minute, get out of the way, give me that stone, better yet anybody got a stake and a few matches?
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 11/01/07 10:01:34 AM |
Age 50, MN |
I listened to Todd Friel again on Oct. 31. He now has 'commercials' mocking and making fun of Doug Pagitt, all for a laugh. Incredibly demeaning, misrepresenting (okay exaggerating) Pagitt's position to get smirks and chuckles from his listeners (90% christian I would presume.)// Where is the outcry about this? Why is it okay to do this? Will anybody have the nerve to ask Todd these questions?// Talk about turning serious issues into 'entertainment' and 'ear candy' - is this what we're supposed to be about? //Yeah let's make fun of people, laugh at them, and then continue to pat ourselves on the back for our 'superior' theological positions. //I have to say it sickens me - and I wonder why it doesn't sicken anyone else.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/31/07 10:26:46 PM |
Age 23, MO |
First and foremost, as someone has said before, Jesus was often called a heretic. His response was that to condemn the work of the Spirit of God as the work of the devil was the ultimate blasphemy. Maybe we shouldn't be so quick to determine what an infinite and almighty God's modus operandi. I'm not going to even attempt to comment either way regarding the issues of the dialogue, but it seems to me that we are quick to label Pagitt with harsh names while accusing him of the same things. I fail to see how we are promoting a gospel of love (particularly for our enemies) by bashing them and determining whether or not they have salvation according to our own understandings. Who is the God of salvation? Is it God or our determinations of who we think is right?
As for the history of orthodox tradition, I think its important to note that it didn't begin with Calvin, Luther or Spurgeon. Every leader of the earliest church was condemned as a heretic and persecuted for believing in an extreme and radical love.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/31/07 08:15:45 PM |
Age 56, CO |
Not only is this man a heretic but I have never heard such inane babbling in my life! I'm so appalled I have nothing more to say. Thank you for asking for feedback.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/30/07 10:49:21 PM |
Age 27, SC |
Heretic.
By definition. I know that true definitions are not popular these days, but thank God truth is not determined by popularity.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/30/07 03:03:30 PM |
Age 62, FL |
Doug is a master of arrogant blather in much the same manner used by the former Yassir Arafat or the peculiar Ahmadinijad! They can never answer a question directly- they are too busy smirking and mocking. What a demonic little imp he is! Of course he is heretic- he is also trying to throw our words like Platonic and dualism thinking most of us are such dolts that would would not see what he was doing..or know what that was all about. Anyone who says Jesus died for nought (if all can be saved without him and there is no heaven or hell,) need to find a quiet place, contemplate their navels and be the good little universalists that they are!
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/29/07 09:50:37 PM |
Age 41, FL |
Thanks Todd, once again, for a reality check.
There are so many who claim the title of pastor, minister, or reverend, just to make a living, without knowing the Master.
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Re: Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/29/07 10:47:26 AM |
Age 50, OK |
You have highlighted my very concern about this article/interview. While DP's comments are clearly NOT in keeping with God's Word, his comments are not indicative of the entire 'emergent' church. I am a fundamental, evangelical minister ordained in a holiness denomination. I am also in the process of planting a church that would to be catagorized most closely with the emerging church in keeping with it's approach to ministry. Illustration: In the 1968 Olympics, Dick Fosbury earned the gold medal in the high jump. His approach and methodology was unique at best. However, he did not lower the standard. In fact he raised the bar and set a new olympic record. What was so non-traditional is now the universal approach to the event. In the church, it is possible to alter the approach without lowering the standard. I beg of you; do not paint the emerging movement with such broad strokes as to destroy solidly foundationed ministries that are acting in obedience to reach a viturally untouched demographoic with Biblical discipliship. Perhaps it do some of you well to go back and read Luke 5:29-32.
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/29/07 10:25:24 AM |
Age 71, CANADA |
Pagitt's message is heresy. J. Gresham Machen who wrote the very controversial book "Liberalism or Christianty?" would likely take a similar approach to this subject; "The Emergent Church or Christianity?" because in many ways the two are very similar. They both claim "enlightenment" and they both engage in similar distortions, perversions, and definately preach "another" gospel. It seems "The Emergent Church" is an attempt to gain intelectual respectibility while still having the appearance of evangelical orthodoxy. Another parallel to this movement may be a former US President's attempts at founding a new "more tolerant" Baptist Denomination. It is the same slippery slope that the venerable Bishop J.C. Ryle and Charles Haddon Spurgeon warned their generations of at the turn of the 20th century. It is clearly a good example of what it means to be able to contend for the faith and to know what it is you believe and why, in the tradition of the Apostles, early Church Fathers and the Reformers and most importantly; from the pens and lips of the inspired writers of Holy Writ. Sola Scriptura!
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/29/07 10:24:04 AM |
Age 71, CANADA |
Pagitt's message is heresy. J. Gresham Machen who wrote the very controversial book "Liberalism or Christianty?" would likely take a similar approach to this subject; "The Emergent Church or Christianity?" because in many ways the two are very similar. They both claim "enlightenment" and they both engage in similar distortions, perversions, and definately preach "another" gospel. It seems "The Emergent Church" is an attempt to gain intelectual respectibility while still having the appearance of evangelical orthodoxy. Another parallel to this movement may be a former US President's attempts at founding a new "more tolerant" Baptist Denomination. It is the same slippery slope that the venerable Bishop J.C. Ryle and Charles Haddon Spurgeon warned their generations of at the turn of the 20th century. It is clearly a good example of what it means to be able to contend for the faith and to know what it is you believe and why, in the tradition of the Apostles, early Church Fathers and the Reformers and most importantly; from the pens and lips of the inspired writers of Holy Writ. Sola Scriptura!
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/29/07 10:23:11 AM |
Age 71, CANADA |
Pagitt's message is heresy. J. Gresham Machen who wrote the very controversial book "Liberalism or Christianty?" would likely take a similar approach to this subject; "The Emergent Church or Christianity?" because in many ways the two are very similar. They both claim "enlightenment" and they both engage in similar distortions, perversions, and definately preach "another" gospel. It seems "The Emergent Church" is an attempt to gain intelectual respectibility while still having the appearance of evangelical orthodoxy. Another parallel to this movement may be a former US President's attempts at founding a new "more tolerant" Baptist Denomination. It is the same slippery slope that the venerable Bishop J.C. Ryle and Charles Haddon Spurgeon warned their generations of at the turn of the 20th century. It is clearly a good example of what it means to be able to contend for the faith and to know what it is you believe and why, in the tradition of the Apostles, early Church Fathers and the Reformers and most importantly; from the pens and lips of the inspired writers of Holy Writ. Sola Scriptura!
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Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
| Posted On: 10/29/07 10:16:53 AM |
Age 71, CANADA |
Pagitt's message is heresey. J. Gresham Machen who wrote the very controversial book "Liberalism or Christianty?" would likely take a similar approach to this subject; "The Emergent Church or Christianity?" because in many ways the two are very similar. They both claim "enlightenment" and they both engage in similar distortions, perversions, and definately preach "another" gospel. It seems "The Emergent Church" is an attempt to gain intelectual respectibility while still having the appearance of evangelical orthodoxy. Another parallel to this movement may be Carter's and Clinton's attempts at founding a new "more tolerant" Baptist Denomination. It is the same slippery slope that Bishop J.C. Ryle and Charles Haddon Spurgeon warned there generation of at the turn of the 20th century. It is clearly a good example of what it means to be able to contend for the faith and to know what it is you believe and why, in the tradition of the Apostles, early Church Fathers and the Reformers and most importantly; from the pens and lips of the inspired writers of Holy Writ. Sola Scriptura!
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