Re: Re: Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/19/07 09:24:24 AM |
Age 50, MN |
I probably should re-read this about every day.
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/19/07 01:49:16 AM |
Age 70, AZ |
The issue of the nature of truth and certainty is of critical importance in all aspects of Christian culture. To see a modern example of how weakness in this foundational concept appears to have a negative impact at a major Christian college, you may want to take a look at the comments by a retired faculty member at: cedarvillesituation.com
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY
| Posted On: 09/17/07 01:30:27 PM |
Age 37, VA |
I think part of the confusion is the issue of "What determines an emergent church?" In other words is that a phrase that is thrown out to encompass every church who uses video, modern music, and more casual dress? Or is there a very specific set of criteria from the standpoint of doctrine that sets apart the "emergent church" from other, doctrinally conservative churches which also have a more modern worship style? I've personally never seen a list of what classifies a church as "emergent". I just see a lot of names thrown out as emergent church leaders.
Regarding "The Message", I've never read the whole thing from cover to cover, so I can't say for sure what the issue is. I hear things, however. I think the statement being made, as I understand from the context of the statement, is that, because The Message is a paraphrase, it can not be depended upon to gain deep spiritual truth, and is not useful for in-depth study. It may get across an idea, but it is not a word-for-word translation, making it invalid as useful for a primary Bible. I may be off on my understanding of the statement. I am also not a student of Eugene Peterson, so I may be amiss on any greater concern that Camp has with it.
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Re: Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/17/07 09:15:48 AM |
Age 47, MO |
I don't think there is anything wrong with patriotism. The tribes of Israel marched under banners of their clans as well as the Arc of the Covenant. Our citizenship is not of this world but our purpose is to proclaim the Gospel and to defend the Truth. America was the beacon of Christianity but has fallen from that grace because of selfish pride. This individualism mindset is what caused the personal right to an abortion and also caused the eradication of the right to Christian free speech. The paradox is that individually we are weak but corporately we are strong, yet we do not wish to give of ourselves for the common good, yet, how could we when it's all about ME. Friend, patriotic feelings are a natural recognition of what was, what should be, and what our forefathers died for. If you are not patriotic then you are all about yourself today and have no appreciation of history and no forthought about tomorrow. For a Christian- to live is for Christ and to die is for gain but a Christian is to live in the real world. John
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Re: Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/15/07 02:17:38 PM |
Age 61, MO |
Here is the "Message" version of the Lord's Prayer: Matthew 6:9-13: "Our Father in heaven, Reveal who you are. Set the world right; Do what's best - As above, so below.
Keep us alive with three square meals. Keep us forgiven with you and forgiving others.
Keep us safe from ourselves and the Devil.
You're in charge!" It omits the very important words "hallowed be thy name," and "thy will be done." "As above, so below," gives no reference point to familiar words of the Greek interlinear translations "heaven" and "earth." "Three square meals" badly misses the mark of "give us this day our daily bread." In doing a Bible study, one would know that "daily bread" is the same OT manna, is Jesus Christ. You could never get that information from "three square meals." There are many other examples of verses that lose their true Scriptural meaning in the "Message." In general, the "Message" downplays the supernatural message of the Bible, God's Word, become flesh in Jesus Christ. George Cancilla
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Re: Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/15/07 09:03:05 AM |
Age 47, MO |
How to approach this without offense? There is the rub, however, the truth IS offensive. Jesus IS offensive. If these were not so then the world would love us and it is only because mistaken "Christians" seek to preach a comfortable faith, that the USofA is in the predictament that we are in today. No friend,, the true Christian Man is bold, decicive, and cunning just like scripture expouses. I wrote an article about this and forwarded it to you. If anyone else is interested, email me at jchristco@aol.com John
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Re: Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/15/07 03:26:31 AM |
Age 52, CA |
Are you really 24? I actually laughed aloud when I read your comment. Come on! 'Fess up, you're really a comedian-in-training. You have to be to claim 24 years and come off as a 12 year old. May the Lord Jesus bless you with maturity and give you grace to really see the world that is around you. Time grows short; so, redeem it! Herb
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY
| Posted On: 09/14/07 11:42:20 PM |
Age 54, CANADA |
I agree. The 10 commandments have not expired. Neither have the feasts or festivals. Study the book of Acts, and it becomes apparent that Paul kept them. Study Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, and you will see that Yeshua and his disciples kept them. Neither has the Sabbath expired or changed (sundown Friday to sundown Saturday). The church today is in a sad state.
"Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins ..." Rev 18:4
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Re: Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/14/07 10:05:49 PM |
Age 52, PA |
The attack on The Message was - I believe - harsh and uncalled for. To criticize the work of a man without taking the time to understand his heart and his purpose in the work is to move too quickly from listening to speaking. The way in which the criticism was undertaken was also in extremely poor taste. Even if you do not endorse The Message as legitimate or helpful you really are in error when you attack the work and really thus also the man behind it in the way that you did. You help the cause of Christ not one iota with such a sarcastic and derogotory illustration. It was rude. It was wrong. This is my first post ever to any article I have read here. I have read diatribe after diatribe against one thing after another, and yet very few positive statements about anything. I wonder how much more good each writer could really do if this entire website was closed down and those who contribute articles to it were to take equal time to go out and earnestly and honestly actually do something of service to others in the name of Jesus. Enough with all of you bashing each other and bashing one thing after another. Have none of you anything of more benefit to do than to waste time trashing one thing or another with you hateful albeit supposedly enlightened words. I wonder if Jesus won't be confused on judgement day when you claim to have served him. I wonder if he won't say "When was it that you said you served me?" "And How did you say you served me?"
And then, I wonder if he won't say, "depart from me, your service was unauthorized."
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/14/07 08:56:48 AM |
Age 41, ENGLAND |
I agree with what you say wholeheartedly. Modern education in state schools is now so steeped in post modernism it seems almost a sin to allow our children to be state educated. Furthermore a general lack of understanding on the part of christians about Biblical doctrines and particularly the Gospel is weakening our churches and leaving them defenceless agaist false doctrine. "Back to Basics" programmes at church are pointless if they do not include Biblically based lessons on the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, the Gospel, 6 day creation. When a church baptises and receives into fellowship someone who doesn`t even understand or acknowledge the Deity of Christ isn`t it the leadership who need to get back to basics as well as the congregation!
We have an up hill struggle ahead of us. Even so just like the old hymn says we must "Stand up, stand up for Jesus, ye soldiers of the cross. Lift high His royal banner, it must not suffer loss"
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY
| Posted On: 09/14/07 03:45:45 AM |
Age 52, CA |
Nicely done, Camp! It'll be interesting to see if you ignite a firestorm with this piece of the magnitude your "smoking" number generated.
The timing of this essay was intriguing, because it coincided with something I read in Vern Poythress' "The Returning King". On page 85 he states, "The church in Ephesus receives a mixed evaluation. It has commendable zeal for sound doctrine and the rejection of false doctrine (vv. 2, 6). But, like many a modern student focused on doctrine, it is short on love. The godly response is to see the failing and repent." Alas, I've seen myself being annoyed at the drop of a hat lately. Well, the Lord really drove that point home to me over the last few days and your article further illustrated the fact. Love... God bless ya, Camp! Herb
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 07:44:52 PM |
Age 55, NC |
Wow!! I have been waiting to read something like this for a long time! Finally, someone willing to say what needs to be said, and saying it so well! I am greatly encouraged!
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 06:33:26 PM |
Age 78, CO |
Ifirmly agree with the article. Question, is the Book pictured called The Message a version that promotes unbiblical ideas?
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 05:24:38 PM |
Age 40, TX |
AMEN and AMEN!!!!!
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 03:15:00 PM |
Age 47, MO |
Steve:
Good article but I am having a hard time squaring it with your "smoking in the boys room" article. In that article, you seem to be saying that it's about reaching the lost, the least, and the lonely- or at least- making them feel comfortable. And to that I agree to the extent that there is enough important issues where the church shouldn't major on the minors. However, it's not about us individually, its about Christ solely and the church corporately. You even said the Emergent Church believes "that church shouldn't primarily be about the glory of God, but about us." So, if the Emergent Church believes this, and you don't, then how could smoking in the boys room be about the glory of God? At what point do we pick up our cross and follow Him if we can't even not smoke for 2 hours in the presence of the saints? And no, this isn't about smoking- I could be addicted to donuts or sex and still should be expected to curb my desires in worship to God. So Steve, brother, what "Camp" are you in? Please explain yourself. John
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 03:04:07 PM |
Age 31, IL |
While you say that your use of the word "feminized" is not misogynistic, that word hardly seems the necessary or best description of something that is "softened as to its truth claims and assertions," and later in the article refers to the opposite of boldness in defending the faith. To unnecessarily use gendered terms, describing the negative qualities as "feminized," does seem misogynistic as it implies that being feminine excludes the ability to make and defend strong truth claims. Bringing gendered terms into the discussion draws attention away from the point about bold orthodoxy, which has no apparent connection to gender. Why not simply describe the issue without associating it with femininity, especially since everyone in the Church ought to be committed to the truths of our faith, women no less than men?
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 02:42:32 PM |
Age 41, VA |
I agree with this article. Now, as a member of my local church seeing that some of these things are coming true, what can I do? How do I approach it? How can I warn other Christians without offending and dividing? I see this as almost impossible because today's church members are indoctrinated in the "Six Flags Over Jesus" (Paul Washer's words) worship service strategy and squishy so-called discipleship tacticts, so-as-not-to-offend-non-believers methodologies!
Write me back at luke7.37.48@gmail.com
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 01:16:46 PM |
Age 63, VA |
Good article. It is a refreshing article to read. It seems the God's Holy Word is being dumbed down in a lot of circles these days.
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 12:09:51 PM |
Age 83, CA |
I found much of your article enlightning
but was turned off by your attack on "The
Message". Do you attack all paraphrases?
Ken
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Re: Needed: A BOLD ORTHODOXY...the biblical answer to the
| Posted On: 09/13/07 10:37:30 AM |
Age 24, KS |
I appreciate you saying that patriotism being equated with biblical Christianity is wrong. Though I am surprised that the christian worldview network published your article with that statement included. For patriotism and a conservative political agenda seems to be about 90% of their focus. Let me also say that the rest of your article is terribly uninformed and entirely ignorant, just so you don't think I agree with anything but the comment on patriotism.
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