JESUS WAS BOTH GOD AND MAN
| Posted On: 09/20/07 11:36:52 AM |
Age 63, OH |
You ask how could Jesus be both The Father and the Son. Well Jesus was both God and Man. If Jesus was both God and Man then He also had to be both the Father and the Son. One is not Possible without the other. I can not become God, but he can become a Man and did. If the Son was God and there is Only One God; certainly you agree that the Father is God. A child has no trouble seeing that it follows that Jesus is also the Father. If one is not possible then the other is not possible. How could Jesus be both the Father and the Son; the same way He was both God and Man. Isaiah 9;6 For unto us a child is born,and unto us a Son is given: and the government is upon his shoulder,and HE shall call his name, Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father,The Prince of Peace". THE Mighty God means there is One and Only One. THE Everlasting Father means there is One and Only One. There is Only One God and He became a Man and died for our sins. Lou
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Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/20/07 11:22:18 AM |
Age 63, OH |
Here is a question to ponder: If Jesus can be both God and Man; can Jesus also be both the Father and the Son. If Jesus can not be both the Father and the Son then it is impossible for Jesus to be both God and Man. Lou
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Re: Re: THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE - JESUS
| Posted On: 09/20/07 11:15:26 AM |
Age 63, OH |
When Jesus said "When you have seen Me you have seen The father"; Jesus meant exactly what he said. Isaiah 9:6 makes it clear that the child Jesus will be called "Everlasting Father" by God Himself. Lou
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Re: Re: DO NOT FOLLOW MEN
| Posted On: 09/20/07 11:02:22 AM |
Age 63, OH |
The most important attribute about God is that He exists. That is the difference between Him and false gods. for they do not exist. the 1st thing God said in the scripture is " IN THE BEGINNING GOD". God was and is and will be. he is I AM. God not only exist in all time but before time for he was in the beginning. But God also exists everywhere at once. He is the Only One that does. But God also exists and no one can stop His existence. He has an indestructible life. There are not two or three God's but One. God the father says in the OT " You will have no other Savior besides me. Jesus says I AM. The Bible says Jesus is the Almighty. There are not three Gods but One. How can Jesus be both the Father and the Son. God is I AM. We are not. What is not possible for man is possible for God. God can be I AM on the throne and still come down as a Man and be God on this earth and at the same time be everywhere in this universe and be the Holy Spirit. Have you never read many places in the Bible "there is only One God and there is NO one like Him". Read the Athanasian Creed and it says there are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit BUT THEY ARE NOT THREE BUT ONE. I know what the number three means and what the number one means. Lou
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Re: Re: DO NOT FOLLOW MEN
| Posted On: 09/20/07 11:01:08 AM |
Age 63, OH |
The most important attribute about God is that He exists. That is the difference between Him and false gods. for they do not exist. the 1st thing God said in the scripture is " IN THE BEGINNING GOD". God was and is and will be. he is I AM. God not only exist in all time but before time for he was in the beginning. But God also exists everywhere at once. He is the Only One that does. But God also exists and no one can stop His existence. He has an indestructible life. There are not two or three God's but One. God the father says in the OT " You will have no other Savior besides me. Jesus says I AM. The Bible says Jesus is the Almighty. There are not three Gods but One. How can Jesus be both the Father and the Son. God is I AM. We are not. What is not possible for man is possible for God. God can be I AM on the throne and still come down as a Man and be God on this earth and at the same time be everywhere in this universe and be the Holy Spirit. Have you never read many places in the Bible "there is only One God and there is NO one like Him". Read the Athanasian Creed and it says there are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit BUT THEY ARE NOT THREE BUT ONE.
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Re: DO NOT FOLLOW MEN
| Posted On: 09/10/07 10:32:09 AM |
Age 49, IN |
If you want to look at that passage, how can Jesus be both Father and Son? If you say that it should be father with a small f (Not God the Father in the triune Godhead), then we can also say it can be god with a small g. Have you never read John 10:34-36?
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Re: Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/07/07 01:41:54 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Yes, I do hope that Mr. Piper would be able to address your questions here.
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Re: THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE - JESUS
| Posted On: 09/07/07 01:32:41 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Not quite sure what you're getting at...I think that the article was very clear in stating that there is only "ONE GOD".
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DO NOT FOLLOW MEN
| Posted On: 09/06/07 11:24:37 PM |
Age 63, OH |
Read the scriptures, God says you will have no other Savior except for me. So the savior was God. This is in the Bible many , many places if you are open to the truth. What about Isaiah 9:6 where the Holy Spirit says the child Jesus will be the WONDERFUL COUNSELOR OR THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND THE EVERLASTING FATHER, AND MIGHTY GOD. So Jesus is God Almighty or you do not believe the Bible. Did you even read the article and check the scriptures in which it says that Jesus is God. Lou
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Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 10:14:53 AM |
Age 47, MO |
John:
I certainly wouldn't argue with anything you've written here, you did an outstanding job. However, I would add that the human nature of Jesus was always put in submission or subservient to the devine nature, just like we are called to do. We too have two natures, the nature of the flesh and the nature of the spirit and we are called to die daily to the flesh and to live by the spirit. Jesus was able to do this better than any man, having known the spirit before he knew the flesh. Our disadvantage is having known the flesh our entire lives before being born again. Friends, the flesh is unrelenting and it is easy to compromise for the sake of unity or to find a theology that subdues the inner conflict but that resulting unity will be less than Jesus's call to "be holy, for I am holy." We must choose daily to follow Him in our walk, our talk, our thoughts, our purchases, our tithe, our ???. With ALL our hearts, soul, mind, and strength. John
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Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 10:05:11 AM |
Age 63, OH |
John you are a person who I respect, and I have a real question I hope you will answer. You say "Jesus is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, Jesus is God the Son". I can not understand what then The Holy Spirit means when He says in Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God,Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. -- The Holy Spirit says the child Jesus will be called EVERLASTING FATHER. How many Everlasting Fathers are there. Is Isaiah 9:6 true. Does The Holy Spirit means what He says and the child who will be called Jesus will be the EVERLASTING FATHER. Certainly God is not trying to confuse us and could have said whatever he wanted. This is how he chose to state it. In the new testament who is the COUNSELOR. Does not Jesus call the Holy Spirit The Counselor. If Jesus is not the Holy Spirit then how does the Holy Spirit call the child who will be born and called Jesus WONDERFUL COUNSELOR. You say that the Father is not Jesus, who is our SAVIOR. How then does Jehovah God who is the FATHER say in the OT many, many times that " YOU WILL HAVE NO OTHER SAVIOR EXCEPT FOR ME." Or as to the Holy Spirit: In the OT it refers to the Holy Spirit of the Father, but in the NT it also refers to the Holy Spirit of Jesus and the Holy Spirit of Christ. How many Holy Spirits are there. There is only One Holy Spirit is there not. But your article would lead me to believe that there is a Holy Spirit who is not the Father and not Jesus, so that would make three Holy Spirits. The Athanasian creed makes this clear to me. There is one Holy Spirit who is God and proceeds from The Father or even the Son for they are all ONE. These are very sincere and serious questions I ask of you and I await your answers from a man that I respect very much. I am always trying to see the nature of My Lord and savior more clearly in my foggy mirror. Iron sharpens iron. All iron is from the same Creator and we are all brothers. Sincerely Lou
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Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 09:58:50 AM |
Age 49, IN |
If "the early church considered the Incarnation to be one of the most important truths of our faith" as Piper says, why did it take over 400 years from the birth of the Church to be declared by creed or council? Even more revealing, why didn't Paul, who had a penchant for making "hard sayings" never felt the necessity to explain the incarnation or the trinity? If fact, explanation of these two "mystifying" subjects are virtually non-existent in anywhere in Scripture.
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Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 09:58:06 AM |
Age 49, IN |
If "the early church considered the Incarnation to be one of the most important truths of our faith" as Piper says, why did it take over 400 years from the birth of the Church to be declared by creed or council? Even more revealing, why didn't Paul, who had a penchant for making "hard sayings" never felt the necessity to explain the incarnation or the trinity? If fact, explanation of these two "mystifying" subjects are virtually non-existent in anywhere in Scripture.
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THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE - JESUS
| Posted On: 09/06/07 09:31:04 AM |
Age 63, OH |
Dear brother John, What should be our standard among the writings and books. Should the standard be what came from a counsel of men no matter how respected or should our standard be the scriptures that were written by God Almighty. I think you will agree the Bible is our standard. It is oblivious from the Bible that there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit but it is a fact that the Bible NEVER calls the three Names three but always calls the three Names One. In the Athanasian creed it is very clear that the three Names or persons are ONE NOT THREE. It states very clearly that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE. The Bible agrees and when Jesus was asked what is the most important command of God He said, HEAR O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.-- The Lord Himself tells us that the most important thing about God is that He is One. Notice Jesus could have said three in one or three but Jesus said ONE. If we read very carefully the Athanasian creed that my son posted we will see that the Son is BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER. What is begotten of God except the manhood of Jesus. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. I think when the creed used the word PERSON it has caused many to error. It is not three persons as to personality or in any way that we think of a person for there is only ONE. But it is three persons as to their appearance only. There is only ONE GOD as the Bible very clearly states. The Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, but there is only ONE GOD. Lou
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Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 09:02:30 AM |
Age 20, OH |
ATHANASIAN CREED
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, IS ALL ONE, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet THEY ARE NOT THREE ETERNALS, BUT ONE ETERNAL.
As also THERE ARE NOT THREE incomprehensibles, NOR THREE UNCREATED, but ONE Uncreated, and ONE Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Spirit Almighty. And yet THEY ARE NOT THREE almighties, but ONE Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are NOT THREE gods, but ONE GOD.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord. And yet NOT THREE LORDS, but ONE Lord.
For as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge each Person by Himself to be both God and Lord, so we are also forbidden by the catholic religion to say that there are three gods or three lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son IS OF THE FATHER ALONE, not made, nor created, but BEGOTTEN. The Holy Spirit IS OF THE FATHER, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
And in the Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another, but all three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved is must think thus of the Trinity.
Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is, that we believe and confess, that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man; God, OF THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER, begotten before the worlds; and man of the substance of his mother, born in the world; perfect God and perfect man, of a rational soul and human flesh subsisting. EQUAL TO THE FATHER, as touching His godhead; and INFERIOR TO THE FATHER, as touching His manhood; who, although He is God and man, yet he is not two, but one Christ; one, not by conversion of the godhead into flesh but by taking of the manhood into God; one altogether; not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the rational soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, He sits at the right hand of the Father, God Almighty, from whence He will come to judge the quick and the dead. At His coming all men will rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved
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Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 05:57:48 AM |
Age 82, MD |
I have appreciated Dr. Piper sine I first read Desiring God. Since then I take every advantage of hearing of reading him.
I agree fully with the article. I ESPECIALLY
appreciated the part about Jesus retaining his himan nature thru eternity. That was my gut feeling but he confirmed it and gave scriptural references. Thanks for all of your fine teaching.
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Re: How can Jesus be God and man?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 02:04:22 AM |
Age 46, TX |
It is easy for me to understand the biblical truth that Jesus is God and man as I understand the fact that He is and was and is to come, and that he is the author and finisher of my faith. He is outside the human bounds of time and space so he is able to be everywhere and anywhere in and out of time. He is able to be there already waiting for me before I realize my next crisis or need. And He can be there for everyone around the world at the same time because He is not bound by time. He rolls the heavens up like a scroll and can do things that would literally blow our human minds if He were to reveal it fully to us in these vessels we call our body. Keep the faith and encourage one another with the knowledge that He is fully God and fully man so He knows our weaknesses and our strengths, and He sits at the right hand of the Father praying for us.
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