Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/15/07 12:51:55 AM |
Age 33, AL |
Christian People,
Please, please, please, stop yammering on and on about controlled demo or no controlled demo. WTC 7 wasn't hit by a PLANE! Look at the MOUNTAIN of other evidence implicating the government involvement in false-flag terrorism. This is not the first time!!!! Oklahoma City, the first WTC bombing, and you've got to be kidding if you count it a coincidence that G.W.Bush's brother was head of the security company for the WTC complex with a contract that just so happened to end on Sept. 11th. Think people!!! Open your eyes!!! It's about world government of which this same website is reporting on!!! Connect the dots for crying out loud!!! See much of the documentary evidence at 911files.net. For,
condemnation or "speculation" in this case, without investigation (and that being objective) is the height of ignorance. We are called to be people of wisdom and knowledge. Don't reject it out of hand. 911 WAS an inside job!!!! Welcome to the New World Order!!! Put on the whole armor of God that you may be able to WITHSTAND in the evil day which is fast approaching and you and I bible-believers are already being targeted.
|
Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/12/07 02:48:03 PM |
Age 48, CA |
Once again, you speak of the wrong Jesus.
Any Jesus who "Was" Anything is a fake Jesus. The true Jesus "Is" Not "Was".
If he "Was a man of peace" Then once again you have a fake Jesus. The True Jesus was more than "A man" He is also God himself in Human form. The same God who Created all the Heavens and the Earth, The same God who wiped out the Earth in a massive flood sparing only Noah and his family, The same God who destroyed Soddom & Gomorra. The same God who will unleash the seven seals, seven bowls, and seven trumpets of judgemnt upon the Earth. The same God who will return and strike down the nations and rule with a rod of iron. Allowing a rapist to rape without violent resistence is not peace.
|
Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 06:47:50 PM |
Age 48, CA |
Who would make that decision? The enemy. If we need a self procaliamed expert to explain to us why we need to invade a nation 8000 miles away, we don't have a just war. When an eney army lands on our shores and imposes its will on us, we don't need anybody to explain why there is a need to fight. Pacifists would call upon us to not fight and submit to the enemy. If this enemy invader called upon us to bow to thier god or secualr agenda, how many pacifists would comply? How many would cooperate with the enemy and point out Christians who refused to bow down. Too many cowards hide behind pacifism.
|
GOD'S FIRST PROPHECY TO MEN WAS WAR - FAMINE - AND DEATH
| Posted On: 09/06/07 02:13:53 PM |
Age 63, OH |
Jer 28:8&9 TLB "The ancient prophets who preceded you and me spoke against many nations, ALWAYS warning of WAR, FAMINE, AND PLAGUE. So a prophet who foretells peace has the burden of proof on him to prove that God has really sent him. Only when his message comes true can it be known that he really is from God. What an amazing scripture, is it really true. Look at the first prophecy spoken to man in Gen 3:14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,
"Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly(DISEASE)
and you will eat dust(FAMINE)
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring [a] and hers;
he will crush [b] your head,(WAR)
and you will strike his heel."
16 To the woman he said,
"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;(DISEASE)
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,(FAMINE)
and he will rule over you."(WAR)
17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,'
"Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.(WAR)
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,(FAMINE)
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return."(DISEASE)
Lou
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/06/07 01:47:48 PM |
Age 63, OH |
John, I find this very interesting John. If the buildings had the structure insulated well enough from heat then it would not have collapsed. However there are many factors here to consider. It is not only the main columns of steel that would need to be insulated from heat but the floor beams and their connections as well. The floor beams keep the columns straight so they will not buckle and then fail. The study that I seen said the connections of the floor beams to the sides of the building failed in the heat and this allowed the floor beams to fall of course. Without the floor beams the columns buckled and failed. Once they failed at the point of the fire, then the momentum of the falling structure caused complete failure. If you have any info concerning the asbestos please let me know as I would be very interested about this. Lou - lounewton1347@yahoo.com
|
WOULD A PACIFIST CALL THE POLICE
| Posted On: 09/06/07 01:24:01 PM |
Age 63, OH |
You bring up a very good point. Would a pacifist call the police if someone was stealing from him, raping his wife, kidnapping his child. I think almost all who claim to be pacifist would call the police. But the police would get there too late to prevent the crime and I speak from much experience. But why would he call the police. If he does not believe in violence, the police will use violence. He condemns the policeman for being a policeman, but then calls him. The pacifist does not want to use violence, but it is OK for a vile policeman to use violence for him. He expects the policeman to do what he will not do. Does not this indicate he thinks himself better than the policeman. If it is sin then why would he encourage sin by calling the police. If he thinks turn the other cheek was an answer for ALL situations then if the man is stealing from him then let him help the thief carry out his goods. (which sometimes would be the correct thing to do)If the man is raping his wife, who would say it was right to help hold her down for the man. If the man is kidnapping his child what kind of monster would say here is my other child. In these responses many who say they are pacifist are quick to go to hate and war just because a person disagrees with them. I am tempted to think that some take this position just because they are afraid to fight. We are all afraid to fight. We should all trust in the Lord Jesus to help us for He surly will help us if we ask Him to. I hate to fight but the Lord has told me to do things that would have paralyzed me in fear if He had not also gave me the courage to do what he asked. The Bible does NOT TELL US TO FOLLOW PACIFISM. THE BIBLE DOES NOT TELL US TO FOLLOW WAR. THE BIBLE TELLS US TO FOLLOW THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. Lou
|
Ah...
| Posted On: 09/05/07 08:12:46 PM |
Age 19, MN |
Thank you very much. You actually answered the second point I was going to make. When one is going to argue what Jesus did during His earthly ministry, it is often treated as if the rest of the Bible is irrelevent, when if fact, the Bible claims to be the inerrant Word of God (something Jesus Himself stated)! So thank you for your well stated point.
|
Re: I have question....
| Posted On: 09/05/07 02:18:32 PM |
Age 48, CA |
The very nature of your question is significant. Who IS Jesus? Too many false believers speak "Jesus was...(Fill in agenda)" Jesus is God himself in human form.
The same God who created the HEavens and the Earth. The same God who cast Adam & Eve out of the garden of Eden. The same God who wiped out the entire Earth sparing only Noah and his family. The same God who destroyed Soddom & Gomorra. The same God who commanded Joshua to take the promised land by force.The very God who allowed the Pagan nations to over run Isreal when they became disobedient. The King of Kings who will return to strike down the nations and rule with a rod of iron. Even at the Cross, he took on his own wrath to spare us all from a judgement none of us could pass by our own works.
|
Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/05/07 02:09:45 PM |
Age 48, CA |
I agree with what you are saying but even in Afgahnistan, we have shifted from going after those who did it to propping up our puppet government.
Being a 26 year veteran, I can hardly be called a pacifist but the military I joined was a military who repelled invaders. Not assumed the role of invader.
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/05/07 12:52:42 PM |
Age 47, MO |
Here is something I never heard stated anywhere by anyone- My theory is that the buildings colapsed because of the asbestos removal mandated by our government to apease lawyers. What I am saying is that if the asbestos was not removed, the steel wouldn't have heated to the point of collapse. My theory, friends, is the real travisty of the Government cover up. The government did not bring down the towers, greedy lawyers did with bogus asbestos/cancer data. John
|
Jesus is God...
| Posted On: 09/05/07 09:48:53 AM |
Age 19, MN |
Thank you. So, since Jesus is God...that means that we can't simply take the Gospels and then ignore the rest of the Bible. While not all commands/precepts and so forth are part of Christian living (for example, we do not need to sacrfice bulls for our sins), we do need to recognize that Jesus being God means that He wouldn't contradict Himself. Lou, you already agree with me on this issue being discussed, so this post is mainly for people who claim Jesus was a pacifist. Yes, Jesus didn't start a war when He came 2000 years ago. But, that wasn't His plan either. He is coming again and this time, in full battle gear. If we assume that Jesus was a pacifist (and what I of course mean by pacifist is that people should never fight in wars, never protect themselves, and capital punishment is never ok, even for 1st degree murder), then, literally, God is self-contradictory, since in the OT, there were many wars fought. In fact, some nations were punished by God through Israel's invasion (whom later were punished for their sins in similar fashion!). Now, are Christians to turn the other cheek? Sure...private vengence is never condoned in the Bible. That's what "an eye for an eye" was being used in Jesus' time, as a basis for private vengence. This is as opposed to having a trial where the person must show that his eye was knocked out on purpose in court! If he could prove that, then the offender was punished as such. If he couldn't...then the accused was not punished. Now, Christians are to be peaceful people, not going out and starting wars and fights. But there are times when it is a good idea maybe to fight back. For example, if some woman is about to be raped, should we allow that to happen because we are peaceful? One might say, "Call the police". OK, but the police don't appear (usually) within 10 sec. of being called. So what should one do in the meantime? Reason with the rapist? Probably not a good idea, right? Howabout fight 'em off, even if means flattening his head with a shovel (if necessary)? Anyway, regardless on one's position on this, you guys all have a great day and God Bless!
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/04/07 04:28:34 PM |
Age 21, MN |
Good call 21 MI.
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/04/07 03:20:10 PM |
Age 48, CA |
No, one does not have the "Go ahead" To jon the military but niether does one who comes to Christ have an abligation to leave the service either. We have the Centurion who came to Christ in order to have hi servant healed and we have Cornelius. Neither were commanded to leave the Military. When soldiers asked John the Baptist "What shall we do?" They were commanded to do thier jobs honestly "(Collect no more taxes than you are commanded to") And "To be content with their wages" Once again, if there was any moment where those in the military would be commanded to leave the service, this was it. While I do repent of much of my service (Not all) It is not in the spirit of christian pacifism but more in the waste generated by a self serving government institution. Of actually cruising the harbors armed with an M-4, operating attack dolphins, and searching under ships for any bombs that might have been planted in the months following 9-11, I refuse to repent.
|
Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/04/07 01:18:06 PM |
Age 44, MD |
Definitely not; had He been pacifist, He would NOT have driven the money-changers and lamb/calf/dove sellers out of the Temple Courts.
Also a list of notable soldiers (and air/sea warriors) who were committed Christians:
(1) George Washington -- Revolutionary War general and first US President
(2) Bernard Montgomery -- top British General in European/Mideast/North-African Theatre in WW2
(3) Hugh Dowding -- Royal Air Force Chief of Staff during WW2, especially Battle of Britain
(4) Charles Orde Wingate -- the Britisher who laid the foundations for the Israeli Army
(5) Chester Nimitz -- US Navy Admiral who commanded the victorious US forces at Midway
|
PEACE ?
| Posted On: 09/04/07 12:52:22 PM |
Age 63, OH |
You say you are for peace. But can we believe men. I once met a man who carried a can of gas around and made noises like a car. he even slept in the garage. But he was not a car even though he said he was. You say you are for peace, but when I read your post all I read was hate, judgment, and war. It seems you do not really follow what you preach. Lou
|
THERE IS NO MEDIATOR EXCEPT JESUS
| Posted On: 09/04/07 12:46:11 PM |
Age 63, OH |
Brother i have been walking with the Holy Spirit about the same amount of years you have been on this earth. This one thing I have learned. I try not to tell anyone what Jesus would have them do. For any minister of the gospel of Christ has only one job. That is to point that person to follow Jesus and not himself. Even if I tell them the right thing to do in that case, I have taught them to follow a man which is me instead of the Lord Jesus. Even Moses made this same mistake as you are making. When they were getting ready to cross the Jordon river the two tribes told Moses God had given them the land on that side of the Jordon River. Moses got angry and was going to have the other ten tribes kill the two tribes that said God gave them land on the side they were now on. When Moses sought God about it they two tribes were right and allowed to settle on the other side. Even Moses was wrong when he tried to tell someone what God would have them do with their life. Moses had one job and that was to tell them to seek God and live. That is why Joshua was chosen to take the place of Moses, for Joshua did not follow Moses but followed the Lord Himself. Jesus is not after our obedience to mere laws or doctrines, but after us to come to know and follow Him. Even if a man follows you and does right, then he has been unfaithful to the Lord Jesus for following you instead of the Lord Himself. If a man has a wife that does not make love to him in the best way, he does NOT WANT SOMEONE ELSE TO MAKE LOVE TO HER TO TEACH HER THE CORRECT WAY TO MAKE LOVE. The man is more concerned that his wife make love ONLY TO HIM than he is with the way she makes love to him. The most important issue here is that we follow Jesus not follow some doctrine of pacifism or war. But every man has to act in faith and decide for himself or else he is following men and not God. He is to consider what all men say, for God spoke even through a donkey, but then follow God. Lou
|
Re: Re: Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/04/07 12:19:08 PM |
Age 63, OH |
Brother i have read many comments of value by you. but you are now speaking from what you do not know instead of knowledge. On 9-11 a friend called me and told me to turn on the TV. I did and seen what we all saw. The first thing I said when i saw the two buildings was 'THEY ARE GOING TO FALL". Was this prophecy or knowledge. For a few minutes later they both fell. I am an engineer and it was knowledge. I had been in the buildings and seen that they were very sturdy but I also know how heat effects steel. The steel did not burn but even at say just 600 degrees it is weakened a lot. Anyone watching could see that the steel would get very hot and very weak. The last building hit was the 1st to come down. The reason for this is that it was hit at a lower floor and so more weight was on the hot weakened steel so it came down first, which is a fact that i also predicted from where it was hit. The 1st building was hit higher so it had to get hotter to weaken it enough for gravity to bring it down. There was no explosion or explosives in the building but Osama Bin-Laden brought these two buildings down by having 20 hate crazed men commit suicide by flying two aircraft into them. The resulting fire heated the steel to a temp hot enough to weaken it and gravity brought them down. The fact that they were so tall worked against them for the taller they are the more weight is on the lower floors. Lou
|
JESUS IS WARRIOR THAT COMES TO SAVE
| Posted On: 09/04/07 11:54:09 AM |
Age 63, OH |
Men follow all kinds of things and people. Some follow pacifism. But i want to follow nothing but the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The Lord Jesus laid down His life for me and calls me to pick up my cross and follow Him. I am willing to be made willing to do anything the Lord would ask me to do. If I say I would do this but not that then my following Him is not unconditional. Who wrote Ecclesiastes 3; 1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace. Didn't The Lord Jesus write this for it is in the Bible is it not. Has God changed from then till now. I hate war and hope peace is in my future but I am willing to wage war if the Lord would require it of me. One thing I find seems to be true of many men. They are pacifist when someone else is struck down, but spew out hate and war when anyone even disagrees with THEM. I am not saying you are like this dear brother. But i have seen this ugly trait in someone very close to me by the name of Lou. Lou
|
Re: Did Jesus teach pacifism?
| Posted On: 09/04/07 11:50:39 AM |
Age 36, CA |
This article is so hypocritical and illogical. He quotes Jesus only once, and that quote suggests Jesus was clearly a pacifist. Then, to counter htis, the author quotes MEN and offers his own OPINION. He offers NOTHING from Jesus to counter the view of pacifism, and in fact ignores the many OTHER passages from the Gospels that also SUPPORT pacifism, such as "those who live by the sword die by the sword" and "blessed are the peacemakers" and "who is without sin cast the first STONE."
Clearly, Jesus did not support violence.
The worst part of this discussion is the idea that God creates governments and gives them authority. So whoever claims authority is backed u by God? Whoever happens to be in control of government is God's representatives on Earth? How about Hitler? Should German Christians have resisted him, or followed Lukes cowardly advice to "obey"?
Thd disciples were flawed human beings with an imperfect graspt of Jesus' teachings. Only the Lord himself is our Master, not Paul, Luke or Peter.
Violence is a tool of Fear. Jesus taught love.
War is the tool of imperialism. Jesus taught fellowship and forgiveness.
A nation's actions and laws are not always Holy or righteous.
When nation and faith conflict...choose God.
daniel
brezenoff@hotmail.com
|
JESUS IS WARRIOR THAT COMES TO SAVE
| Posted On: 09/04/07 11:38:31 AM |
Age 63, OH |
Men follow all kinds of things and people. Some follow pacifism. But i want to follow nothing but the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified. The Lord Jesus laid down His life for me and calls me to pick up my cross and follow Him. I am willing to be made willing to do anything the Lord would ask me to do. If I say I would do this but not that then my following Him is not unconditional. Who wrote Ecclesiastes 3; 1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,
4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,
5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them,
a time to embrace and a time to refrain,
6 a time to search and a time to give up,
a time to keep and a time to throw away,
7 a time to tear and a time to mend,
a time to be silent and a time to speak,
8 a time to love and a time to hate,
a time for war and a time for peace. Didn't The Lord Jesus write this for it is in the Bible is it not. Has God changed from then till now. I hate war and hope peace is in my future but I am willing to wage war if the Lord would require it of me. One thing I find seems to be true of many men. They are pacifist when someone else is struck down, but spew out hate and war when anyone even disagrees with THEM. I am not saying you are like this dear brother. But i have seen this ugly trait in someone very close to me by the name of Lou. Lou
|
|
|
|
|
