Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 09/10/07 11:54:12 AM |
Age 64, GA |
I think all of your readers would profit from reading: http://frfrogspad.com/religion.htm
(Fr. Frog and the Church). This website was set up by Verger John Schaefer. You all may find something of value in this website.
I do not think law abiding citizens are to be left to the mercy of criminals either in society or in the government. That is not the way I interpret the Bible or believe that it’s God’s will for us. It’s appalling to me that any Pastor would put his church congregation in jeopardy. The right to bear arms is guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution and it’s not the law-abiding citizens we worry about; it’s the criminals. The criminals are going to be armed whether there’s a law or not.
Also I believe all the anti-firearms laws that are being proposed by many politicians are in violation or the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Regards,
Bob
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Re: Feminism
| Posted On: 09/10/07 03:23:02 AM |
Age 19, OH |
I think I understand what you are saying, but I also think that feminism gets a bad rap. There's a difference between radical feminism and mainstream feminism (I'm probably telling you nothing you already know). I call myself a feminist. It is my way of reclaiming the true meaning of word: equality. I think it's detrimental to criticize men as 'feminist.' Being a feminist does not harm one's masculinity--many of my male friends are feminists.
When I hear the word 'effeminate' I immediately think of the stereotypes that often are applied to women: passive, gentle, soft-spoken, etc. People should be careful using that word, for in doing so they are unconciously perpetuating a harmful stereotype.
I also think of Christian men who do not fit the typical defintion of masculinity. To be criticized as feminine (and all the stereotypes society has applied to the word) seriously damages them. What if they are dealing with same-sex attraction? An insult like that could greatly hinder their recovery.
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 09/08/07 10:44:41 AM |
Age 51, WV |
I agree with the article. I am no Bible scholar, but have noticed two things about Romans 13 and its applicability which support the article.
Both have to do with the definition of "government".
The first is that, at the time when the book was written, government was imposed from outside, and individuals had no part in it nor influence over it. Today, in this country, in theory, WE are the government. So our own consciences, responsible exclusively and directly to God, are now on the same level as "the government"
Second, the passage of Scripture goes on to describe,or in effect, to define Government. Government IS that which rewards good and punishes evil.
If an institution does not reward good and punish evil, then it is not a [biblically defined] government at all, and deserves neither respect nor obedience
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"Feminist" or feminine???
| Posted On: 09/03/07 11:44:16 PM |
Age 59, OR |
Dear Age 19, OH, I appreciate and agree with your assessment of both the term “feminine”, and yourself [& gifts] within that term. “Femininity”, although you did not make use of this term, is also complementary. As to derogatory terms, I did not find the above poster at all using or including either term; “femininity”, or 'feminine', and especially “as an insult”. ‘PGW’ did, in fact, correctly use ‘feminist’, and you correctly added ‘feminized’ “as insults”, although you admit “I fail to see the point of using the words 'feminized' and 'feminist' as insults.” Please learn to separate the latter terms from the former and note that they are more or less the modern-day equivelant of “effeminate” warned against in 1Cor. 6:9, unless you have a problem with God’s use of these terms in the NT [of which, I have not noticed such in your other recent posts above]. Before you object, please note that I am a supporter of “CBE” [Christians for Biblical Equality] and other “egalitarian” forums. In our current day and age, these 2 terms have been found to be absolutley ‘agenda created and driven’ for the endtime of the ‘nuclear family’, our nation and of this ‘Age’, and I would caution you to reseach the connections to those terms and carefully withdraw yourself from their influences [Refs provided if you request]. Please don’t read me as ‘dissin’ you, but at my age, unless you are a ‘speed-reader’, and an avid, careful reseacher, you would be hard-pressed to catch up to all the reading, and then the “eye-witnessing” of the 2, 3 generations before me of researchers who suspected, wrote of, and documented ‘peoples, places, and events’ that have somehow ‘worked’ toward that predicted NWO, as found in the Final Book, what can you say?... Dan RN
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/31/07 10:01:02 PM |
Age 83, WA |
Pastors who agree to violate the US Constitution are not literate in the history of Germany in 1932.
The religious institutions did not respond to the methods of the Nazi party and therefore lost control of the government. The Weimar republic had a constitution based on the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
There was not a Moral Majority to warn all citizens. Jerry Falwell was later mirrored by Dietrick Bonehoffer, Hans Lillja, Martin Neomueller, but by then the noose that killed the freedom of expression was tight and strangled free speech. Further, the Pastors have not learned the lesson of Purple Finger Day in Iraq. These people were willing to die to vote and speak freely.
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Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/31/07 08:55:56 PM |
Age 19, OH |
I assume that you are aware that George Washington was a Freemason, not a Christian. In light of that knowledge, please provide the quotes that prove that George Washington spent so much time in prayer.
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Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/31/07 08:50:57 PM |
Age 19, OH |
Instead of slinging unfounded assertions, why don't you provide evidence for your claims? Where is the statistic that proves that men form half of the abused population? And, who came up with that statistic? Was it an independent organization or one with a clear bias?
Domestic abuse is extremely serious. It is rampant in Christian and secular homes alike. http://www.endabuse.org/resources/facts/
I urge to visit this link to learn the actual facts of abuse.
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Re: Re: Why Are Pastors SHEEPISH??? $$BAAA$$
| Posted On: 08/31/07 08:46:39 PM |
Age 19, OH |
I fail to see the point of using the words 'feminized' and 'feminist' as insults. As a woman, it's highly offensive for me to read that pastors are weak because you somehow believe that they are feminine. Obviously, you have an extremely skewed idea of what it means to be feminine.
I am a woman. I am a rather young woman. However, I am not weak. God gave me an excellent mind and a strong will so that I may use both for His glory. It is not in my nature to be passive, nor is passivity a feminine virtue. God made women as unique individuals, so do not apply 'feminine' as an insult.
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Re: Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/29/07 11:05:44 AM |
Age 51, MI |
I respectfully disagree, brother. Jesus (Yahushua) came unto His own & His own received Him not. We know His purpose, we all know why He violated Jewish law, which was a gross misrepresentation of God's (His own) Law. We are discussing armed rebellion, armed defense, physical force, are we not? Show me where Jesus used a sword. We do not follow Muhammed.
Lets get back to the example of the Apostles, who I believe gave sufficient instruction as to how we are to behave. I see no example or instruction to take up arms against anyone, including the Government. As Hal Lindsey has said, "We are not told to clean up the pond, only to fish in it".
You asked for examples of how the Roman Government was more repressive than that of the U.S.A., correct? Are you serious? We may not have far to go, but until my head is separated from my body, we're not there yet. A Christian living in Saudi Arabia can truly appreciate what the Apostles endured.
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Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/29/07 09:56:29 AM |
Age 37, GA |
God Bless you! Love is always our banner. But it's not love to simply remain silent when something is wrong. We are in a country that thrives on opinion. I disagree with using the King David example. His respect was for the King's Anointing. He never violated God's laws or moral truths in submission to King Saul. When it became obvious that his life was at stake, he hid himself to avoid touching "God's Anointed".
What would we have the Christians in China do? Should they obey and discontinue witnessing through their underground movement and let millions of people suffer an eternal fate? I know none of us want that. Neither should we be silent in our country and just go along with the wishes of our fellows that have not yet received Jesus as Lord. We must speak the truth which is what brings true freedom.
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Re: Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/29/07 09:45:21 AM |
Age 51, MI |
Of course Paul defended himself in court. I would do the same. But Paul did not draw his sword against Rome. WWJD. I know of only one instance where a sword was drawn, and we know our Lord's response to that. True Christianity thrives where Christians are persecuted. Apostasy thrives where Christianity rules. This is a fact, brother. I enjoy our freedom. Don't get me wrong. But I yearn for the relationship with Him that was enjoyed by the members of the early Church, none of whom took up arms against their government.
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/29/07 09:30:38 AM |
Age 60, KS |
How can I best say....AMEN! AMEN! AND AMEN! Our nation is in deep trouble and the rights we have guarded for so long are in jeapardy. The broadcast and in many cases, the print media are no longer reporting the facts on the government but are instead spreading propaganda.
If there wasn't civil disobedience, we wouldn't have the U.S.A. We'd still be under British rule. If it weren't for civil disobedience, we'd probably have fought on in Vietnam, killing thousands more or our troops. If it weren't for civil disobedience, the African-Americans would have no civil rights and women wouldn't have the right to vote. I wonder why we even learn history when we forget it so readily.
Anyway, thanks for letting Christians know that its ok to disagree with a government that isn't acting on their and especially God's behalf. You might let a couple of the 24 hour so called news channels know this too.
Who was it that said "I have met the enemy and he is us?"
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/29/07 04:57:17 AM |
Age 55, KY |
There are a great number of pastors and priests harboring illegal aliens and promoting rebellion against the immigration laws of the United States. They are using Scripture about being kind to the "alien" to do their lawless deeds and violate Rom. 13 and I Peter 2:13, oblivious to good and just principles of immigration law that protect our population. This is teaching the illegal aliens that God supports their rebellious ways, which He does not! Only when the law forbids the preaching of the gospel, as was the case with the Jews forbidding the apostles to preach, did the apostles disobey such a command to obey the higher law of Christ. And even in this, they submitted to the authority of those who punished them and never promoted rebellion among the people.
In our nation we have more rights and responsibilities as citizens than many nations. We have the ability to affect change in the laws. We should be very careful to not promote rebellion to authority, but carefully explain those few exceptions when we must disobey. But even in those cases we are subject to the penalties of the law, wrong though they may be. Such is the price to obey God rather than men and greater the reward in heaven. I am dismayed that such a potentially dangerous subject is treated carelessly by some. Wesley, Luther, Bunyan, Hus, Peter, Paul, and our Lord Jesus all lived in times where governments had some very evil laws, but did not teach rebellion ever. They disobeyed the laws in certain cases knowing they could be punished and even executed, but were willing to lay down their lives for Christ. How many of the pastors in our generation are willing to suffer for the Lord Jesus should their obedience to God place them in that position? How many lay people for that matter? Obedience to Christ should be the focus of the issue. If we cannot obey the Lord by submitting to the governments rule, than we must disobey, but be willing to suffer the consequence, even if it is unjust. Such was the example of our Savior and his apostles.
We have the added responsibility to work to change our laws when they are bad, only within the framework of the law. Surely there could come a time when Americans would need to overthrow a tyrannical government, but let us beware that such a time has not come and should it come due to our laziness and disobedience to God's Spirit, failing to get involved in the affairs of our country, then we should be crying, "Repent!" to Christians, before supporting them in rebellion. Would it not be more profitable to cry out today, "Repent, and return to the Lord! Take up your cross and follow Him who died for you. Be willing to suffer for His name now among a rebellious and gainsaying generation before your inattention and carelessness brings the judgment of God down upon us!" Doug Roy
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/29/07 12:59:16 AM |
Age 61, IN |
The United States exists today because a group of Christian men refused to "bow down to Caesar and wrote the Declaration of Independence at the risk of their very lives because the King refused to listen to the legitimate grievances of the people.
Our nation is doing that today. As the Director of Shattered Men, I have written to dozens upon dozens of Senators, Congressman and state legislators only to be ignored or sent a letter to thank me for supporting the Violence Against Women Act...a law written by the National Organization of Women. This act encourages women to file false accusations of abuse and it rewards women for doing so. No one is allowed to question the validity of these reports. It does not offer any protection for HALF the victims of domestic abuse...MEN. As a result, more women are harmed in the long run but our children suffer the most as our homes are being destroyed at a faster and faster rate. The VAWA is the MOST DAMAGING law ever written for our families. It is not only Congress that turns a deaf ear to this....our Christian ministries do also as I have been ignored when I show unbiased research to this destruction of our families
Each one reading this is also...one false accusation away from having his life destroyed.
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/28/07 08:22:33 PM |
Age 51, SD |
Ever since Lucifer rebelled against the Godhead eons ago, there has always been a conspiracy in the works. For he not only became the "father of lies", but also the "father of conspiracies". In relation to the above article, this overt act of the government strong-arming pastors to subdue their flocks via Scripture is just another conspiracy of the larger conspiracy to destroy the true Church of Jesus Christ.
It's all too easy to take Scripture out of context and get a warped perspective of what is being said/taught, unless one is well-versed/studied/balanced. When Lucifer/Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness, Satan used just enough Scripture to present valid-sounding "temptations", but with wrong/damning conclusions. Jesus - well versed/studied/balanced in Scripture - fought back with Scripture, but with correct/saving conclusions. Our Founding Forefathers were generally well-versed/studied/balanced in Scripture, which shows in how they established the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights - one of those Rights of which is the Second Amendment! - the right of self/national defense against a government run amok! which is what we have NOW in this nation - while yet claiming to be a "Christian" government!
The government and their lackeys (including like-minded pastors/priests/rabbis) can mandate Romans 13 all they want unto incorrect/harmful conclusions, but there are many other verses/chapters of Scripture that can be stood upon unto correct/rightful conclusions and unto the Salvation of this Christian Republic, even if only a Remnant is left afterwards to carry on the Dream of Liberty.
It was never God's perfect sovereign will for Lucifer to rebel and become Satan. Nor is it His perfect sovereign will for the United States to fall as Rome did. (It is not His will that ANY should perish.) Whereas Rome was birthed from pagan origins, our nation was birthed from Godly/Christian origins. How much more will we "Christians" answer unto our Holy God for the allowed destruction of our Nation if we just sit idly by and adopt the attitude of "what will be will be" or "it's prophesy and you can't change it". As it was prophesied that he who sins shall die, yet God - yes, God! - provided a "way of escape" from this sealed-dictum via the death and resurrection of His Son. The United States DOES NOT HAVE TO FALL! But are we "Christians" willing to make the sacrifices necessary to prevent such a fall?
Washington spent more time on his knees (before God) than he spent on his horse (in battle). He lost more battles than he won. Yet the battles that he did win turned the tide. Will we humble ourselves as Washington did? to preserve our Nation, as Washington did to form it? Get on your knees now and empty yourselves before the Almighty! Seek His Wisdom and the Spirit's Quickening. And then prepare for battle!
Revelation 19:11-16.
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Re: Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/28/07 07:31:27 PM |
Age 61, MO |
This article and those related to it are not advocating any violent overthrow of government. The issue is one of defending oneself against oppression of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, when there is an eminent threat by this government of that happening. The threat is even deepened when the government trys to coerce the Christian leaders to assuage their flocks. Any Christian who is in the face of eminent danger, and who would not make some effort to avert the disaster; could be found guilty of tempting the Lord thy God. George Cancilla
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/28/07 06:45:57 PM |
Age 19, CA |
I think the issue is murkier than you are trying to make it. Look at the example of David, when his men were encouraging him to kill Saul and take over Israel. After all, Samuel had appointed him as the next king. However, David never attacked Saul. He never carried banners and picket signs around Saul's house, practicing civil disobedience. Even when Saul attempted to kill him multiple times (1 Sam. 19), all David did was flee. He didn't try to overthrow Saul; in fact, the Amalekite who claimed to David that he killed Saul was killed for daring to lay a hand on the Lord's anointed (2 Sam. 1:1-16). As David makes clear over and over again, it was not his decision to decide when Saul would die or be removed from power. The decision lies with God alone. If the United States is indeed deserting the laws of God, the same things that happened to Babylon, Greece, and Rome will happen to our country. However, it is not our job to force the issue and to force people into following God's laws. If (and only if) people love God, they will keep His commandments. So our primary goal, then, is to show God's love to others so that they will love Him, too.
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/28/07 06:45:41 PM |
Age 37, GA |
I agree. In my opinion, the phrase "...we have no king but Ceasar." comes to mind when I think about these pastors that would choose governmental authority over Godly and/or moral authority. That phrase, in itself was spoken in opposition to our Lord Jesus. Since Jesus is Lord, His Word is our Law. Are we ordained to serve the government as pastors and ministers of the Gospel? Is it not our purpose to be shepherding the flock? Is it wise to take the horn from a ram? We should always pursue harmony with the government when possible but not at the expense of opposing Godly and/or moral truths. The Protestant Church came through opposition to authority. Men like Martin Luther did what was right in the sight of God and so should we.
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/28/07 06:31:24 PM |
Age 38, VA |
Praise God for Worldveiw Weekend and the 'army' of writers like Brandon and Chuck Baldwin amongst others who are not afraid to tell the truth about politics and government...
I agree whole heartedly w/ Brandon...I've had to 'oppose' local governments on several occations for trying to violate my God given and 1st ammendment right to free speech....trying to preach the Gosple in the streets....
It's incouraging to know I'm not the only one taking a stand for righteousness...
Nathan
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Re: Why Are Pastors Agreeing To Violate The U.S. Constitution?
| Posted On: 08/28/07 04:02:43 PM |
Age 51, NE |
Most of our founding fathers who wrote the Constitution were Godly men. Now as we live in 2007, we have men who wish to re-write the Constitution, who appear not be Godly men. We should not obey worldly laws if it causes us to sin against our heavenly Father.
There are alot of Christians leaving the Church because Pastors are following the ways of the world. Please, pray for pastors.. God is doing a new thing. Remember who is the LIGHT of the WORLD **
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