Re: Re: Re: Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/20/07 08:54:08 PM |
Age 45, AR |
The early church formalized the canon based on the analogia fide with the entire process being governed by the providence of God. So what do you believe in? A god who is big enough to make you feel good about yourself but not big enough to preserve his word? Seems like a pretty silly belief to me. God has either revealed Himself reliably and objectively in the Bible or we have no justification or foundation for believing that He has revealed Himself at all. You take the whole bottle of pills, or none at all. If you do not locate the word of God in Scripture, then the word of God is hopelessly lost to human subjectivity. Answer me this, if God's word is not objectively and inerrantly inscripturated in the Bible, then how can you ever know that you speak of the word of God as opposed to your own thoughts about the word of God? Discernment is in the eye of the beholder. What you call discernment, I call a sinful assertion of foolish and rebellious autonomy. The larger conversation of which you speak is just group navel gazing. What we need is to obey the word of God, repentently. Your problem is not that you are judgmental, it is that you exercise poor judgment.
|
Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/20/07 08:24:21 PM |
Age 65, NY |
They are trying to make it a political issue, but it is not. It is a spiritual issue. And we all are going to have to answer to God for what He led men to write in the Bible, as well as our yielding outselves to Him to be Savior and Lord of our lives.
|
Re: Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/16/07 04:57:02 PM |
Age 51, MO |
I understand exactly what you are saying.Things change in society and how we view things. Examples - It was immoral and sinful to have long hair on a male in the sixties, yet not a sin today. Women having equal rights not biblical in the past now OK. How about keeping the Sabbath holy, when was the last time a Conservative Christain proposed a law that no one be allowed to work on Sunday. How about all the dietary laws.
It is a sin to be greedy, how about not allowing anyone to "gather your riches" here on Earth". Are 401k accounts sinful?
How about the death penalty for pagans and astrologers It would be biblical to do so.
What about jail time for someone that doesn't turn the other cheek or offer their brother his coat as well as his cloak.
The point is biblical law as applied has changed with the times and cultural. I'm not saying it is right, but it has happened. Todays Christains would not be welcome and be looked apoun badly if they were transported back to say 1860 and expressed the idea that Blacks, Indains, and women should be treated equally it just wouldn't be biblical. The so called "death tax", pushed by Christains because the idea of receiving money without working for it, sinful.
|
Re: Re: Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/16/07 09:43:52 AM |
Age 59, CANADA |
The early church accepted certain texts into the canon of Scripture and rejected others based on the faith experience of those entrusted with the task of discernment. We, too, must continue to struggle with the texts of our faith, seeking to understand where the voice of God sounds clearly and where that voice has been distorted by the broken humanity of the biblical authors.
We must exercise the same discernment with respect to our tradition, seeking to understand where the voice of God seems to be clearly speaking and where that voice has been distorted by the brokenness of the individual members of the community. It is the ongoing practice of careful discernment applied to both the Bible and our tradition that has led to the acceptance of women into the full life of the church, and a host of other changes that have been broadly (if not universally) accepted.
This practice of discernment is indeed a messy thing. All of us wish it were a neat, clear process. But it is not. It never has been, and it never will be. It is a process that all of us should approach in humility, realizing that as convinced as we are of our own interpretations, we can never be completely certain that the voice of Christ that we hear reverberating within our souls is free from the distortion that is surely a part of each of us as human beings.
We are bound to offer to others the fruits of our own discernment. But those should never be offered in order to heap contempt and condemnation upon others. Rather, they should be offered as a contribution to a larger conversation that should lead us together to greater – if not perfect – clarity. Unfortunately, if segments of the Christian community choose to withdraw from this conversation or decline to engage with it constructively, then that greater clarity will be even harder to achieve.
If, in my remarks, I appeared judgmental, or hateful of sinners, I apologize. That was not my intention. My point is that we are commanded to love, and not to judge.
|
Re: Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/15/07 04:36:32 PM |
Age 45, AR |
So you reject the Bible but still assert the reality of right and wrong, good and evil. Based on what standard? If your descriptions of good and evil are only expressions of your own opinion, why should anyone care? Exactly where do you locate a standard for expressing judgments about good and evil, right and wrong, outside of the revealed word of God? Is this standard absolute or relative? Is it personal or impersonal? Is it authoritative or permissive? Is it necessary or contingent? Is it law or consensus?
|
Re: Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/15/07 02:08:48 PM |
Age 30, IA |
Where does the Bible say that slavery is good and that lefties are unfit in church and society? "When relationship vows are broken, when partners are betrayed, when individuals are promiscuous, then that is wrong..." You sound very judgemental. How do you know this, since you disregarded the Bible twice earlier in your post? Maybe it's you who doesn't get it. You falsely accuse us of hating homosexuals when we call sin sin; does that mean you hate people who have extramarital affairs? If sexual orientation is up-for-grabs how do you know all sexual practices are not (remember not to use Scripture because you disregarded it twice)?
|
Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/15/07 10:48:47 AM |
Age 47, MO |
Peter: Good job but unfortunately most Americans and certainly most Christians fear rocking the boat, especially the boat that they are in. Complacency is a sin that will damn America to hell. The christian logic- "it's God's preordained will." If God is sovereign, if God predestines, if God is in control- then my inclinations, my desires to do good are contrary to the natural world. A true statement, but the Christian forgets that the Holy Spirit in us is the source of desire to do good in a fallen world. Perhaps most "Christians" are not Spirit led, but led by self?
|
Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/15/07 09:45:06 AM |
Age 59, CANADA |
You just don't get it, do you? Just as it took centuries to realize that slavery was evil, regardless of what the Bible said, just as it took centuries to realize that the left-handed are not unfit for full roles in the church and in society regardless of what the Bible said, similarly we - as a society - are waking up to the fact that some small percentage of our population is gay, and some small percentage always will be gay, and that being gay is not evil. When relationships are monogamous, faithful, and committed, then society is well served. When relationship vows are broken, when partners are betrayed, when individuals are promiscuous, then that is wrong, whether it is heterosexual or homosexual behavior, and the individuals who behave this way will be judged - not by us, but by God.
Jesus commanded us to love our God, and to love neighbor as ourselves; all the rest, as Rabbi Hillel said, is commentary.
|
Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/15/07 07:12:00 AM |
Age 50, FL |
Your observations are right on and scary. If TV or movies are to be believed, one would think that every other person one meets is homosexual. It's not true! And too many Christians have just let the lie be perpetuated. Now we are fighting an uphill battle to educate the masses. There is a battle raging for truth and the souls of those trapped in the 'gay' lifestyle. The mayor of Ft. Lauderdale has stepped up to lead the fight in his city and is taking the flack for it. Please keep him and his family in your prayers! Thanks.
|
Re: Are We Goin' to San Fransisco?
| Posted On: 08/15/07 06:37:31 AM |
Age 48, OH |
Interesting that young people see no problem with homosexuality. That shouldn't be a surprise given the apparent lack of shame for heterosexual couples openly living together outside of marriage and the promiscuity that is rampant in today's culture.
By the same token, as lying and stealing and any of the other ten commandments are becoming less a problem in our society, it is no woner that we are adopting an anything goes attitude.
We can not compromise in the preaching of the Gospel and the teaching of the Word. It is all equally relevant in God's eyes.
|
|
|
|
|
