Re: Re: Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/21/07 11:23:14 AM |
Age 34, FL |
Excellent! I actually did not come away from the article knowing for certain what the author's answer to his own question was because the response was so "balanced. I understand the answer to the question more fully due to this particular posted response (btw, thanks for clarifying the "NO!"), than I did from the article even though some great questions were left for the reader to consider. I also know the truth of this reader's response to be true from my own life's experience, my grace-carried walk with Christ since I was saved at age 7, now 34. I am in His grace for HIS glory!
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Re: Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/18/07 09:47:47 PM |
Age 38, OK |
Sorry! Meant to say "NO!" in the first line of my post...I'm perfect in position (in Christ) but not in condition (yet!) so I still make mistakes.
Eternally safe and secure in Him,
DL
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Re: Re: Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/18/07 04:35:41 PM |
Age 24, CA |
I'm with you...We, as Christians have to make a few decisions about the word of God and stand firmly by them. Either God's word is true, therefore ALL of it is truth, or He's a liar. Period. So, if there's only ONE verse that does so much as suggest, let alone state clearly that I can't take my salvation to the bank just because I prayed a prayer one time, that should put a healthy fear of God in me! God said that many would come to Him and say "Lord,Lord..did we not prophesy in your name!? etc." and that He would say "Depart from me...I never knew you!" The fact that the person in question here first, called him Lord, and secondly was clearly suprised that their idea of their Christian walk wasn't His idea...should tell us that these weren't non-believers! These were people who had accepted that Lord as their Savior and obviously, for whatever reason, never walked in the fullness of "knowing" their God.I don't say this at all in a proud way...I should just make us everyday fall on our faces and say "God...give me eyes to see and ears to hear your voice. Teach me what it means to truly know you!
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/14/07 11:17:12 AM |
Age 40, CA |
Shane i am so glad that you wrote this article my brother. You know at times it is hard to put into words what we would like to tell people out there who are in doubt. You hit the nail on the head. Our Lord Christ Jesus did also say you will know them by their fruit,(Mat. 7:16-20) what does this mean? you say? Well a true believer will be walking in a changed life not necessarily a perfect life but a transformed life(Rom 12:2). I like your analogy of the pig and sheep. So this word of encouragement goes out to all of you who could be struggling. Be the sheep not the pig! God bless you all and read read daily and pray pray daily. Do not forsake the assembly of the saints as is the custom of some(Heb 10:24,25). Give your whole heart to Christ and open the door he will come in and sup with you and you with him (Rev.3:20)
Your brother in Christ
Joseph
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Re: Re: Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/14/07 04:31:19 AM |
Age 50, NETHERLANDS |
Hebr. 6:4-6 (KJV)reads:
4.For it is impossible for those who were ONCE ENLIGHTENED, and have TASTED of the HEAVENLY GIFT, and were made PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST.
5.And have TASTED the good WORD OF GOD, and the POWERS of the world TO COME,
6.If they shall FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN UNTO REPENTANCE; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
So Scripture is talking about none saved people?! And you believe that?
Then I am the Tsar of Russia!
Joop
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Re: Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/13/07 11:34:25 PM |
Age 58, VA |
Why would you want to cancel your subscription over an article not in support of on OSAS or one in support of OSAS. Even though you might not be able to agree on this issue, why would you seperate from your Brothers on this one issue. If you would read the disclaimer again, you would see that CWN does not agree with everything that is printed here. I have several good friends who believe OSAS and are KJOnly, but we have so much more in common than those issues. Don't get me wrong, I get my fill of this topic and would rather talk about trusting God, learning to walk in obedience, learning how to renew my mind and on and on. But to cancel a subscription over this one Topic seems a little severe to me. I also find many things in common with those on other sites that believe in OSAS, even though I don't. You are my brother or sister! Please don't let this seperate us. We should be able to talk about it or not without going that far. I say this just to help us all walk softly. I recently got all bent out of shape over this and it is wrong and not pleasing to the Lord. We can agree to disagree on some issues when it is all said and done, and this is one of them!
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Re: Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/13/07 11:15:05 PM |
Age 58, VA |
In saying, "There are far, far more Scriptures of God's covenant commitment to keep us to the day of His coming than there are of anything we do to keep ourselves" you have disproved the case for OSAS. If there are "some" or even "one" scripture stating that we can do anything to keep ourselves in the faith than that means "we have a part" in determining whether or not we will "remain in the faith." God promises to keep us, but we can choose to go away from Him, denounce Him or deny Him whenever we want. After that there will be no second chances! I haven't counted, so you may be right that "there are more scriputures saying "He will never leave us" than "we can deny and forsake HIm, losing our salavation
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Re: Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/13/07 01:05:28 AM |
Age 35, AZ |
Amen & Amen to your comment! I couldn't agree more - the author of this article has completely waffled around the truth of Scripture. All one need do is use Scripture to interpret Scripture & one will find that the Bible is abundantly clear on this subject. You CANNOT lose your salvation (John 5:24;6:37-40;10:27-30, Romans 5:9-10;8:1,31-39, among others). Also, applying an exegetical hermeneutic to Hebrews 6:4-6 will clearly show that the author of Hebrews was not stating that you could lose your salvation. John MacArthur addresses this brilliantly in the "MacArthur Study Bible". Those who were being addressed in Heb. 6:4-6 were unbelievers who had been exposed to the truth of the Gospel but had not exercised the genuine faith necessary for salvation. Anyone who teaches that one can lose their salvation does not understand why the subject of hermeneutics is so important.
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Re: Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/12/07 06:08:20 PM |
Age 38, CA |
I think that you completely missed the point. The goal is not to have a theological debate per se, but to have people examine themselves. Have they truly trusted in Christ?
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/12/07 05:13:17 AM |
Age 35, MS |
in response to the article particularly the first paragraph, those passages could be used in that respect but, you must first understand that you are justified,sanctified,and eventually glorified by faith in the finished work of the cross and that alone.not of any works that one should boast.Paul said Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? the only way to please God is by faith. so, to answer the question if you were saved by placing your faith in Christ and the crossand then sometime later refute that you believe that what do you have to stand on ? nothing In hebrews the writer compared falling away to the israelites who died in the wilderness because of their unbelief and then said ...Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 08:35:10 PM |
Age 46, MO |
Shane: Very nicely written article giving a fair representation of both sides of the debate. Thanks!
The proof of salvation is the actions faith produces; good fruit- good branch, bad fruit- bad branch. Simple theology me thinks.
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 06:22:31 PM |
Age 46, NJ |
Here Here! Too many Christians are continuing in sin under the lie of "once saved - always saved" living worse than those who are condemned already! Hebrews 6:4-6 also covers this issue! We can hang on to GOD's life line as long as we wish until the end or we can let go... it's our choice. No one can rip us from God's grasp, but we are also free to walk away.
Please don't "walk away" from God and His great gift of Salvation through Jesus!
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 06:07:58 PM |
Age 66, WA |
Yes, Scripture is very clear we are to walk in the light as He is in the light. In addition, God commands men everywhere to believe.
However, just as we are not saved by any work on our part, we are also not kept by any work on our part. Salvation and Sanctification are the sole what of God without regard to man.
We must give God ALL the ptaise and glory for His Grace and mercy, which are given without regard to man. There are far, far more Scriptures of God's covenant commitment to keep us to the day of His coming than there are of anything we do to keep ourselves. He alone saves us and He alone keeps us saved. We do well to keep our focus on Him who will complete the work He began in us.
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 03:36:47 PM |
Age 71, FL |
Good discussion on a difficult topic. I especially liked the "looking ahead" in faith and not dwelling on past misdeeds.
Shane's "unlocking spiritual power" left me a little bit like Ohio 63, wondering if he was treating that power as a mystical or a personal source. My thought about spiritual power is that our culture is more and more turning to spiritism as new agers and occultists. For this reason I think we need to be very clear when we speak of the Holy Spirit that He is a Person of the Godhead, not a force or power to be sought after.
Jesus made it clear that He did nothing of His own volition, only what the Father commanded. And His miracles were done of the Spirit of the Father. He and the Father are one in Spirit and Truth.
About repentance, I am persuaded that belief and repentance are two sides of the same coin of faith. One cannot believe unless he repents and vice versa. Repentance is the term used in the OT to express faith, and belief is the NT term used by Paul to the gentiles. Repentance has more of a forward looking earthly kingdom orientation (of Israel) while belief is associated with the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, His saving work of the cross and His coming as Messiah. StanMan
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 02:42:35 PM |
Age 35, MS |
in response to the article particularly the first paragraph, those passages could be used in that respect but, you must first understand that you are justified,sanctified,and eventually glorified by faith in the finished work of the cross and that alone.not of any works that one should boast.Paul said Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? the only way to please God is by faith. so, to answer the question if you were saved by placing your faith in Christ and the crossand then sometime later refute that you believe that what do you have to stand on ? nothing In hebrews the writer compared falling away to the israelites who died in the wilderness because of their unbelief and then said ...Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 02:40:35 PM |
Age 35, MS |
in response to the article particularly the first paragraph, those passages could be used in that respect but, you must first understand that you are justified,sanctified,and eventually glorified by faith in the finished work of the cross and that alone.not of any works that one should boast.Paul said Gal 3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Gal 3:3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? the only way to please God is by faith. so, to answer the question if you were saved by placing your faith in Christ and the crossand then sometime later refute that you believe that what do you have to stand on ? nothing In hebrews the writer compared falling away to the israelites who died in the wilderness because of their unbelief and then said ...Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 12:24:37 PM |
Age 52, MN |
Probably the most logical response to this question that I have ever heard. If at the end of the day, we can ask ourselves: "Am I in a right relationship with Jesus Christ?" and say yes with peace in our heart, then we can sleep very well.
P.S. You may want to speak with the department/person who write the tags for your articles. "Lose" and "Loose" are two different terms. Thanks!
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 10:58:42 AM |
Age 42, TX |
I generally enjoy reading the worldview articles, but this one almost makes me want to cancel my email subscription. The answer to the question is no, you cannot lose your salvation if you are indeed truly saved. This biblical answer was not presented in the article. If the author was planning to waffle around the issue, he should have chosen a different title to the article.
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The "works" of formula salvation...
| Posted On: 07/11/07 10:03:48 AM |
Age 43, TX |
Shane,
I think you've done a fair job at reaching out to those who are religious knowing all about Him but not yet in relationship with Him. However, the religious who are not new creatures have established an entire works doctrine to make themselves FEEL saved taught through huge ministries although I will not toss out ministry names here. One ministry that I have in mind has a nice tidy checklist which paints man being sorry for his sins and "accepting" Jesus as their savior, then there is a prayer found in their literature that can be uttered or even spoken for you by a facilitator. Voila- they're "saved"! I have been in organizations which had men who could quote chapter and verse of the Holy Scriptures and did not know Him at all. When I'd share on a personal relationship level about the Lord and his work in my life (fellowship), they would shift from my heart warmth back to glowing (and true)words about Him, but those words were not life to them. My heart aches for these children of the adversary who participate in man's system of thinking they are in the fold but still in their heart believing they can do/know/believe enough to save themselves- they just follow the system in order that they be saved for eternity. This seems as much like works to me as legalism. I am so happy to see the Lord working with these unsaved through ministries which err on the side of, "please examine yourselves". Bless you, Shane. I am not a works person except having God working in me and through me which technically is not me working in the first place, is it? I am just a little ole branch abiding in the precious Vine expecting that Vine to bring forth fruit because of His work and not because of anything I do except possibly to remain. Who looks upon a branch and gives it kudos for staying attached to a tree or a leaf remaining on its stem?
My day of salvation occured when there was much prayer for me from a small group, and I was drawn to wonder about Him. All alone, I asked in my heart, "what about you, God?" He showed Himself to me- just a glimpse which made me in awe, and He impressed upon me, "now, will you be lord, or am I Lord?" Trust me, when I had a glimpse of Him and had already seen the results of my "lordhsip" of my life, it was a no brainer. It was seeing Him although I cannot describe how that "looked" because it wasn't like a 900ft Jesus standing in front of me or anything. I've been a new creature of 14.5 years, and I tried to be unsaved for a few weeks about 5 years ago (long story)- anyway, wallowing as you put it, Shane, and not looking to Christ was not enjoyable and was flat and felt so unreal compared to the fullness of Him. I am still painfully aware that I could give back the gift of salvation, but because I know Him, I would not do that- He has made Himself too precious and real in my life. Moreso, than my knowing Him (dumb sheep here) is that He is the Good Shepherd, and He knows me and keeps me!
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Re: Can I Lose My Salvation?
| Posted On: 07/11/07 09:20:02 AM |
Age 47, ID |
****We all sin and fall short, but the important question to ask is what is the condition of your heart—have you truly repented and trusted in Christ as your Lord and Savior, or are you trusting in religion and tradition?**** of course, the Scriptures say no such thing. It is in the past tense, not a present tense reality. If one wishes to make an argument for sin instead of repentance and faith, they must come up with a better proof of a present tense "sinning-saint." My question is, are you trusting in the doctrine of a "sinning-saint" tradition instead of the Savior that came to save us FROM our sins?
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