Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 05:43:15 PM |
Age 21, AR |
Here are a few articles I stumbled across some time ago about this subject:
Be Sober
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThoughtstoPonder/message/75
Be Sober: Part II
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThoughtstoPonder/message/76
Be Sober: Part III
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThoughtstoPonder/message/77
Three great articles for further reading to anyone who is interested.
in love,
>>zack
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 04:58:14 PM |
Age 59, MO |
I appreciate your concern. However, I don't think you read the article carefully enough. In at least two places the author states that meds are sometimes necessary, especially in the initial stages of irrational anxiety. Also, she says that it helped her get out of the basement. She is also coming off of them slowly, under a physician's care. Please read carefully before making a diagnosis. Your response gives the impression that meds should be given for almost any sign of depression, and that meds should be used long term by most people regardless of the root causes. Surely you don't mean to say that.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 04:43:20 PM |
Age 59, MO |
Dear friend, I urge you to talk with your physician first before withdrawing "cold turkey" from any medication. Also, get solid biblical counsel before making this decision and work at this slowly. God will help you know what is best. You may consider finding a biblical counselor in your area (visit the NANC website for one good source of help). The woman in the article is not even completely weaned off of anti depressants, though she is nearly there. And remember that in some cases such meds are necessary. Here is a paragraph from the article to remember: "I am not saying that it is never appropriate for a woman to use prescribed medication to fight depression, especially if it has a physiological cause and has so skewed the person’s thinking that she has become irrational.[1] Recognizing and confessing sin does require rational thought, and it is difficult to hold a woman accountable who is incapable of thinking through what God requires. In some cases, antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs might help a person get to a place where she can think rationally. At this point, a qualified nouthetic counselor or pastor can begin to lead the individual to see how her own sin has brought her to the state she is in[2]. By the grace of God, she will repent, turn from her sin, and recover from her depression, alleviating the need for the drugs."
God bless you as you find your help in Him. There is real hope in the Lord.
I am writing to caution against a stall in this process.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 04:27:23 PM |
Age 52, ID |
This doctor is so right. What is seriously missing in this woman's account is her sin of business. Her life is overwhelming. God said through the Psalmist; Cease STRIVING and know that I am God. God made our bodies with limited capabilities.
I often see this in others at my church. I have learned how to put it in perspective. These people are carrying a plate that is too full and spilling over. They need to do a couple of things. First, Dump most of the things off their plate. Then, seek God's direction about what He wants them to be busy doing. Then, GET A SMALLER PLATE based on God's will. We are never told we can have to do it all. This woman had a duty to her family. Her duty to her church was a distance second to her family. Only when she has met all of the needs of her family, both immediate and extended, should she take on the any of the needs of her church. Her pastor is a classic slave driving pastor. He probably is a dictator with many who just follow in the name of "growing the church." He knows that to keep the slaves working, he may need to drug them. First there is coffee and sweets in the lobby. If that is not enough, send them to the doctor for drugs. Tell them to not worry about the family issues, trust God to take care of them. The pastor directed her into an apathy affair. "Don't worry, just keep on working for the church." But, her God given desire to take care of her family would not let her leave her families needs to God. She was correct in this thought, whether it was a conscious thought or just in her sub-conscious mind. This apathy affair was a sin and it caused her to carry even more guilt.
Did this lady need anti-depressants? Probably yes. She needed to get so she could rationally consider what was happening to her. But, then she needed a major remodel of her life with a careful wean from the drugs as soon as possible. Instead, she got that silly grin and went on self-destructing.
I have seen pastors destroy people with guilt ridden over-worked lives. These pastors will be held accountable someday.
Anti-depressants can be the lifeline to changing ones life for the better. The body needs to physiologically heal from the over-use and abuse. Some may need the drugs for long term. I will most likely be a lifer because the drugs are needed to reduce some of the symptoms of a unrecoverable brain injury. Some emotional problems are shown to leave physiological changes and damage. Think of towing a trailer up a long grade and overheating your transmission, causing parts to gets damaged from the heat. On the downhill, it cools off and everything may seem fine, but at the next hill the transmission has to perform again even though it was physically damaged on the previous hill.
I am not denying God ability to heal. But we are not talking about Mary Baker Eddy Christian Scientist theology here. Our spirituality alone will not heal our physical bodies.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 03:05:26 PM |
Age 65, FL |
Thank you doctor for your feedback on this dangerous article. I found a Christian doctor(like yourself) and I thank God. He explained that my depression was biological not spiritual. He knows me personally as we go to the same church. My doctor does not prescribe antidepressants to just anyone. He is very careful.
Another part of my depression is from the pain I suffer from a chronic illness. I was prescribed oxycodone and I take it exactly as prescribed. I've never "upped' the medication and the oxycodone stops my bodily pain and as a "happy accident" we found it helps control my IBS. Thanks to my wonderful, Christian doctors I am able to do my volunteer work, helping others and participate in gatherings of family and friends, even travel again. So lets let the medical profession handle our physical problems (with the help of God) and our church brethren help us with spiritual matters.
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 02:47:05 PM |
Age 61, NY |
Thank you so much for this article. I too was 'urged' to take an antidepressant because I was 'crying' all the time after my divorce and loss of my home, friends, and job. I had to relocate, etc., etc. It was 2 yrs later that I found myself in the 'numb' spot wherein I didn't want to do anything at all and I was MORE depressed, so I decided to get off the medication. I am happy to say that this article does reflect my feelings and thoughts on 'unconfessed' sin and 'lack of repentence' as one reason for feelings of 'depression and hopelessness and being in a trap'; however, I must also say that in the beginning the medication did help me to sleep and become less 'emotional'; however, in the end, WE all MUST take responsibility for our own responses to life and our relationship with Jesus. This was a good article and a confirmation for me of my decision to get off these drugs at the time that I did and for the reason that I did. These 'drugs' can help, but they also can 'hurt' if we allow ourselves to become dependent on them instead of God; in most cases, they are only a temporary fix. Thank you again. donna, NY
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 02:42:48 PM |
Age 50, GA |
I get the impression that some of the people responding to this article are not fully reading it. I think it’s a matter of balance.
The author did not say that people should never take antidepressants. Rather she shared a personal story about how drugs affected her thinking and ability to feel. She feels it hindered her relationship with God as a result.
Rather than causing us to be defensive, it should give us something to consider. I knew most drugs have physical side effects, but had not considered any emotional or spiritual ones until reading this article.
Personally I have suffered from severe depression at various times throughout my life. There were various causes: physical (anemia or some other illness), fatigue, hormonal, circumstantial and spiritual. At times I have been tempted to seek a medicinal remedy, but other than increasing iron to my diet I overcame my depression in other ways.
Some of the ways I overcame depression are: prayer, praise, reading of God’s Word, sleep, proper diet, exercise, confession, talking with a friend, and taking a walk (especially on a sunny day). Like the author, I am merely sharing my own experience and not saying everyone else should do likewise.
I am surprised that this is as controversial a subject as it is. There are two extremes: take no medication at all no matter what or take drugs at the drop of a hat. I don’t think anyone is advocating either extreme.
I think the author would agree that each person has to decide for himself (hopefully seeking God’s guidance) what is best. But at least for me, this article made me stop and think. If I ever do consider taking an anti-depressant, I will remember her story and will pray much before agreeing to take any drug. I’m not saying I will never take an anti-depressant. Only God knows if I will or won’t. But I will be more cautious than perhaps I would have been, considering possible costs, and not for one second do I think that is a bad thing! In fact, I think it’s a very good one.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 02:07:36 PM |
Age 58, VA |
BOY, OH, BOY! SO your 29 years on the planet and perhaps, (what is it ?) 10 years of medical school, gives you the right to say the FDA Approved, American Medical Association way- etc- is the only route to take! Live a little longer and perhaps you will change your tune. So what is wrong with queen bee Jelly or homeopathy? Lots of people are helped by them. There are many over the counter homeopathic remedies available, just like many use Glucosamine/ Condroitin for arthritis. Are you opposed to Chiropractic Medicine also? No one is telling anyone not to have a blood transfusion. No one is telling anyone to handle snakes. And a Christian can have more wisdom at times than any professional doctor! There is an old familiar saying , “a Doctor is not God!” And no one here is playing Holy Spirit and telling anyone not to go to a Doctor or to get off their meds or that they have sin in their own life. But there are certainly those who have been to Doctors, taken their prescribed medical treatments and decided to get off of them and done so quite successfully. I would never tell someone to quit taking their medicine, but there are plenty of people who feel the Lord is telling them to get off of it and have been successful in doing so. So, ( I am just trying to lighten things up a bit when I say this) put that in a peace pipe and smoke it! (ps The word of God, tht means God, The Holy Spirit, Jesus instructed us in Mark 16: 18-20, known as the Great Commission, To go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation....And these signs will accompany those who have believed: in my name they will cast out demons....." Did you tear that page out of your bible? I think the Word is a higher authority than my Doctor! There is a time and a place for everything!
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 01:32:38 PM |
Age 30, WA |
By looking at how many responses there have been to this article it is obvious that a tremendous amount of people have dealt with this or know people that have. I am surprised that not many people are aware of food causes of depression and anxiety - sugar, artificial flavors & colors and other additives to food. And yes, age 29, MD, there are homeopathic remedies for depression and anxiety that have worked for many people including me. St. John's Wart and Fish Oil along with eating the proper foods has cured my depression. The American diet is extremely deficient in vitamins and minerals. Unless you grow and raise your own food, you have to supplement. There are good supplements out there that the body easily absorbs and have proven to be helpful (even though the infamous FDA has claimed otherwise). Everyone is different - we have different causes and therefore different remedies. Another key point is solving the issue causing the depression or anxiety. Why are we trying to make ourselves into superheroes by ingesting chemicals in order to keep our sanity? Our daily lives are getting too hectic and people need to relook at their priorities. We need to relook at what is really important in our lives. Too many people are running after the dollar and literally killing themselves and their families with stress and chemical pills! It's ridiculous! Slow down, eat right, buy some supplements to add to your daily meals, and cut out the things in your schedule that really aren't necessary. Don't buy the brand new car that will put you in debt up to your eyeballs. LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS AND DON'T OVER DO IT! Don't get me wrong, I know there are serious cases where someone needs to be medicated. But physicians are down-right prescription happy!!! The drug companies are brainwashing them and trying to turn us into chemically dependent human beings! Just watch TV and look at how many ads there are for this pill and that pill. It seems like there's a new pill every week! Have you ever heard of restless leg syndrom? I haven't, but there is a pill for that too!!! Ok I'll get off my soap box.
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 01:28:52 PM |
Age 55, CA |
After reading this article on anti-depression drugs, it tells me that a lot of believers out there don't understand depression very much. Depression is not something that people choose, just like they don't choose cancer. But, the people of the church seem to have their heads in the sand on this issue. Yes, some people abuse the medications, but most people who these medications are described to don't want the disease anymore than they want cancer.
With regard to sins, confession is the very best way to retain a close walk with Jesus, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Depression is just like any other disease and needs to be treated; whether in a small group or under a doctors care.
There is a good book out there called "Why Do Christians Shoot Their Wounded" that may shed light on these kinds of illness.
Remember that Jesus came to heal us and that means both spiritually and many times physically.
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 01:12:57 PM |
Age 28, WA |
I just want to say "right on sister!" I've been dealing with VERY emotional circumstances and the Lord has delivered me of depression as I trust in Him. Romans 15:13 says: "Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing(trusting), that you may about in hopw by the bower of the Holy Spirit." He is my only deliverer. And as I've processed the journey WITH Him he has drawn me closer than I could have EVER imagined! I'm so thankful for this wilderness time! I'm thankful for the lessons it's teaching me and then the lessons I will be able to teach my children and the people around me at church. God is our only true deliverer! But like the Doctor in the previous response post said some people need to be on the meds. I can't judge that for other people by being their Holy Spirit but I do believe that as we're walking through deep emotional pain we need to allow the Holy Spirit in to convict and reprove us! Otherwise we'll just remain baby christians...NO Thanks!!! The Lord's face is worth all the pain! I think the author is just trying to warn people not to rely on the drugs to deliver them and make them happy but to allow God to be their deliverer and heal them once and for all! He is definitely big enough!
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 01:10:43 PM |
Age 62, TN |
I am sure the lady did not cover ever base in her article. Multitudes are sinking more deeply into dispair,more and more into suicide and almost without exception our nation's MASS KILLERS are on Prozac, Xanax, Halcion, Haldol, etc. The lady found and experienced genuine hope and freedom; and may many be encourged and find the same. Of course, the god-doctors and the drug companies are counting on all of us 'bowing down' because they alone know what is right and good for all of us!
The god-doctors and drug companies would have us believe that they are all united in their wisdom. Such is not the case. There are highly trained, secular minds- not Bible thumpers- who are also warning of the great dangers of the 'drugging of America'... One such place of a better wisdom is the the International Center for the Study of Psychiatry and Psychology. Go to http://www.icspp.org/ Get and read the works of Dr. Peter R. Breggin, M.D.
Blessings! James
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 12:50:28 PM |
Age 51, NC |
I am in total agreement with the doctor who just posted. It is the Holy Spirit who convicts the believer of sin, not another individual. The implication that sin causes depression is completely unfounded.
I have watched my own father, a solid believer in the Lord Jesus as his Savior, who had repented of his sins numerous times, fall into a acute psychotic depression.
I have watched his calls and prayer to the Lord for mercy, asking this disease to be removed from his body. I have seen not only this in my dad, but in other believer friends--the agonizing cries to Jesus to remove this pain from their bodies. These are believers who fall at the feet of Jesus asking to be relieved from this disease. Has Jesus heard these prayers? YES. For some reason beyond earthly understanding there pain does not go away until receiving medical treatment.(antidepressants) We live in a fallen world.
Another thought-one could say this of ANY disease! Diabetes? Is this from sin? No.
Has anyone read the story of Jan Dravecky, pitcher Dave Dravecky's wife and her pitiful battle with depression? (A Joy I'd Never Known)
The body of believers in her first church gave no help, just condemnation and spiritual judgment. In changing churches, another merciful body of believers saw her pathetic state of depression, prayed for her, and were able to bring this ill woman to where she received MEDICAL help. The result of medical treatment for her depression resulted in a woman who now could pray with a clear mind, worship the Lord with gladness, and grow in Him, etc..
Your article causes a danger to any person being treated for depression. Please do NOT go off your medicine. It is dangerous.
By the way, in the eyes of Jesus we are already seen clean, sinless as our names are already written in glory. To state that SIN explicitly produces depression is stating the Savior afflicts the sinner with such horrible pain, that even sometimes is fatal.
This article is very wrong. May those who suffer with depression, pray, and ask the Lord for guidance as to where they may go to seek medical help.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 12:23:31 PM |
Age 34, AR |
I am not a physician. I graduated college as a RN. I believe that some depression is caused by spiritual problems. I can't say that all mental problems are spiritual just like you can't say they aren't. A lot of Christians are too trusting of physicians. How can you go wrong trusting the Word of God? I know so many physicians that think they can cure all problems with a pill. We have a lot of pill pushing physicians that are making the drug companies very wealthy and thousands of Christians are becoming dope heads. How can you think about sin in your life and get it right if you are numb to it? People need to deal with their spiritual problems first and then seek treatment from earthly physicians. I am "sick to death" of physicians who think they know EVERYTHING. Did your hard work in school make you God? The more I learn about the Bible the less I trust physicians. This woman was sharing what she has been through in her life and how the Lord helped her. That is what she is supposed to do. Who are you glorifying with your life?
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 12:03:20 PM |
Age 48, FL |
If God says: "Your sins and lawless acts, I will remember no more," to believers. Why do we feel like we need to remember them? Are we more righteous than God? Also verse 1 and 2 of Hebrews 10 state that if there was a payment for sin that could permanently take away sin, that there would no more consciousness of sin. God made us to be the righteousness of God in Him. (II Cor. 5:21) You can't get more righteous. That's the key. It's grace. And those who have been forgiven much will love much (Luke 7)
Kees
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 11:34:08 AM |
Age 42, AL |
With all due respect, dear sir, you may be a medical doctor, but in this instance you sure do not come across as a Christian doctor. You sound unkind, unloving and angry, at best, and proud and sarcastic at worst. You do not represent Christ in the way you spoke in this article. I do not wish to judge your heart, but self-righteous-sounding statements are not going to help anybody. In fact, you may be doing a lot of harm having said what you said. You draw very black and white conclusions, while trying to sound like an expert on sin/depression/health issue. You do not know whether a person's depression or anxiety is sin-related or related to a chemical imbalance in his brain. Only God knows that. For a true Christian sin must NEVER be discounted! David's depression was definitely related to sin. I believe that a humble approach to sin is ALWAYS the first step. I must prayerfully ask myself some questions: Is my problem sin-related? Am I unrepentant? Am I proud? Am I self-righteous? Am I bitter? Am I unforgiving? Am I self-focused, self-absorbed? Am I self-pitying? etc. And..., am I willing to ask those who live with me about possible sin in my life? Then, if my conscience is absolutely clear, only after numerous heart-felt pleadings with God and honest heart searching, and the problems are still there, then there may be cause to look for biological/physiological causes. May God grant us wisdom, mixed with reverent fear and submission before Him. To Him be glory!
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 11:16:49 AM |
Age 42, AL |
Dear New Mother, congratulations on the birth of your baby. What a blessing! My response is not necessarily related to the topic at hand but to you personally. I noticed your statements regarding post-partum depression and just instantly felt I needed to reply. Of course you must (as we all must) go before our Lord and ask Him to show you any possible unrepented-of sin. That's a given. But I thought I needed to share with you something else. Post-partum depression is often very likely caused by a huge drop of progesterone (a female hormone) after a woman gives birth. During pregnancy your progesterone levels are sky high and then they drop down hugely after delivery, because your body doesn't need to retain the placenta in your womb anymore. As a result your estrogen levels are relatively higher and there is no good balance between the two.
I strongly suggest you do some research on Natural Progesterone. I am not talking about Progestin, or Provera which are synthetic progesterone wannabees. There are creams available that contain natural progesterone derived from the wild yam. Using such a natural progesterone cream can bring a woman's levels back to normal balance. Dr. John Lee has done years and years of research on women's health especially related to hormone balance. His website will provide you with more information: www.johnleemd.com He has written some excellent books on hormone balance. Ask your doctor to do a saliva (not blood or urine) test for your progesterone level. You might have to pay for it but it's worth it. Talk with your doctor about using natural progesterone cream; or at least get educated about it. You might not be able to use it while nursing.
Post-partum blues are not in your head; they may very well be caused by the huge change in your body after you gave birth. Of course, it is also possible that those levels will return back to normal without aid. Regardless, I would want to be informed regarding this topic.
Our Lord's blessings upon you and your precious baby! I'm praying for you! :)
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 11:13:29 AM |
Age 47, CO |
I completely agree with your post as your story is very similar to my own. I believe that some depressions are caused by circumstances, some are caused by biological imbalances or disease, and some are the result of spiritual sickness and unrepentence. God gave humanity the wisdom to figure some things out on our own and take action to help ourselves, always keeping Him and His will foremost in mind.
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 10:45:42 AM |
Age 29, MD |
I am a physician, and I also have family members who struggle with serious mental illness. I find this article EXTREMELY WRONG AND DANGEROUS. I am very disturbed by people who attribute "spiritual" causes to physiologic disturbances such as depression and mental illness. It is JUST LIKE TRYING TO CAST OUT DEMONS from epileptic patients, or telling people that they will be "healed" of their cancer so they don't need treatment. It sets Christinity back about 1,000 years.
Yes, this writer is trying to say that "some people" need medication, but only if they have are "irrational". I'm sorry, but it is irrational to live in your basement and be unable to come out. This woman CLEARLY needed medication.
I am sick to death of Christians who try to be the Holy Spirit for their brethren. Guess what???? You are NOT the Holy Spirit, you CAN NOT convict someone of sin, and you ARE NOT a medical professional, so stop giving bad medical advice. What next? Are you going to recommend "queen bee jelly" and homeopathy? Christians are so trusting and so spiritually minded that they fall easy prey to people who tell them what is wrong.
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 10:38:36 AM |
Age 43, FL |
Thank you for your insight. I HAVe been a born-again Christian for 19 years. About 3 years ago we went through several "life changing" events: Job loss, selling a home, building a home, relocating, adopting children, etc. I was a basket case. I knew I was being irrational, mean, angry but I could not stop it. I could not pray. My husband, the calm, rational one, bought me a book on "depression." I said, "I am not depressed! I need friends." We are home schoolers as well and were not yet "plugged in" in our new town. It was a lonely time. Finally, my husband sent me to the Dr. who put me on Lexapro. It "took the edge off" and I could think rationally and I could now pray. After a year I took myself off of it. Things had settled down. We were in the new house. Had a new job. The adopted kids were settled in and we were active in our home school support group. Although I struggled with the drugs vs. God I concluded that one does not replace the other, but together, for me, it was a great help.
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