Re: Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/30/07 08:08:57 PM |
Age 41, SD |
In my early years I suffered from depression (i.e., insonmia, sadness, anxiety) but by the Grace of God, He revealed to me it was from my unconfessed sins, but it was up to me to be honest with myself to see what they were. When I allowed the Holy Spirit to search my Heart, He revealed the "hidden" sins of my heart so I was able to confess them. We can not confess sins that are hidden to us. Thats where God's mercy and grace come in (not giving us what we deserve). He knows that we are so good at covering up sins with rationalizations, excuses, etc., that in time we forget we have sinned and left them unconfessed! I was tempted to seek medical help, but I turned to the true physician who helped unlayer the thick crust that hid my unconfessed sins. I am not a medical Dr., but I know my depression was from sin, and the only remedy for it was confession from sin causing the depression. That is where this lady was coming from. There are two sides to the the coin here. There needs to be a balance, and the drug pusher people can't see that. I believe in drugs for those who have chemically induced depression, and the Holy Spirit for those who have sin induced depression. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness (if you are a Christian) before going to a Psychologist.
If you are a depressed non-Christian, by all means, do yourself and society a favor and get medical help! Then I pray you seek the Lord! Then you can be on your road to spiritual recovery as well.
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Re: Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/30/07 07:56:50 PM |
Age 41, SD |
Wow!
I was blessed by your response and convicted as well. In my early years I suffered from depression, but by the Grace of God, He revealed to me it was from my unconfessed sins, but it was up to me to be honest with myself to see what they were. When I allowed the Holy Spirit to search my Heart, He revealed the "hidden" sins of my heart so I was able to confess them. We can not confess sins that are hidden to us. Thats where God's mercy and grace come in (not giving us what we deserve). He knows that we are so good at covering up sins with rationalizations, excuses, etc., that in time we forget we have sinned and left them unconfessed! I was tempted to seek medical help, but I turned to the true physitian who helped unlayer the thick crust that hid my unconfessed sins. I am not a medical Dr., but I know my depression was from sin, and the only remedy for it was confession from sin causing the depression. That is where this lady was coming from. There are two sides to the the coin here. There needs to be a balance, and the drug pusher people can't see that. I believe in drugs for those who have chemically induced depression, and the Holy Spirit for those who have sin induced depression. Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness (if you are a Christian) before going to a Psychosis Dr.
If you are a crazy non-Christian, by all means, do yourself and society a favor and get medical help! Then I pray you seek the Lord! Then you can be on your road to spiritual recovery as well.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/30/07 10:28:15 AM |
Age 51, FL |
Thank you doctor for a voice of reason. I don't think anyone can judge a person, Christian or not, for being on medication. The choice of medication is between that person and their doctor. God is the giver of all good things...science and medicine being some of those "good things". Until you have "walked in the shoes" of the person suffering from depression don't be so quick to pass judgement. To me it is just arrogance and ignorance that makes people say such things. I have been on medication in the past but have been off it for over five years. Believe me when I say that I function better as a wife, mother and employee when I am on the medication. If you don't believe me ask my family.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/30/07 06:54:01 AM |
Age 50, SC |
I agree with the physician. This article is dangerous! Thank the Lord that we have medicine that can help people overcome their depression.
Articles like this contribute to the deaths of innocent children, like in the case of Andrea Yates. She needed to be on anti-depressants...or Susan Smith.
I have a friend who won't take anti-depressants either. She thinks it is a "spiritual" issue. Meanwhile, she suffers and so does her family.
You should remove this article and have the physician who posted the first response write an article.
I don't even know whether I want to read Christian Worldview now. The fact that you thought this article was worth publishing makes me wonder about the organization.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/30/07 02:28:37 AM |
Age 43, AL |
SO sorry, i REALLY disagree with you. Modern medicine is good for life threating emergencies(car wrecks,etc) and MAYBE for SOME cancers BUT we have FAR to many people on way,way to many drugs even the ones for high blood pressure, heart etc. IF more people were aware of the homeopathic remedies for these ailments we would see a dramatic decrease in the price of Rx medication because they certaintly would not be used as much. But you see we don't believe in these remedies(because the FDA has pulled the wool over most peoples eyes) anymore because they're not FDA approved. And I am a firm believer in " I can do all things thru Christ which strength me". If I will take care of my body to VERY BEST of my ability then I truly believe GOD will take care of me. But what do I know Doc I'm just a nurse and a BIBLE believing christian and I must certaintly be as CRAZY as the lady who wrote the article on the antidepressants.
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Re: Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/30/07 12:02:08 AM |
Age 55, NM |
Yes, I do have access to some amazing, spirit filled resources. Let me say this; God's promises don't start in the new testament. Jesus the Christ did NOT come and start a whole new system of things. He came to clarify and personify the GOD who does not change. The ONE who was crucified from before the foundation of the world. He set up a system of rules and regulations for His creation from the beginning. He stated plainly in HIS WORD, speaking to man, do what I command and life will be heavenly, but if you reject my word, life will be hell on earth. (my paraphrase) I said all that to make this point: one of the commandments mentioned over and over is JOY!! Joy in ME. Delight yourself in ME. But even apart from that, how can a believer be depressed? What does he believe in? This false pretense that has been accepted in the modern 'christian' organization as 'believe and receive eternal life', in the Word of God was DO, and FOLLOW and LIVE THE SAME WAY. AS THE CHRIST. It would take you quite a long while to read all references to the blessing bestowed on a person for keeping the commandments of GOD. And it is not like God has to monitor every persons actions to fulfill these words. God's laws are just other natural laws like gravity, that humans have not accepted. We sin, negative things happen as a result. We do good, positive things happen. What we call God's law, the Torah, is more correctly called 'instruction', and it comes from a loving father. We cannot neglect these 'natural' laws and expect life to be peachy dandy. I am not sure if I should post what I called some of the amazing resources here, but you can email me for any and all help I can give. Lonnie at
ajo1@zianet.com
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 09:41:37 PM |
Age 49, FL |
Thank you a sensible, professional point of view. I'm not a physician, but my wife of 25 years was diagnosed Bi-polar @ age 18. I've seen her get manic three times during our marriage, and it's impossible to relate what it's like to those who don't have it themselves or live with someone who does. My wife is one of the most loving, dedicated believers I've ever known. Her struggle with this illness has absolutely nothing to do with sin.
I urge those reading this article not to confuse an illness (or depression) with sin in that the two are always linked. They may well be in some cases. But what I'm concerned with here is the cruelty of Christians beating up themselves unnecessarily, when they have a legitimate illness or condition and think it's just the sin in their lives. And, the possibility of an ailing believer not taking their medication. This whole thing could lead to tragic consequences.
One last comment = I will defend the article to this extent: Pastors are not doctors, and that woman's paster was terribly wrong to suggest any form of medical treatment. Come on folks, let's use some common sense.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 09:38:33 PM |
Age 59, AR |
I sincerely hope these women who were diaganosed with
Bi-polar disorder stay rational after they are off their meds for a while. Begore I was diaganosed and treated I believed every thing I did was a sin when I was in a depressive state and nothing was when I was in the manic state. Thank God for doctors who finally diagnosed correctly, took the time to find the right medicine that worked for me. I now am active in the church. I do know when I have sinned and am dreadfully sorry and repentant. I no longer believe I can conquer the world or think getting a haircut is a sin. I am at last balanced and I praise a wonderful God who helped people to make the medicines that have made me normal.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 07:48:30 PM |
Age 46, MO |
Friend:
I don't think this letter is advocating removal of all medication or downplaying the need for medication for illness. However, in our world today where obesity, pornography, alcoholism, and drug addiction are "illnesses" of choice, the desire to medicate is the first thing prescribed. As any athlete will tell you, grow is in the pain. Yet our society seeks to elliminate consequence of sin and selfish goals are never abated in our quest for instant gratification. Thus we medicate the children of divorced parents who act out, prescribe antidepressents for the parents, and pretend that God will not hold us accountable for our actions. Good article Jim, thanks. (sorry for the typo's, I am writing this on the road.)
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 07:22:19 PM |
Age 54, MN |
Please please do not stop taking your medication immediately. Hear me out! I was on antidepressants for 20 years, plus anti-anxiety meds. To stop taking the medication immediately results in much deeper level of depression, anxiety, bi-polar symptoms more than ever! If you truly want to be off of them, consult with your physician and do it EXTREMELY slowly. I cannot emphasize that enough! After hearing a testimony of a physician, Dr. Ann Blake Tracy from the Int'l Coalition for Drug Awareness, who herself testifies on behalf of victims of violent offenses caused from psychotropic meds (anti-depressants/anxiety, etc), I realized that the meds were doing me more harm than good. However, at the same time, the Lord brought me to a point of repentance of bitterness and anger, etc., after hearing a sermon by John MacArthur on the radio. I had been told my "dysfunctional" feelings were a "victim's natural response" to something done against me. I repented of my attitude and grudge and for days (while still on my medication) felt such freedom that I couldn't stop crying from utter joy as a result of that repentance. God CAN and does still break through any medication's effects if He so chooses. Now... if you want to try getting off of it, do it SLOWLY, and I mean VERY, VERY SLOWLY, and under the care of a physician. The Lord will understand your desires. To jump off of them with the idea that you'll "trust God or the Holy Spirit" is really foolish (you're not a fool, but you would be making a dangerous, foolish choice). Dr. Tracy strongly advises not to do it on your own nor quickly. Personally speaking, I found that the medication only exacerbated my anger and other negative feelings. I have been very successful with being weaned off and am not opposed to perhaps taking very low doses if those symptoms "strongly" return where they would incapacitate me. I have found that regular, daily, repentance of my attitudes, behaviors, etc., has been as good of medication as anything -- actually more so. BUT, if there is a severe chemical imbalance you need to either find alternative methods of treatment or remain on your meds until you clearly know if the Lord has healed you, and if He heals you, you still need to wean off of them extremely slowly. There is nothing wrong in trusting the Lord and His Spirit to walk you through the weaning process. In fact, He will honor it. I know so, He did so with me. If you don't listen to me, listen to her. To read more about what I'm referring to, visit this website:
http://www.drugawareness.org/home.html. It is the Int'l Coalition for Drug Awareness.
God Bless and Take care,
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 05:43:15 PM |
Age 21, AR |
Here are a few articles I stumbled across some time ago about this subject:
Be Sober
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThoughtstoPonder/message/75
Be Sober: Part II
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThoughtstoPonder/message/76
Be Sober: Part III
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ThoughtstoPonder/message/77
Three great articles for further reading to anyone who is interested.
in love,
>>zack
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 04:58:14 PM |
Age 59, MO |
I appreciate your concern. However, I don't think you read the article carefully enough. In at least two places the author states that meds are sometimes necessary, especially in the initial stages of irrational anxiety. Also, she says that it helped her get out of the basement. She is also coming off of them slowly, under a physician's care. Please read carefully before making a diagnosis. Your response gives the impression that meds should be given for almost any sign of depression, and that meds should be used long term by most people regardless of the root causes. Surely you don't mean to say that.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 04:43:20 PM |
Age 59, MO |
Dear friend, I urge you to talk with your physician first before withdrawing "cold turkey" from any medication. Also, get solid biblical counsel before making this decision and work at this slowly. God will help you know what is best. You may consider finding a biblical counselor in your area (visit the NANC website for one good source of help). The woman in the article is not even completely weaned off of anti depressants, though she is nearly there. And remember that in some cases such meds are necessary. Here is a paragraph from the article to remember: "I am not saying that it is never appropriate for a woman to use prescribed medication to fight depression, especially if it has a physiological cause and has so skewed the person’s thinking that she has become irrational.[1] Recognizing and confessing sin does require rational thought, and it is difficult to hold a woman accountable who is incapable of thinking through what God requires. In some cases, antidepressants or anti-anxiety drugs might help a person get to a place where she can think rationally. At this point, a qualified nouthetic counselor or pastor can begin to lead the individual to see how her own sin has brought her to the state she is in[2]. By the grace of God, she will repent, turn from her sin, and recover from her depression, alleviating the need for the drugs."
God bless you as you find your help in Him. There is real hope in the Lord.
I am writing to caution against a stall in this process.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 04:27:23 PM |
Age 52, ID |
This doctor is so right. What is seriously missing in this woman's account is her sin of business. Her life is overwhelming. God said through the Psalmist; Cease STRIVING and know that I am God. God made our bodies with limited capabilities.
I often see this in others at my church. I have learned how to put it in perspective. These people are carrying a plate that is too full and spilling over. They need to do a couple of things. First, Dump most of the things off their plate. Then, seek God's direction about what He wants them to be busy doing. Then, GET A SMALLER PLATE based on God's will. We are never told we can have to do it all. This woman had a duty to her family. Her duty to her church was a distance second to her family. Only when she has met all of the needs of her family, both immediate and extended, should she take on the any of the needs of her church. Her pastor is a classic slave driving pastor. He probably is a dictator with many who just follow in the name of "growing the church." He knows that to keep the slaves working, he may need to drug them. First there is coffee and sweets in the lobby. If that is not enough, send them to the doctor for drugs. Tell them to not worry about the family issues, trust God to take care of them. The pastor directed her into an apathy affair. "Don't worry, just keep on working for the church." But, her God given desire to take care of her family would not let her leave her families needs to God. She was correct in this thought, whether it was a conscious thought or just in her sub-conscious mind. This apathy affair was a sin and it caused her to carry even more guilt.
Did this lady need anti-depressants? Probably yes. She needed to get so she could rationally consider what was happening to her. But, then she needed a major remodel of her life with a careful wean from the drugs as soon as possible. Instead, she got that silly grin and went on self-destructing.
I have seen pastors destroy people with guilt ridden over-worked lives. These pastors will be held accountable someday.
Anti-depressants can be the lifeline to changing ones life for the better. The body needs to physiologically heal from the over-use and abuse. Some may need the drugs for long term. I will most likely be a lifer because the drugs are needed to reduce some of the symptoms of a unrecoverable brain injury. Some emotional problems are shown to leave physiological changes and damage. Think of towing a trailer up a long grade and overheating your transmission, causing parts to gets damaged from the heat. On the downhill, it cools off and everything may seem fine, but at the next hill the transmission has to perform again even though it was physically damaged on the previous hill.
I am not denying God ability to heal. But we are not talking about Mary Baker Eddy Christian Scientist theology here. Our spirituality alone will not heal our physical bodies.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 03:05:26 PM |
Age 65, FL |
Thank you doctor for your feedback on this dangerous article. I found a Christian doctor(like yourself) and I thank God. He explained that my depression was biological not spiritual. He knows me personally as we go to the same church. My doctor does not prescribe antidepressants to just anyone. He is very careful.
Another part of my depression is from the pain I suffer from a chronic illness. I was prescribed oxycodone and I take it exactly as prescribed. I've never "upped' the medication and the oxycodone stops my bodily pain and as a "happy accident" we found it helps control my IBS. Thanks to my wonderful, Christian doctors I am able to do my volunteer work, helping others and participate in gatherings of family and friends, even travel again. So lets let the medical profession handle our physical problems (with the help of God) and our church brethren help us with spiritual matters.
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 02:47:05 PM |
Age 61, NY |
Thank you so much for this article. I too was 'urged' to take an antidepressant because I was 'crying' all the time after my divorce and loss of my home, friends, and job. I had to relocate, etc., etc. It was 2 yrs later that I found myself in the 'numb' spot wherein I didn't want to do anything at all and I was MORE depressed, so I decided to get off the medication. I am happy to say that this article does reflect my feelings and thoughts on 'unconfessed' sin and 'lack of repentence' as one reason for feelings of 'depression and hopelessness and being in a trap'; however, I must also say that in the beginning the medication did help me to sleep and become less 'emotional'; however, in the end, WE all MUST take responsibility for our own responses to life and our relationship with Jesus. This was a good article and a confirmation for me of my decision to get off these drugs at the time that I did and for the reason that I did. These 'drugs' can help, but they also can 'hurt' if we allow ourselves to become dependent on them instead of God; in most cases, they are only a temporary fix. Thank you again. donna, NY
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 02:42:48 PM |
Age 50, GA |
I get the impression that some of the people responding to this article are not fully reading it. I think it’s a matter of balance.
The author did not say that people should never take antidepressants. Rather she shared a personal story about how drugs affected her thinking and ability to feel. She feels it hindered her relationship with God as a result.
Rather than causing us to be defensive, it should give us something to consider. I knew most drugs have physical side effects, but had not considered any emotional or spiritual ones until reading this article.
Personally I have suffered from severe depression at various times throughout my life. There were various causes: physical (anemia or some other illness), fatigue, hormonal, circumstantial and spiritual. At times I have been tempted to seek a medicinal remedy, but other than increasing iron to my diet I overcame my depression in other ways.
Some of the ways I overcame depression are: prayer, praise, reading of God’s Word, sleep, proper diet, exercise, confession, talking with a friend, and taking a walk (especially on a sunny day). Like the author, I am merely sharing my own experience and not saying everyone else should do likewise.
I am surprised that this is as controversial a subject as it is. There are two extremes: take no medication at all no matter what or take drugs at the drop of a hat. I don’t think anyone is advocating either extreme.
I think the author would agree that each person has to decide for himself (hopefully seeking God’s guidance) what is best. But at least for me, this article made me stop and think. If I ever do consider taking an anti-depressant, I will remember her story and will pray much before agreeing to take any drug. I’m not saying I will never take an anti-depressant. Only God knows if I will or won’t. But I will be more cautious than perhaps I would have been, considering possible costs, and not for one second do I think that is a bad thing! In fact, I think it’s a very good one.
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Re: Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 02:07:36 PM |
Age 58, VA |
BOY, OH, BOY! SO your 29 years on the planet and perhaps, (what is it ?) 10 years of medical school, gives you the right to say the FDA Approved, American Medical Association way- etc- is the only route to take! Live a little longer and perhaps you will change your tune. So what is wrong with queen bee Jelly or homeopathy? Lots of people are helped by them. There are many over the counter homeopathic remedies available, just like many use Glucosamine/ Condroitin for arthritis. Are you opposed to Chiropractic Medicine also? No one is telling anyone not to have a blood transfusion. No one is telling anyone to handle snakes. And a Christian can have more wisdom at times than any professional doctor! There is an old familiar saying , “a Doctor is not God!” And no one here is playing Holy Spirit and telling anyone not to go to a Doctor or to get off their meds or that they have sin in their own life. But there are certainly those who have been to Doctors, taken their prescribed medical treatments and decided to get off of them and done so quite successfully. I would never tell someone to quit taking their medicine, but there are plenty of people who feel the Lord is telling them to get off of it and have been successful in doing so. So, ( I am just trying to lighten things up a bit when I say this) put that in a peace pipe and smoke it! (ps The word of God, tht means God, The Holy Spirit, Jesus instructed us in Mark 16: 18-20, known as the Great Commission, To go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation....And these signs will accompany those who have believed: in my name they will cast out demons....." Did you tear that page out of your bible? I think the Word is a higher authority than my Doctor! There is a time and a place for everything!
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 01:32:38 PM |
Age 30, WA |
By looking at how many responses there have been to this article it is obvious that a tremendous amount of people have dealt with this or know people that have. I am surprised that not many people are aware of food causes of depression and anxiety - sugar, artificial flavors & colors and other additives to food. And yes, age 29, MD, there are homeopathic remedies for depression and anxiety that have worked for many people including me. St. John's Wart and Fish Oil along with eating the proper foods has cured my depression. The American diet is extremely deficient in vitamins and minerals. Unless you grow and raise your own food, you have to supplement. There are good supplements out there that the body easily absorbs and have proven to be helpful (even though the infamous FDA has claimed otherwise). Everyone is different - we have different causes and therefore different remedies. Another key point is solving the issue causing the depression or anxiety. Why are we trying to make ourselves into superheroes by ingesting chemicals in order to keep our sanity? Our daily lives are getting too hectic and people need to relook at their priorities. We need to relook at what is really important in our lives. Too many people are running after the dollar and literally killing themselves and their families with stress and chemical pills! It's ridiculous! Slow down, eat right, buy some supplements to add to your daily meals, and cut out the things in your schedule that really aren't necessary. Don't buy the brand new car that will put you in debt up to your eyeballs. LIVE WITHIN YOUR MEANS AND DON'T OVER DO IT! Don't get me wrong, I know there are serious cases where someone needs to be medicated. But physicians are down-right prescription happy!!! The drug companies are brainwashing them and trying to turn us into chemically dependent human beings! Just watch TV and look at how many ads there are for this pill and that pill. It seems like there's a new pill every week! Have you ever heard of restless leg syndrom? I haven't, but there is a pill for that too!!! Ok I'll get off my soap box.
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Re: Anti-depressants and Spiritual Conviction
| Posted On: 06/29/07 01:28:52 PM |
Age 55, CA |
After reading this article on anti-depression drugs, it tells me that a lot of believers out there don't understand depression very much. Depression is not something that people choose, just like they don't choose cancer. But, the people of the church seem to have their heads in the sand on this issue. Yes, some people abuse the medications, but most people who these medications are described to don't want the disease anymore than they want cancer.
With regard to sins, confession is the very best way to retain a close walk with Jesus, but don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Depression is just like any other disease and needs to be treated; whether in a small group or under a doctors care.
There is a good book out there called "Why Do Christians Shoot Their Wounded" that may shed light on these kinds of illness.
Remember that Jesus came to heal us and that means both spiritually and many times physically.
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