You have only proven Erwin's point
| Posted On: 08/10/09 02:11:48 PM |
Age 53, IN |
You have only proven Erwin's point. The Calvinist cult has set itself up as The Truth and does come off to those around them as arrogant. Oh that one day we might be honest enough with ourselves to admit that none of have a corner on the truth. If Jesus were here in the flesh, what harsh words He would have for the Pharisees of our day.
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God loves the world
| Posted On: 01/23/08 11:40:35 PM |
Age 53, CANADA |
John 3v16 [Amplified Bible] For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([a]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
This verse contradicts your contention. I believe the Father loves us dearly what he hates is SIN. His wrath is focused against SIN and not mankind.
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Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 11/29/07 10:03:20 AM |
Age 27, TX |
Ron, I am confused about your rage against Erwin's message. I am personally very wary of many in the Emerging Church movement, as it is called. I believe that, by and large, the EC started strong but went too far. McManus, however, is not one of those based on my limited knowledge of him. I have heard the sermon you are critiquing. I have heard many others like it. I have not once heard Erwin McManus renounce God's sovereignty. In fact, it is his driving backdrop against the "cosmic drama" that we are key players in. As far as Calvinism is concerned and election, perhaps a full Biblical view would be helpful for us to consider why missions are so important: "God our Savior, who desires that ALL men be saved..." (1 Timothy 2.3-4 ) But all men are not saved, so either God can't impose His will or is unwilling to impose it, giving instead the power of choice to all humankind, thus emphasizing the need for missions, and thus were some of Jesus' last words prior to his ascension.
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Re: Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 06/22/07 01:03:25 AM |
Age 36, CA |
Dear brother or sister,
Thank you for your feedback. I need to clarify some things. There are some truly godly people at Mosaic who love the Lord and are very biblical in their theology. I still have friends that are members of Mosaic with whom I pray, and one in China with whom I am corresponding with as we speak. I love my friends, my brothers and sisters at Mosaic. Also, I know of small groups at Mosaic that are deeply biblical. My wife was a part of one until recently, even though we officially left Mosaic in 2005. So your experience might be profoundly biblical IN SPITE of what is being preached from the pulpit and written in the books. And also, as you move into leadership, if that is your intent, I challenge you to ask constantly if what you are being taught is God-centered or man-centered. Does it make much of God or much or much of you? Or, to put it plainly, does it make much of man at the expense of God's glory? You might be surprised as you rise in leadership to find that there is very little reference to God except in how He values US and desires to make much of US. But God-exalting, white hot passion for His glory (please read some Jonathan Edwards and John Piper) - well, you're not going to find that much of. If you do, it will be the exception, not the rule.
God bless you, my friend. I don't even know you but pray that God give you discernment in these matters.
I do recommend two resources that I pray you will consider:
1. John Piper's book "God is the Gospel" available for free download at this link: http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/OnlineBooks/ByTitle/
2. Piper's audio sermon entitled "The Reason for Our Creation" at this link: http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByDate/2164_The_Reason_for_Our_Creation/
In Christ alone,
Love,
Ron Foster
June 21, 2007
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Re: Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 06/21/07 11:35:41 AM |
Age 36, CA |
Dear brother or sister,
Thank you for your feedback. I need to clarify some things. There are some truly godly people at Mosaic who love the Lord and are very biblical in their theology. I still have friends that are members of Mosaic with whom I pray, and one in China with whom I am corresponding with as we speak. I love my friends, my brothers and sisters at Mosaic. Also, I know of small groups at Mosaic that are deeply biblical. My wife was a part of one until recently, even though we officially left Mosaic in 2005. So your experience might be profoundly biblical IN SPITE of what is being preached from the pulpit and written in the books. And also, as you move into leadership, if that is your intent, I challenge you to ask constantly if what you are being taught is God-centered or man-centered. Does it make much of God or much or much of you? Or, to put it plainly, does it make much of man at the expense of God's glory? You might be surprised as you rise in leadership to find that there is very little reference to God except in how He values US and desires to make much of US. But God-exalting, white hot passion for His glory (please read some Jonathan Edwards and John Piper) - well, you're not going to find that much of. If you do, it will be the exception, not the rule.
God bless you, my friend. I don't even know you but pray that God give you discernment in these matters.
I do recommend two resources that I pray you will consider:
1. John Piper's book "God is the Gospel" available for free download at this link: http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/OnlineBooks/ByTitle/
2. Piper's audio sermon entitled "The Reason for Our Creation" at this link: http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByDate/2164_The_Reason_for_Our_Creation/
In Christ alone,
Love,
Ron Foster
June 21, 2007
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Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 06/18/07 12:54:29 PM |
Age 25, CA |
I find your article lacking sufficient research and understanding of Erwin's theology. To say that we cannot change what the future looks like is somewhat unbiblical. I recently help lead my brother to Christ. Since then 6 of his friends have received Christ and are in small groups at Mosaic (going through the book of Ephesians and being "fed"). I feel like I just changed the future for these 7 people with the Spirit of God working through me. I have also never experienced anything that would suggest that "relevance is King at Mosaic, so anything relevant goes". In fact, I have experienced the opposite. I don't know your situation, but it might be that you have been gone for so long, that you are a bit out of touch with where Mosaic is at today.
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Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 06/14/07 09:32:24 PM |
Age 44, NJ |
"We cannot know, as I said earlier, whether anyone is finally reprobate based on his or her present condition. We are called to proclaim the gospel as God’s established means by which He calls His elect and hardens the reprobate, and we are not privy to God’s secret counsel that knows the difference."
So with just this staement I can conclude that you do not believe Jesus when He said we CAN know them by their fruits?
My friend, we ARE to Judge with righteous Judgement. If you cannot even judge man now how will you ever know to judge the Angels?
And don't use that old false interpretation of when Jesus to not judge as being the excuse to justify "no one can know" when very shortly after Jesus did indeed say to judge, demonstrating that by Judging.
Calvins idea of election is a matter of the perspective of God due to His being outsid eof the restrictions of Time. OUR perspective is that of a choosing as we are within the restrictions of Time. And both of these are right - not mutually exclusive as Calvin devotees are wont to believe.
You CAN know who is Lost, by their works, their words, their action. IN other words, their fruits... If you cannot see this evidence in another then you certainly would not be able to judge yourself.
The LAW of God is not subject to our interpretation but is merciless on us all, showing every fault clearly. The Law makes us ALL REPROBATE unless we surrendur to the Lordship of Jesus and trust in His sacrifice for us. And you will know who is who by...
...their works...
But the Law is not diminished in any way by any false conversions... it is still as clear as it has always been, will always be. And by it we judge ourselves and another simply, easily, and honestly. There is no grey area to hide in...
Patrick Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
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Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 06/13/07 05:04:19 AM |
Age 52, FL |
I do not believe that only a select number are chosen for salvation. That contradicts scriptures like John 3:16, Rev. 22:17 and many others. And you cannot make those scriptures mean anything other than what they say. I have read Romans through and through. Anyhoo, don't think I want to go there. I do think Pastor McManus has gone just a tad bit too far, focusing it all on man. I believe we need some balance. We should fall on our knees for allowing us even the possibility of redemption thru Jesus and at the same time realizing He DOES love us as John 3:16 says. I mean why DID God create man in the first place. Didn't Adam walk with God in the cool of the day. There was relationship there and I do believe God wants to restore that. That being said, He is also a God greatly to be feared (reverenced). Too many take God's goodness for granted. Good article.
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Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 06/13/07 03:29:21 AM |
Age 58, AUSTRALIA |
As a new christian I thought I was pretty special. I was the elect, I believed I made Gods world better. Years later as I've matured. I know that, there is nothing I have that God needs. It is only through his sovereign grace and mercy, that I belong to him. It is very humbling. I also thought that God would give me the things I desired. I praise Him now that He didn't answer my prayers. He has led me where He wants me to be. No formulas or new things will give us intimacy with God. Obedience, desire to be faithful, and to know Him more, renewing of the mind.I have to die to the flesh daily, and magnify God. We are still on this earth, to glorify God, to keep Him on the throne of our lives. To come to Jesus, then treat Him, as a way to become successful is blasphemy. Why did Paul consider all things rubbish, compared to knowing Christ. Why did they all, except John die as martyrs.
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Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 06/12/07 09:14:41 PM |
Age 51, MN |
This article is an inaccurate summary of McManus's message. Foster draws several unfair and unsubstantiated conclusions. For example, nowhere does McManus claim that biblical doctrine can be dismissed because it is being abused. That's the critic's biased conclusion, not McManus' claim. Nor would McManus ever concede the point.
It is true that McManus says Calvinism is fatalistic--and he states it without qualification. The Calvinism he rejects is not moderate Calvinism as I understand it, which balances both the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man. Nevertheless, McManus has some thoughtful points that we who call ourselves Calvinists would do well to consider. This message doesn't deserve the extreme labels Foster pins on it.
Instead of Foster's article, a better critique of the emergent church can be found at http://www.thedoor.org/about/documents/ResponseContemplativeEmergent.pdf
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Re: Emergent Pastor/Author Erwin McManus Plays Dominoes with God’s Sovereignty
| Posted On: 06/11/07 01:45:29 PM |
Age 60, MO |
Erwin McManus, and there are certainly several others, have stepped in to capitalize on a market comprised of people who have beem improperly exposed to the Christian God and who are seeking the spiritual benefits of that God. We, as a group of peoples, seem to require some kind of heroes who purvey the Scriptures, whether it be Erwin McManus, Rick Warren, John McArthur, John Calvin, Martin Luther, et al. Even in the most prosperous of situations, people sense the falsity of their economic, social, and political environments. They want security, and they are being led to believe by the likes of McManus, that they can have a worldly security. Unfortunately, that is not the eternal security of God in Jesus Christ. McManus erroneously states that God loves mankind. God loves only Jesus Christ and all those who are in Christ. George Cancilla
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