Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/10/07 09:26:31 AM |
Age 46, GA |
It will not end.
It will only get worse. One day, they'll be killing people again.
Get into a small group, meet in your homes, and be very careful who you let join your small group.
The American "church" is now a social club for idiots.
They are blind leaders of the blind. They will all fall into a ditch.
Stay out of the ditch.
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Re: Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/10/07 09:22:58 AM |
Age 46, GA |
Go ahead and throw up. Crying doesn't do any good.
This is why I won't set foot in an "American" "church" anymore.
They are blind leaders of the blind. They will both fall into a ditch.
I fallen in enough ditches for one lifetime.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/10/07 09:22:04 AM |
Age 43, FL |
I have to admit that the whole clown thing seems quite bizarre, but what about Paul's strategy to become "all things to all people"? He identified himself with the people he was trying to reach, even those who were "without the Law". I hope I never find myself dressed as a clown period, but if that's who God told me to reach, I guess I'd have to do it.
You act as though God never told anyone to do anything bizarre to speak to others. Maybe we should all re-visit Nehemiah. That dude was downright weird from a human perspective (lying on one side for almost a year and cooking with feces for fuel?), but everything he did was by God's command.
As far as church being only for Christians, I know exactly what you mean, but I still struggle with why, in the early days, they met daily "in the temple" and "from house to house", and that the Lord added daily to their number. Could it be that they met in a public place to allow unbelievers to join in and come to Christ? Certainly they didn't do everything in the public place (the Temple) that they did in one another's homes because there was a different audience and different purposes.
I know, I know, the clown thing is tough to swallow, but does anyone know if they were actually teaching pure doctrine or not? If not, this could be a matter of our personal experience and taste. If that's the case, be careful how you judge their actions because they may be modern-day Nehemiah's. Remember, many of our great, (great?)grandparents didn't allow men & women to sit together in church of have any accompaniment to their singing and thought anything to the contrary was evil. How foolish co-ed congregational seating and piano-accompanied singing in church must seem to them!
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/10/07 08:04:51 AM |
Age 57, TN |
There is nothing new under the sun. When I see this I am grieved but not overcome, for I know that God sees it too. May we see these clowns and pray for them, for these clowns to come to repentance and become mature in Christ Jesus.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/10/07 08:02:57 AM |
Age 46, MO |
Friends:
The line in the sand is drawn and the sides are forming. The middle ground is diminishing and very soon the middle ground will disapear. It is already apparent who is "holy" or set apart. The question is: "are we condending for the faith" are we "soldiers" of Christ or are we tolerant "loving" Christians who turn the other cheek and a blind eye to sin. Do we follow the 11th and 112th commandments of being all things to all people and thou shalt not judge, or do we consider it all joy to suffer for Christ? Remember, Christ was bold not nice, and faith is not faith at all unless it is cherished with perserverance. John
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/10/07 07:34:00 AM |
Age 35, MI |
Thank you for the article. It looks as though it is just one other way to mock God in the way these "leaders" are behaving. At least they are wearing what is on their hearts on the outside for all to see. So many times the mockery is only on the inside. But, God sees all whether on the inside or the outside.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/10/07 06:59:22 AM |
Age 38, AL |
I'm wondering how the writer surmised that they were doing this for the seekers. Typically the mainline denominations aren't associated with seeker-friendly services but often appeal to the left-leaning, socially-minded set.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 08:59:58 PM |
Age 48, FL |
Yes, that is pretty silly, especially, when they are using to reach adults. Of course I wasn't there, so maybe if I was, it wouldn't look quite as silly.
Yes, church meetings are not there to reach the lost. It's probably the most ineffective way to reach them too, because by its very nature the darkness hates the light and vice-versa. We are told to "Go" and make disciples, not to "Stay" and make ourselves attractive so that unbelievers will come to us.
I don't know if I agree with the comment on the breaking of bread or communion however one refers to it. The purpose is not to examine yourself. That was a specific instruction to a church where people were going to fill themselves up with food. When we break bread the emphasis should be on Christ, not on ourselves and our weaknesses. It's a joyous time to remember God's love and His forgiveness. That's why Christ said to do this in rememberance of Him, not of our sin. Besides that God doesn't remember a believer's their sin. Are we more righteous than God in thinking we can do better??? That's a form of pride. If we are saved than we are the very righteousness of God (II Cor. 5:21) You can't get more righteous. If you live an unfruitful life, it is because you have forgotten that you were cleansed from you sin. Just read the book of Peter. Not my words. It doesn't mean that you should go and moan about your sin. It means that you should focus on Christ and what He did on the cross. That's where the power is. His Grace.
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. keesboer@positive-entertainment.com
Blessings,
Kees
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 08:15:42 PM |
Age 43, TX |
Well spoken Todd! It's time for the foolishness in the church to end!
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 06:07:48 PM |
Age 51, MEXICO |
I totally agree with Todd's view on this unbelievable display of American "church". As a missionary in Mexico, I am just wondering what your idea is about outreaches to unbelievers using secular bands and then preaching the gospel to an audience that might never set foot in a Christian church to hear the Word?
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 04:41:26 PM |
Age 39, MS |
This is very disturbing. I'm struggling with whether to throw up or cry.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 01:41:44 PM |
Age 40, TX |
This is a mockary to Christ, it breaks my heart that people are doing such things, Jesus sufferd and died a awful death for us and God is Holy this is not holy at all.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 12:55:49 PM |
Age 45, AK |
Jer 32:34 But they set their abominations in the house, which is called by my name, to defile it.
Jer 23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.
Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Psa 96:9 O worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
1Th 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
Amen.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 09:43:57 AM |
Age 47, TX |
I agree with Todd. Christians are compromising the Word and its power in hopes of reaching the world for Christ. Perhaps they are well intended, but sincerely wrong. We are to be "wise as serpents" ... so I believe that some innovations are certainly in order ... but nothing should compromise the holiness and sanctity of God's Word and His edicts.
That picture of a clown presenting the sacraments is downright frightening. These men are so desperate to bring in more folks that they are becoming confused between their desperate need for growth and the actual statements in God's Word about being "fools" for Christ. (which basically means being willing to give all for His purposes)
For these church leaders, fasting and prayer would do the trick ... and lots of it. With that kind of devotion, God CAN give innovative ideas ... and He will also give ones that do not make a mockery of His Word and His sacraments. Miracles come out of consistent prayer.
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 09:28:46 AM |
Age 61, WA |
Personally, I've never seen or heard of anything so ridiculous in my life. It just proves how far the church has fallen in it's attempt to conform to the world and it's ways. I really wouldn't want to be in their shoes when they face our Lord. These folks need our prayers and we desperately need to ask God to "forgive them for they know not what they do."
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 07:50:57 AM |
Age 57, FL |
While I do not particularly agree with pastors acting like clowns, at least these guys admit it. There are all too many "clowns" who can't see beyond their fancy hairstyles and rolex watches to be able to discern who the real clowns are.
There are a lot of things I don't agree with in the church. A lot of those have to do with my personal likes and dislikes, others with the particular way I was raised, and still others with how I perceive they line up with Scriptures.
The bottom line, however, is fruit. Are the "just" entertaining? Or are people really coming to the Lord. I guess as I get closer to "being face to face" with the Lord, as with Billy Graham, I am becoming somewhat more "tolerant" of methods and more focused on more "eternal" concerns.
vp
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 07:50:40 AM |
Age 57, FL |
While I do not particularly agree with pastors acting like clowns, at least these guys admit it. There are all too many "clowns" who can't see beyond their fancy hairstyles and rolex watches to be able to discern who the real clowns are.
There are a lot of things I don't agree with in the church. A lot of those have to do with my personal likes and dislikes, others with the particular way I was raised, and still others with how I perceive they line up with Scriptures.
The bottom line, however, is fruit. Are the "just" entertaining? Or are people really coming to the Lord. I guess as I get closer to "being face to face" with the Lord, as with Billy Graham, I am becoming somewhat more "tolerant" of methods and more focused on more "eternal" concerns.
vp
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Re: The Church Has Become a Circus... Literally.
| Posted On: 05/09/07 04:57:54 AM |
Age 60, TN |
I agree with the writer. The church has become a "joke" to the lost. People living like the devil and at the same instance, they claim to know God. I believe that church folk should be the happiest people on earth, but WE should also be the most sober in our actions because we fully understand the awful destination of the lost.
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