Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 09:58:28 PM |
Age 40, NC |
"...by all means some may be saved."
There is a place for churches to hold fun community events. While the gospel may yet be shared, the event may not be evangelistic in nature. However, it should be evangelical in nature in that it helps the church develop a relationship with the community where the gospel can be shared poignantly with individuals by individuals. Building relationships is important. Sharing the gospel up front is also important. The two activities are not mutually exclusive and to suggest that they are is to argue a false dichotomy.
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Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 09:23:01 PM |
Age 35, IN |
Aside from the fact that i haven't just completed a 90 week Acts study, you took the words right out of my mouth. In Scripture, people weren't invited "to church" because the church was the BELIEVERS themselves. It was only after people became believers that they became part of the church.
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Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 09:12:27 PM |
Age 51, OH |
Don't forget to give them the website they will have to go to in order to hear Hell's Best Kept Secret: www.livingwaters.com
Amen and Amen!
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 08:47:55 PM |
Age 51, OH |
It is refreshing to learn that someone is seeing the pitiful condition of today's church. The church teaches that you have to practically sneak up on someone to share the gospel - you have to build a "friendship" with someone BEFORE you can speak of Christ. I have been learning from the Way of the Master (Ray Comfort/KirkCameron) and have found it totally exhirating to share my faith with complete strangers!
It has been a sad commentary on the church to see the lack of interest in seeking to reach out to the lost. Everyone has time for everything else BUT! It saddens me to hear the pastor say "with every head bowed and every eye closed, will someone who is wanting to give their hear to Jesus raise your hand" as if it is something to hide or maybe even be ashamed of! Jesus died on the cross in public for our sins - what happened to the idea that a person walked forward to accept Christ?! Praise God for men and women who still speak the truth of the gospel - straight out - for anyone to hear. That's the way Jesus did it - and that's the way of the Master - follow Him all the way!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 08:43:35 PM |
Age 45, NC |
I agree with the author, but after reading some of the posts, I also see the other point of view that God can use anything to plant seeds and convict people. I was drawn to the Lord through seeds planted during my Catholic upbringing as a child and through a TV evangelist as an adult! Even though there were weeds, there were genuine seeds too. Thank God I have matured and learned real truth in some sound bible teaching churches. I have also studied a lot on my own. Sadly I have had to sift through a lot of misleading doctrine and attend some churches with questionable teachings which I realized only some time afterward. Churches are really missing the command which says to make disciples. With the style of most church services now, the discipling is minimized and recruiting is maximized. The American church does not seem to be for the body of Christ, but for those who want to belong to a community center. My head hurts every Sunday after looking at our bulletin which is filled with advertisements for the next 10 church functions. The problem comes in when everyone is expected to participate in and support these activities. It can get so overwhelmingly busy, that people burn out and then don't have time for their own families or building relationships with those outside the church who may need the gospel-- or even for supporting missions. But, I do say God bless those who can keep up with it. Everyone certainly has their own gifts and talents as the Holy Spirit has seen fit (although I don't recall drama being one of those gifts). I truly appreciate participating in the observance of the Jewish feasts because of the relevance to scripture and to Christ the Messiah. I have become very weary of the Christmas and Easter activities which originated in paganism but now have been Christianized. Didn't God say something in the Old Testament that we should not mix seed and things that are unlike each other?
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 07:35:40 PM |
Age 52, MI |
I think it is great that someone else is preaching the need to 'not just invite' people to church but to make sure a person knows what it is to be saved and how to find Jesus 'before' they get to the church they are invited to. Ray Baumann is not saying not to invite people to church but rather he is saying to stop 'ONLY' inviting them, Tell them about Jesus and How to get Saved right then and there. As a farmer is a seed planter so are Christians; but a farmer is also a reaper and so are Christians when we are led by the Spirit of God to a soul which is ripe for the harvesting. Oh What Great Joy there is in Heaven when a lost soul is brought into the sheepfold of God by a faithful servant. Go out seed planting but as Ray Baumann has said, stop only inviting people to your church, make sure they know right then and there on the spot (if they will let you) how to find and accept Christ Jesus as their Lord, Savior and King. Who knows, they might just be called into eternity by an accident before they get the chance to follow up on your invitation. If that does happen, you will have led that soul to Christ Jesus because of the time you took to explain Salvation to them instead of making them wait to get to your church. Heaven will be Jumping for Joy as that once lost soul enters and you will have another Jewel in your Crown which you will someday receive when we finally meet our Savior Face to Face. Rev. S.R. Elwood, TheMasterspoet
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Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 06:56:36 PM |
Age 36, CA |
56 in MN, my stomach hurt, literally, after reading each of your comments. I cannot, in my wildest dreams imagine Jesus using sarcasm and telling someone to go to Wal Mart and get a life. When I read the comments on here that are so heavy with pride and sarcasm, the truth that may or may not be spoken is lost. Do you really think this is what God requires of you?
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 06:52:19 PM |
Age 42, AL |
Right On! Yes, the church is for equipping believers, including those who already believes in their heart, but need more input.
Evangelism is giving people a thirst for God through our lives, it is not merely sharing a message without a life. People will look at our life and compare with our message. So focus on your walk in LOVE.
Anyway, with the last days, any churches that continues to have a church building is an anti-Christ church. Whether you like this truth or not, it is the TRUTH - written in the BIBLE!
So let the Church become the Body of Christ spread throughout the world as Light and Salt, instead of useless institutions that rediect all mission money into dead building and facilities. The worse is causing a few to do God's work while the rest are entertained.
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Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 06:16:53 PM |
Age 23, CANADA |
Hey friend!
Hermeneutically speaking we would have to allow the rest of scripture, not only the Gospel of John, to define what "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ" means. The unfortunate thing about many people that read the Bible and isolate scripture such as this is that they end up creating a structure of theology, doctrine and a gospel that is void of the issue of true repentance. To simply believe that Jesus is real only brings us up to the level of a demon who believes and trembles, unlike many people that have never known the fear of God but profess to "believe" in Jesus. And Im sure you would agree that we need to be careful in our Biblical studies, and that when it comes to something so foundational as the gospel that we do not play around or get lazy by seeing one verse and basing our proclamation on it. Take care!
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Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 06:06:48 PM |
Age 23, CANADA |
Hey friend! Totally agree that we should be witnessing wherever we can. In fact the local churches that we attend are probably great places to share our faith cuz many are lost within our church buildings. I was looking at your questions and I think I can let you rest assured that the writer wasn't saying "don't share your faith at a drama production at church", or something like that, he was simply saying that we should never substitute these things as our evangelistic outreach. I can't tell you how many people I have spoken to that go to churches and they cannot tell me the gospel, which is a very frightening thing, so naturally the only thing they seem able to do is invite someone to church and let the pastor do it, cuz hes the "pro". Sadly many pastors do not preach the gospel rightly. As for the whole "1 more stanza" thing I don't see that in the article, nor anything about anyone being egotistical. His main point seems to be the unbiblical nature of todays modern "evangelism". If you haven't heard it, try listening to the sermon called "Hells Best Kept Secret" by Ray Comfort, it helps in understanding much of this. Take care!
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 05:19:08 PM |
Age 56, MN |
PREACH IT BROTHER!
ITS about time someone stands up against the FARCE out there today in LA LA LAND Of the SO CALLED CHRISTIANS! GRRRRRRRRR
THis love them into HELL business, and the watered down way of wittnessing is enough to make ME throw up, no wonder JESUS said he would SPEW them out of his mouth.
EACH time I get told IM doing my wittnessing wrong I WANT TO UPCHUCK.
WHY do they think that way, this LOVE them INTO HELL GOSPEL being SPEWED today ISH!
Im so tired of it.
I have no problem dealing with the UNSAVED< ITS the SO CALLED SAVED that DRIVE me up the wall, and again I can SEE why the LORD says they make HIM sick to his STOMACHE.
SICKENING beyond belief!
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Re: Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 05:13:42 PM |
Age 51, MN |
I'm glad that your church does follow up on the names on the cards after the church musical. Our church has people fill out the cards after the musical, takes a count to see how sucessful it was, and then throws the cards away. They wouldn't want to take away someone from their own church! I wonder why they even bother with the cards.
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Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 05:04:58 PM |
Age 56, MN |
to the author of take the PLANK out of YOUR OWN EYES.
YOU need to go and buy yourself a LIFE, WALMART is selling them cheap, with that LIFE comes a brain.
WAKE UP! RAY was 155% correct in his article.
ITS people ASLEEP at the WHEEL like you that cant see that. PRAY FOR DISCERNMENT.
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Re: Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 05:01:41 PM |
Age 56, MN |
to the writer of GOD does the chosing for salvation here is RASBERRIES to you.
GOD doesnt do the chosing for salvation, WE DO.
we make the choice if we want to live with him or the devil.
ANYONE know knows the character of GOD knows better than to say GOD CHOOSES who will be saved.THAT Is bologna.
Christ died on the cross to give all men a CHANCE to be saved.
NOW if they want to take that CHANCE and chose to be saved they will.
STOP THE TWISTING OF GODS WORDS. UGH GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 04:24:41 PM |
Age 59, IL |
Ray, I agree with your sense of urgency... but I hope you're not suggesting that we literally quit inviting people to church. How could you ever know... if a pastor or someone else at your church will be the one who God uses to touch someone's heart? You don't. My point is, we do everything that we can to help a person cross the line of faith. And we don't stop doing something, just because some church may have done it badly. Evangelizing AND inviting someone to church should never be mutually exclusive. Not if you really care for the lost. In Him, scott.
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 04:18:18 PM |
Age 52, AL |
Ok guys. First of all we are called to share the Gospel. We're seed planters not harvesters. Did Jesus hold back feeding the 5K because he thought some would follow only because they were being fed? No. Did he question the motive of the disabled man healed because some friends let him down through the roof? No. Did Christ offend the woman at the well because she was ignorant of the truth? No. Meeting peoples needs and sharing the Gospel with those same folks is not a cop-out!
Our church had a living Christmas tree last year, at which over 5K people attended. There's no room for an invitation at the altar therefore, we did a card and planted a staff minister at each exit to retrieve those cards and we followed up on every decision with a visit in the home so that we could better explain the Gospel and confirm their conversion experience.
We give an altar call because we feel it's important that a person respond publicly to be a witness to the whole world that they are giving their life to Christ. We also believe that life is fleeting and that a person could walk out and die. John the Baptist called for a public display of baptism as an outward expression of an inward decision.
I have much more to say but haven't got the room here. God bless! Hang tough! Share the Word!
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 03:15:54 PM |
Age 19, MN |
I think Mr. Baumann has a very valid point. I am left wondering, however, whether he disapproves of such attractions as plays, productions, and thrift stores, or sees them as a very small (albeit valid) part of a much larger evangelism picture. Just curious...
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 03:11:04 PM |
Age 24, GA |
I've just completed a 90 week study on the Book of Acts and NOWHERE do you see ANYONE being invited to "church"...If anything it was the total opposite; believers gathering together for edification, and commissioning, and then going out to preach the Gospel. The apostles never hung a sign outside the upper room that said "Worship Service - Upper Room 7 p.m." Now, since hardly anyone is interested in evangelism, it is the total opposite of the early church; we invite people to worship service and let the pastor "evangelize" the lost (which now the Gospel is preached as a cure to sadness/depression/self-esteem). It went from God-centered saving with fear, to man-centered sitting with apathy.
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 02:56:18 PM |
Age 40, FL |
I think it is important to witness one on one, but this artile "cheapens" and disregards the hearts of those who work diligently to do their best to present the Gospel at the events you are so much against. If the heart of the people in the event is to reach the lost, who are you to judge the methods. I have a sister and brother in law and niece who asked Jesus into thier lives at a Christmas Presentation after the Pastor's Invitation. Their lives show true conversion by the fruit of their changed lives. They were not from the area and drove 4 hours to see their family in the Christmas Pageant and had thier lives changed. They now attend a local chuch regularly, read their Bibles and do personal devotions. All because the hearts of the people in our music and drama ministry bathed the performances in prayer and were striving to present the Gospel to people in any setting possible. Are you living in today's world? Many people turn a deaf ear on one on one witnessing, but have their hearts softened by a presentation that speaks to them and prepares them to see their sin and aceepts Christ's gift of forgivenness. I once sang the song "I want Jesus in Your Heart" at an open air concert in Boston and saw a man break into tears and one of the Pastors was able to minister to him and help him turn back to his Savior after running for years. That was just the Holy Spirit using an available vessel to reach out to someone who had strayed. It was not done for my glory but for the Savior's Glory and for HIS Use! You can't "Box" the Holy Spirit's ability to work by one type of witnessing. A wise New England Preacher once reminded his congregation, "we may be the only Bible someone ever reads", so now I am reminding you. Everyone is different and different things affect people in different ways. There is one Gospel, that leads to salvation, and I will not let you tell me that there is a right or wronng way to present it. If we are availble for the Father's use, he will reach the lost through us. I will continue to pray for you and other narrow minded Christians who believe this article, and I will continue to thank God for a sister and her family who were changed by attending a Christmas Pageant that touched their hearts and brought them to Jesus.
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Re: Quit Inviting People to Church
| Posted On: 04/17/07 02:50:37 PM |
Age 17, PA |
THIS SOOOO TRUE !!! Unfortunately people who really need to hear it will just get offended. People are too lazy, too careless and just too absorbed in their own lives to have to think about evangelism in their day to day lives. They would MUCH rather focus on an event that they can schedule in on their calendars than be annoyed and convicted daily to witness to friends and coworkers. Why else do you think there isn't revival ? It's because we decided to dump all our personal responsibility to witness on our pastors and programs. If we want people to come to Christ then JUST TELL THEM !!! When there is an opening for you to share the gospel don't say, "you should really come to my church sometime." Instead tell them that they are sinners, tell them that they are destined to hell and then tell them what they can do about it !!!!!! THEN you can invite them to church and THEN that seed you planted will get watered !!!!
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