wow
| Posted On: 04/06/09 11:28:36 AM |
Age 23, CO |
This was awesome. Do you have any other hate mail, Ken?
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Emergent Leader Tony Jones drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 07/17/08 12:18:33 PM |
Age 60, LA |
Reading these responses to a legitimate objection to vulgar language is reflective of the degeneration of our society not to mention so-called church groups. One question. Can you picture Jesus using the 'F' word? He is our model, He is our standard. See how far we have degenerated!
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Accountable to God
| Posted On: 01/24/08 04:26:31 PM |
Age 53, CANADA |
Please provide scripture to back your statement. As a Christian I believe that our only accountability is to God.
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Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the
| Posted On: 08/18/07 04:42:26 PM |
Age 71, FL |
This language is so typical of the Emergent Church sect. It's seeker friendly (another name for PC in my view). I guess this approach to the Bible means the "church" should go to the gutter to preach to the new generation. I'm no purist when it comes to language, but it's the Gospel message that saves, not the messenger's morality.
More to the point, however, the Bible is only scary to the unbeliever. And good ole fire and brimstone preaching was scary too.
Hell should be a scary thing, and we don't preach enough of it. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade, but not an f'n shovel. If the Christian does not respect the holy book, why should the gutter snipes respect it? Gutter language does not put the Bible in the proper context.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the
| Posted On: 08/02/07 03:26:23 PM |
Age 24, KS |
"repugnant Emergent punks"--really, Ken? You're honestly referring to another human being in such terms, albeit a person you disagree with, rather vehemently obviously? I shudder at the hatred your posts convey.
You criticize Tony Jones for cussing and you turn right around and insult him unashamedly. I wouldn't want my pastor to cuss, but neither would I want my pastor to encourage hateful comments and hateful attitudes.
Perhaps the words of the children's song are appropriate for you, Ken--"Be careful little mouth what you say."
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the
| Posted On: 07/19/07 12:03:18 PM |
Age 33, NH |
While, technically, there might not be anything Biblically wrong with such language ... what does it say about us? Do we need to be like the world in this way?
Nobody wants his children to speak that way ... but what am I to say if my 8-year-old refers to the Bible the same way my pastor does?
This is clearly an irresponsible use of our freedom. And it does nothing to contribute to spiritual growth. Why create an argument within the community of believers over profanity?
The man needs his mouth washed out with soap.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/19/07 06:47:44 PM |
Age 28, MD |
It's truly a sad day when we see so many in the church rushing to defend the use of vulgar and profane speech.
"To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech."-Proverbs 8:13
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/19/07 06:41:38 PM |
Age 28, MD |
You said: "If I were to say, "God is f***ing powerful!" isn't that showing respect to God's name?"
No, it is not showing respect to God's name. To begin with, look at the word you chose. What does it mean? It's a word that is vulgar and cheapens the act to which it is describing. And you want to apply that to God and say you're glorifying Him? Is that all the more powerful you think that He is...?
Profane words are degrading, not uplifting, no matter what context you put them in. They're called profanities for a reason. And perhaps the reason why there are no specific examples listed in the Bible is due to the fact that different cultures would have different profane sayings and expressions. That's why the Biblical writers could use such generalities when they told us to watch what comes out of our mouths!
"To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech."-Proverbs 8:13
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Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/19/07 04:17:17 PM |
Age 28, MD |
References please.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/19/07 04:07:58 PM |
Age 28, MD |
What does this have to do with the topic at hand? Maybe the treasure wasn't buried in the dirt, maybe there were just a bunch of tall weeds that made it impossible to see...and that's irrelevent to this topic. The point is, must Christians act like the rest of the world? Is it acceptable for Christians to throw around profanities like the rest of the world does? The Bible calls us to be separate. In but not of the world. And it has a lot to say about watching what comes out of our mouths.
"The mouth of the righteous brings forth wisdom, but a perverse tongue will be cut out."-Prov. 10:31
"I said, "I will watch my ways and keep my tongue from sin; I will put a muzzle on my mouth as long as the wicked are in my presence."
"-Ps. 39:1
"Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them."-Ezek. 22:26
"For, "Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from deceitful speech."-1 Pe. 3:10
Etc.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/19/07 03:45:12 PM |
Age 28, MD |
...and when you jump down in there with them, you've sunk lower than they have and they still can't reach the top...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/16/07 07:51:28 PM |
Age 18, CA |
You say, "You say that it is permissible to use profanity as long as it builds someone up. Please give me a scenario as I have never heard obscenities used in this manner." Suppose I get out of a math exam (I happen to have one tomorrow, and it's on my mind) and I'm talking to my buddy. He says, "Thanks for going over the material with me before the test. Because of what we covered, I f***ing owned it!" I know my friend must be fairly confident in his speech, since he indicated it with a cuss word. This would build me up, since he's telling me that because of how I helped him, he did well. Did he have to cuss? No. Did it add emphasis and certainty to what he was saying? Absolutely. Therefore, in this situation, I was built up more by his cussing than if he hadn't cussed. You say, "I was taught that if you wouldn't use it in speaking to Jesus, don't use it at all.I cannot imagine using any curse word in His presence; let alone using one to describe His work in His presence." In these two sentences, you claim two things, and support neither biblically. Like I have said before, if I have stated something falsely, show me using the Bible. Even if your first sentence were true, your second sentence makes an entirely subjective claim, that is, that YOU could not imagine using any curse word in His presence. That's fine. Romans 14:23 tells us that if you can't do something in faith, don't do it. However, the rest of Romans 14 tells us that we cannot claim that people who don't worship or serve God in the same way we do are out of line simply because their faith is different than ours. Obviously, if their faith is unbiblical, confrontation can and should happen. So simply because you believe that cuss words cannot be used to edify, which is okay to believe, does not mean that they can't. Does that make sense? I suggest reading through Romans 14 before rebutting my argument. You say, "I think you may have missed the point. Whatever happened to reverence and respect for the written word of God? And concerning Paul's use of strong language--he used it to describe his distaste for his own sinful nature, not anything pertaining to God. Major difference." Why is there a difference? If I were to say, "God is f***ing powerful!" isn't that showing respect to God's name? If that's sinful to say, where should we draw the line? Is it okay to call God "tight?" Are we supposed to call God "Thou" in our prayers? Once you begin banning certain colloquialisms that may have vulgar definitions, you must ban all colloquialisms to stay consistent. I wouldn't be surprised if the word "tight" was once sexual slang for the quality of a woman's private parts. So, according to you, where do we stop? What is acceptable? God bless.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/12/07 08:47:37 PM |
Age 54, PA |
You say that it is permissible to use profanity as long as it builds someone up. Please give me a scenario as I have never heard obscenities used in this manner.
I was taught that if you wouldn't use it in speaking to Jesus, don't use it at all. I cannot imagine using any curse word in His presence; let alone using one to describe His work in His presence.
I think you may have missed the point. Whatever happened to reverence and respect for the written word of God? And concerning Paul's use of strong language--he used it to describe his distaste for his own sinful nature, not anything pertaining to God. Major difference.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/06/07 04:58:01 PM |
Age 18, CA |
Hi, Pastor Silva. You say, "Stated above: "cuss with discernment. God bless." *rapidly shaking my head* Huh!? Eph. 4:29 - "Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths,..." Colossians 3:8 - "But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these...filthy language from your lips."" Thank you for using Scripture. I don't think you have a proof of your point here, though. You have not shown that cussing is "unwholesome talk" or "filthy language." Why do you think it's unwholesome or filthy? As another person pointed out, the apostle Paul used the Greek slang for "dirty tampons" when talking about his good works. Are you saying that Paul was using unwholesome talk as well? You say, "God bless cussing "with discernment" while one clearly and knowingly violates His Word?" Again, you need to show that these two statements go together. God blesses speech that builds up (Eph. 4:29) and speech that is full of grace (Col. 4:6). Nowhere does it say that speech satisfying these two requirements cannot contain cussing. They are not mutually exclusive. Actually, let me modify that slightly: They are sometimes mutually exclusive. If I were to talk with a child still in elementary school, for example, I probably should not use a cuss word, since the child may not see it as helpful for building up. Alternatively, if I told you that, as a pastor, you were the sh*t, that may not be beneficial for building you up. Does that make sense? However, these are specific cases. In the general case, I think that the Bible is silent on whether American cuss words are unwholesome. You say, "Case in point of just how dangerous this Emergent rebellion against the Bible is. What's next? Commit adultery "with discernment", steal "with discernment"...no way off this slippery slope." You again assume that cussing is by very nature sinful. You have not proven this and therefore cannot assume it. Obviously, God is clear on adultery and theft being sinful. He is not clear on certain words being generally sinful. Prove this before you make your point, since until you prove this, your argument holds no water. You say, "I say again, $evangelicalism$ embraces Emergent wolves in sheep's clothing like Tony Jones at its own peril." Honestly, I don't know Tony Jones. I don't know what he stands for. All I take issue with is your article, in which you lambast a man for using a word without showing why it was sinful or wrong of him to say what he did. That's my beef and my reason for posting this much concerning the issue, since I believe you unjustified for your attack on this man for this specific reason. God bless.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/06/07 04:40:15 PM |
Age 18, CA |
You say, "All I can say after reading through your muddled attempt to prove that filthy talk isn't a sin is; you're an idiot." I think this sentence is the perfect example of what Ephesians 4:29 says is wrong. It is not helpful for building me up. You did not interact with my arguments at all except to say they were "muddled," nor did you justify why my arguments were muddled. In short, this section of your reply was a waste of your time and mine. Please interact with my arguments. If I am wrong, show me! I am eager to learn from someone older who has more life experience than I do, but I can't just take what you say 'a priori'; there needs to be justification. You say, "You spend all kinds of words proving how foul talk shouldn't be used then defend your right to say it because it isn't really sin." Not true. Maybe I didn't make my point clearly enough. I'm trying to say that the Bible does not forbid the use of any particular word or group of words. Instead, it forbids using words in a way that is harmful or unwholesome. It seems you believe that cuss words are always harmful or unwholesome. I disagree, in the general case. There are many times when they ARE harmful; however, that doesn't make them harmful all the time. I challenge you to show me, biblically, why cuss words are always wrong, since it seems that's what drives your argument. Does that clarify anything? If not, tell me where I'm being unclear. You say, "You are a classic example of the pomo generation who doesn't really believe anything is a sin except not being "relational" or "missional" or whatever the current catch phrase is today. Yep, you're an idiot." I don't know what this "pomo generation" is, but I would caution you against stereotyping me since you don't know me at all. I am not part of the Emerging or the Emergent Church, but I have a very clear picture of sin and its consequences. I adhere to most points of Reformed Theology, including (at least) 4.5 of the five points of Calvinism. Does that make you respect me more? It shouldn't. I'm only pointing these things out because I want to show you how wrong your stereotype is. Please, treat me as a brother in Christ, since that's what I am. Show me where I'm wrong instead of just telling me my argument is "muddled." Tell me where I'm not making sense, and I'll clarify myself for you. God bless.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/06/07 09:28:27 AM |
Age 40, MN |
Ken,
I wonder if you realize that 100 years ago or 200 years ago or whenever, that even the most conservative church in America (yes yours) would be considered 'heretical' by the standards of the Christian community of that era. From the way you dress, the things you allow and yes, even on multiple doctrinal issues, that of course we see now as 'non-essential'.
So is it really helpful for you to continue to act as though you are the one guy and church that has it all right, that knows God's mind perfectly? How can you be so confident? God has made Himself known, I agree, but there is mystery, we don't have all the answers, we're human, we CAN'T. I really can't buy your critique here and a lot of what I see on this website.
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/05/07 11:17:04 PM |
Age 25, CA |
Ken Silva needs to be silenced. He is only trying to divide the christian church. Also why is he afraid of criticism, by not letting anyone post comments on his blog? Ken, please stop. You are giving "christian" and "silva" a bad name.
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Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/05/07 10:20:28 PM |
Age 17, IN |
Thank you. I think that you and I see eye to eye. For people to be caught up on English words and apparently not care about the lost that need reached is mind-boggling to me. Thank you for not being unreasonable.
(It seems like whenever I start to think that I agree with someone, they make some comment out-of-left-field that makes my jaw drop, and then I move on to keep looking for someone who isn't insane. Thank you for not being one of those people. Thank you.)
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Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/05/07 10:12:34 PM |
Age 17, IN |
Paul said in the Bible that "...all things are permissible, but not everything is beneficial." While the Bible does not clearly specify which words are innapropiate, we as Christians must not do the things that are detrimental to our witness.
The author of this article claimed, however, in a rapid fire of attacks on the Emergent church, that it is a common, accepted practice for adherents of this group to use such language as the f-word like the pastor in this story.
May I remind of you of one simple fact, Mr. Author? There are countless people who have come to a saving knowledge of Christ as their savior through what you have named "The Emergent Cult." It seems to me that if you are going to keep other Christians accountable in a Biblical manner, you will do it in a way that does not discourage these young believers. You need to point out the problems you see in the Emergent set of beliefs, but you must do it in Godly love. If you do not, you will show those who are spiritually immature that God's people not only disagree with one another, but that they are unwilling to settle their differences maturely. If you believe that you have something beneficial to say to those attempting to find Yahweh through a group of flawed people (like yourself), then please share with them what God has placed on your heart.
But if the words that you say do nothing to build anyone up, they are just as vulgar as the pastor's word to which you so strongly took offense. Vulgar speech is not limited to specific words not accepted in specific regions. The attacking tone you have taken with this article may be doing more damage than that pastor to whom you have referred.
This is just some food for thought.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
| Posted On: 04/05/07 07:14:14 PM |
Age 50, MN |
All I can say after reading through your muddled attempt to prove that filthy talk isn't a sin is; you're an idiot. You spend all kinds of words proving how foul talk shouldn't be used then defend your right to say it because it isn't really sin. You are a classic example of the pomo generation who doesn't really believe anything is a sin except not being "relational" or "missional" or whatever the current catch phrase is today. Yep, you're an idiot.
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