Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/26/07 01:08:46 PM |
Age 52, CO |
Y'all need to stop arguing with Islam sympathizers. Don't you get it? Conflict engagement is all they seek. Mere engagement is their victory. The best way to treat with Islam is to marginalize it. A cult member lives inside a self-referential world view. Until they choose to escape the limits of their cult, there's nothing to be gained by treating them like reasonable human beings.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/25/07 05:03:52 PM |
Age 19, VA |
We log onto here for two reasons: First, someone has to address the 'echo-chamber effect' that goes on in places where only one ideology is taught. Second, occasionally, something compelling is said that forces us to evolve our position. What better way to get good discussion than to go to where those that disagree with you hang out? This is why i chose the university i did, and why most of my friends hold various different viewpoints from mine. We like the exchange of ideas. It doesn't scare us into small, like-thinking groups.
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Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/25/07 01:28:28 AM |
Age 30, MO |
"I just received this link; I STRONGLY ADVISE EVERYONE TO GO TO IT AND FURTHER YOUR EDUCATION ABOUT TERRORISM IN OUR COUNTRY. Please!!! God Bless You http://usawakeup.org/mission.htm." In the interests of fairness, I went to this website. Of course, the quality of the information depends on the quality of your sources. There's a map about where the terrorists are. You can see it here: http://standeyo.com/News_Files/NBC/Terrorist_cells.html
By the way, NBC stands for "nuclear, biological, chemical", not a respectable journalist. Anyway, the map was made by STANDEYO.com, a group that sells "Dare to Prepare"--a survivalist company...not exactly a neutral source, but one that has an incentive to SEE THAT YOU ARE SCARED. OK, where'd they get their info? Most of it comes from Steven Emerson, a disgraced reporter who has been caught forging FBI by the Associated Press (http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1443). Oh, well. Not looking good. Oh yeah, he also claimed: ON THE OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING
"This (the bombing) was done with the intent to inflict as many casualties as possible. That is a Middle Eastern trait." (CBS News, April 19, 1995) "Oklahoma City, I can tell you, is probably considered one of the largest centers of Islamic radical activity outside the Middle East." (CBS News, April 19, 1995). He said it. He can't unsay it. As we know, the OK City Bombing was carried out by a members of a right-wing paramilitary group. Oops. The "articles" that I can find linked from the recommended site are mostly politically biased. But that's not my opinion, it's the webmaster's: "have been criticized by some of not presenting a bipartisan approach to this threat (and other material on this web site). When I first started this web site a year ago, I tried the middle-of-the-road bipartisan approach, and kept the politics pretty much out of it. Well, that approach didn't work - I got the same criticism and hate filled emails that I get now, nothing changed. So, my approach now is to put the blame where I believe it belongs. If this approach offends you, or you totally disagree with what's on this site, I recommend you seek a web site that more agrees with your opinion." So, yeah. No credibility whatsoever. I'll take him up on his invitation to not linger at this unreliable site. hj hjhop.blogspot.com (not suitable for children or their parents)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/25/07 01:03:37 AM |
Age 30, IN |
I just looked up the case you mentioned in Germany. It is disturbing indeed, but it falls far short of what you suggested, which was that a German court upheld a Muslim "man's right to beat and mistreat his wife because he lived under sharia law, and the judge put sharia law over the laws of Germany." That's greatly overstating it. The judge refused to grant a fast-track divorce, instead requiring the abused wife to wait the German-law-mandated 1 year between legal separation and divorce - and refused to grant it because of the fact that both husband and wife were Muslim. Obviously there's a huge difference between refusing to speed up a divorce, on the one hand, and granting a right to beat someone, on the other hand (let alone "putting sharia law over the laws of Germany"). But despite the exaggeration (did you watch this on FOX News, by any chance?), you're right that's it's a worrisome development. Fortunately, Germans think so as well: According to Der Spiegel, "On Wednesday, numerous politicians in Berlin voiced their horror at the verdict -- and demanded disciplinary action against the judge." "In my opinion, this is a case of extreme violation of the rule of law...." said Social Democrat parliamentarian Dieter Wiefelsptz. Hardly a rolling over for sharia law. So while I agree with you that these kinds of developments are to be watched out for, it comes nowhere even close to being a case of non-Muslims being forced to obey sharia law. It's not even a case of enforcing sharia law for muslims; nor a case of requiring non-Muslims to allow Muslims to follow sharia law; nor a case of even allowing muslims to follow sharia law. I'm still very anxious to make this bet with you - all my money against the claim that the US (or Minnesota) will, in my lifetime, ever require non-Muslims to obey sharia law. And I'm still wondering which of the sharia laws you think are most likely, or closest, to being legislated here in the US. (Jan Markell should talk to CWN columnist Chuck Baldwin - he seems to think that Feminism is the greatest threat to the US. Any idea how the US will legislatively enforce BOTH radical feminism AND sharia law? I'd LOVE to see how that's supposed to work!! Perhaps they'll happily cancel each other out =) )
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Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 10:17:12 PM |
Age 30, MO |
How do you know I'm not 19 VA, 47 AK, or, for that matter, 61 TX? I could be, you know. I'm being consistent with you, and take that as a sign of my good faith. hj hjhop.blogspot.com (not for children or infantile adults)
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Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 09:01:00 PM |
Age 30, MO |
“TO CWN----ALL WHO READ CWN, JAN MARKELL, AND THE FEEDBACKS, BEWARE. The person whose posts bear the ID "30 MO" and promotes hjblogspot.com is promoting a vile, repulsive, foul-mouthed, barn-yard language mess that HE is responsible for, and he has the audacity to try to promote it on this website. Be forewarned, the "hj" in his name stands for 'HAPPY JIHAD'S HOUSE OF PANCAKES.' No wonder he's so obnoxious on CWN, he's just obnoxious all the way around!” Hallelujah! Someone on this website did research, found evidence and came up with an informed opinion! Good on you, mate. Did you see my caveat about visiting my site further down the page? It reads: “Please be aware that my language there is far far more candid there than I would ever post on here, and that it is not a site for children.” No tricks. About my handle, HJ, I picked that name for many reasons: 1) “Jihad” means “struggle” no more no less, and like “crusade” it can be taken to extremes. 2) A lot of people in this country think it means “kill Christians” 3) That’s uninformed. 4) A lot of Muslims think that it means that it means “Kill Christians.” 5) They too are wrong. 6) People on both sides take it in the wrong way (as is the case here) 7) I am a really genuinely “happy” and I enjoy the agonistic view of life—it’s a struggle, man. 8) I read the website name as “Happy Struggle”—I gleefully debate. The house of pancakes bit, well, Chinese restaurants often have names that don’t translate well: “The Happy Won”; “Joyous Happy Café” or whatever. There’s always happiness in them somewhere, though, and that’s kind of sweet. So, that was the association with the restaurant thing. Now, with respect to the language, which I must admit, is generous and foul and cathartic, I don’t post it here. It’s my own thing and it’s completely fine—and it’s terribly cathartic. Yay. I mean, talking about UNIVERSAL bodily functions is far less offensive to me than pronouncing hate for Muslims. “Are you one of those people who just thrives on stirring up the trouble-pot?” (BTW, I’m sure Nero thought that about the Christians.) I love it. I love having my expectations turned upside down, and I try to share my enthusiasm. I feel it dizzying to learn something or see something in a new way. Really. “You need counseling AND you need to empty your head and your heart of all the bitterness and junk that's been deposited there, and get in the Bible.” My website, actually takes care of my cathartic needs, really. I often don’t know how I feel about something until I write about it. “I don't know what has made you this way, but you can't be a happy person!!!” I can be and am. Indeed, I was not happy about life until I realized that I really wasn’t a believer. I always felt torn and dishonest—a lot of people are miserable this way inside and don’t think that they can escape and like themselves. It was better for everyone that I be honest with myself. And I’m happy and feel no compunction about my atheism. I am proud of it, really and it is a misconception that it an unfulfilling life. Indeed, feel I MUST find it fulfilling because it’s my only chance. Really. hj hjhop.blogspot.com (not for children or wilingly infantile adults)
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Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 02:54:54 PM |
Age 61, TX |
I just received this link; I STRONGLY ADVISE EVERYONE TO GO TO IT AND FURTHER YOUR EDUCATION ABOUT TERRORISM IN OUR COUNTRY. Please!!! God Bless You
http://usawakeup.org/mission.htm
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Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 02:43:58 PM |
Age 61, TX |
TO CWN----ALL WHO READ CWN, JAN MARKELL, AND THE FEEDBACKS, BEWARE. The person whose posts bear the ID "30 MO" and promotes hjblogspot.com is promoting a vile, repulsive, foul-mouthed, barn-yard language mess that HE is responsible for, and he has the audacity to try to promote it on this website. Be forewarned, the "hj" in his name stands for "HAPPY JIHAD'S HOUSE OF PANCAKES." No wonder he's so obnoxious on CWN, he's just obnoxious all the way around!
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Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 01:39:44 PM |
Age 28, TX |
I agree that certain aspects of jobs should be made known to the person prior to being hired. But consider this- if one applies at Target he might say "I don't want to work as a cahiere or in the meat dept." When told he wouldn't, he assumes he will not be touching pork products. However, they suddenly put him in that compromising position and he needs the job. Why, with all the other non-muslim employees, should he be required to do something against his beliefs?
I was forced to work at a Halloween carnival- told that I would be fired if I didn't do it. They knew my beliefs, and this was not made known to me upon hire that it would be a job requirement. It was unpaid, even, and to make matters worse my dad had a heart attack just a couple of hours earlier and my mom had no way of reaching me while I was at the carnival. Still, I needed the job- just getting another job is not that easy. I worked at the ghost booth while my dad lie dying in a hospital. If I had felt the ability to cry "Religious freedom!" and walk out without being fired, I certainly would have done so!!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 01:38:30 PM |
Age 19, VA |
wow, I'm not used to seeing a response to my feedback saying that isn't negative, an attack on me or anything about me, or an indictment of liberalism. Thank you. I'm truly greatful.
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Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 01:33:35 PM |
Age 19, VA |
You talk of history--big mistake. Welcome to my home field. First off--thousands of years? Islam has yet to celebrate its second millennium, being only 1400 years old (Muhammad's inspirations came in 610 i believe). SO what, you may say? the point still stands that they don't change. Unfortunately for you, Islam has changed quite a bit (though not as much as christianity, so you would have a point if you were thinking of that comparison). Anyway, Islam started out fighting for its own survival against pagan-like religions of the area it began in. It eventually stated to gain some establishment among a small community, and was sort of like the early christian church, with everyone living for everyone else who was part of the religion. After Muhammad's death, it changed again, with the sunni/shia split, and both sects spread non-violently for quite some time throughout the region. As Europe moved into the dark ages and gave up the scientific advancements of Rome, much of that knowledge was stored by Islamic scholars in Northern Africa and a little in the middle east--at this point Muslims were the most enlightened, non-dogmatic people in the western world. As the capital of Islam activities shifted to baghdad, several conservative movements became prominent, rejecting the knowledge of old just as europe began to rediscover it, although the persians did (and still do in modern day turkey) take a more progressive and less dogmatic approach to the world. Even more radical conservative muslim movements have been on the rise for the past couple of hundred years, and historians often compare the state of islam today to that of christianity from 1095-1291, the period involving the crusades. If anything, we're seeing growing pains out of islam that seem to be normal for western religions, we do not see a reason to think that the pattern of change up this point will suddenly stop with this incarnation of Islam becoming set in stone
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Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 01:24:50 PM |
Age 28, TX |
I should preface this that I was also appaled about the airline incident and how it was handled. I just want to make one comment on your post. You say we have the responsability to preserve our culture. What about the Muslims? They should have the same consideration, wither we agree with them or not. The American culture is not Christian, it's a 'melting pot of cultures and ideals. The American culture is neither right nor wrong. There are ELEMENTS of both. For instance, "The American Dream" is funamentally wrong, in my opinion. The deffinition of Success according to American culture is wrong. In fact, the 'Christian' holidays that are so intrenched into American culture are PAGAN. So why is it that we have to so ardently protect the 'American Culture' when what God commands us to do is to love Him and keep His commandments, which includes loving our neighbors AND our enemies?!? In the Old Testament God commanded the Israelites to stay seperated from the Gentiles to preserve their religion/culture/lineage. Well, we as Christians have not segregated ourselves into our own commune, so we have to be tolerant YES I'm USING THE WORD TOLERANT of other cultures that are represented here. I don't see a whole lot of loving going on for the Muslims (and not all of them are terrorists, many of them are women and children!!)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 01:20:38 PM |
Age 61, TX |
---Factor in that a large part of France's population is Islamic.
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Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 01:19:30 PM |
Age 19, VA |
well we do a pretty good job tolerating christian fundamentalism without the laws of the united states changing to reflect those beliefs over everything else. By your logic all fundamentalism should be banned. Tell you what, I'll make you a deal. If the christians take over the US and impose restrictive religious based laws, then after the revolution takes it back I'll agree to kick the muslims out--but only if all other religions leave too.
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Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 01:15:26 PM |
Age 19, VA |
thanks hj, it's much appreciated. Although i must disagree with you on one point--I really do hate country music.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 01:15:06 PM |
Age 61, TX |
Muslims simply threaten the Christians, and kill them for speaking out or even owning a Bible. Then again, ex-Islamic Christians have had the lives of their children threatened in Michigan for speaking out about---actually running film clips---of the violence radical Islam is teaching and doing. Besides, the Christian missionaries come teaching love, and are no physical threat to anyone. (Don't get all historic on me--we don't live in the past, and I don't care what your gr.gr.gr.gr. parents did, and I don't know what mine did, so leave that out of this---for all I know yours persecuted mine because they were Irish!!!) Muslims are coming here with the express intent of spreading Islam via violence because they've been programmed from the crib that it's good!!! You asked if I was hiding something, the answer is NO!!! You asked how I know there are so many terror cells---the answer is posted in the feedback of this article---I'm TRYING TO GET THE WORD OUT, not hide anything! Why don't you just review the feedback and find that post, then you'll know my source??? And why don't you try to learn some of this on your own, instead of spending your time knocking Christians with your snide remarks. I still wonder what made you so bitter; is it because you're actually Islamic and you've been offended?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 12:54:13 PM |
Age 61, TX |
WELL I'M SORRY YOU DON'T BELIEVE WHAT I SAID BECAUSE IT'S TRUE. Last night on the news was a story about a judge in Germany who upheld a Muslim man's right to beat and mistreat his wife because he lived under sharia law, and the judge put sharia law over the laws of Germany. It was challenged, and the ruling was upheld. It has been appealed to a higher court. The last line of the story was "GOODBYE GERMANY"! I understand this morning that the ruling has been reversed, but I haven't verified it. But it's a start for them, isn't it? There's already an area in Canada that is considering allowing Muslims to LEGALLY ENFORCE SHARIA LAW because there are so many of them. That's old news. Where have you been? As far as our government is concerned, I think after this thing is set in motion, the USA as a democracy will be history. Boy are you naive. From India to the Mediterranean, there are Islamic countries, with the exception of the DEMOCRACY OF ISRAEL, and they're hell-bent (bent to end up in hell) trying to change that.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 12:20:48 PM |
Age 61, TX |
Well, I just responded to an earlier post of yours---too soon. In it I had said you needed counseling, and an open-minded reading of the Bible. But now I need to add to that. "Stupid" can't be educated, while "ignorant" can be educated and thus changed. I can't decide which you are, stupid or ignorant, and I'm beginning to wonder if you're a Islamic (in spite of your atheist claim). Incidentally, the Christian way DOES allow anyone to do whatever they like, it's just that Christians believe if you don't follow Christ, you're not saved. They DON'T KILL YOU for that freedom of choice, though.
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Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 12:03:19 PM |
Age 61, TX |
As sincerely as I can say it, I feel so sorry for you. Your posts indicate that you must be a terribly unhappy person to live in such a sarcastic, negative frame of mind. If you don't believe in God, if you disagree with the politics, faith practices and thinking of people who do, and follow this website and want to freely communicate their opinions, then why don't you just STOP logging on and go something that makes you happy---if there is anything that can! Are you one of those people who just thrives on stirring up the trouble-pot? I think you need counseling AND you need to empty your head and your heart of all the bitterness and junk that's been deposited there, and get in the Bible. I don't know what has made you this way, but you can't be a happy person!!!
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Re: Re: Re: The Islamic Republic of Minnesota
| Posted On: 03/24/07 10:55:38 AM |
Age 30, MO |
"You are a very naive person. Your opinion wreaks" [reeks] "of a kind of tolerance that sees itself as virtuous" [because is better to be nice], "because you have no real convictions!" [No, the conviction is it is nice to be nice.] Islam does mean "submit" [And Christianity, especially as it is expressd on this website means, do whatever you like? Right.] "someday because of people like you, we will all have to submit to Allah or be killed" [I can't decide if this paranoia is stupid, sad or hilarious. Evidence?] "It won't matter if you are a fundamentalist Christian, an atheist, or a flower child, you will have to submit. [Do you have any idea what you are saying. YOU CANT BE TOLERANT. THEY WILL MAKE YOU SUBMIT. How can you not see the constradiction there? "You will not be able to promote your liberal ideas, because Islamo Facists are not liberals; they are Fundamentalists." [Like the aforementioned fundmantalist Christians. Don't pretend that you like atheists or that you are an atheist's besst friend. You have as much respect for them as you do for Muslims.] "I for one wish to live under the laws of the United States of America, not Sharia law." [Are you sure that there is no such thing as Christian Sharia? Just saying.] "If they want to live here, they should abide" [so, "submit," eh?] "by our laws, not theirs! "We certainly couldn't move to their country and dictate what our Country's laws are. Wake up!" [I don't like taking swipes at easy targets....nah, it's all good!" hj hjhop.blogspot.com
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