Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 10:10:37 PM |
Age 41, NM |
Did you even read the comments you were responding to? The person stated straightforwardly that each person has a responsibility not to resist that temptation. He is not saying that if someone has a certain tendency then it exuses his behavior. Dr. Mohler did not exuse sin. Neither did the man you responded to. I suppose you have a natural inclination and attraction to people of the opposite sex. Does that mean its okay for you to engage in sinful sexual activity? HEAVENS NO! Then why would you suggest that to say someone has homosexual tendencies excuses their sin?
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 10:02:56 PM |
Age 53, IA |
I had grown so weary of the countless numbers of times the EXCUSE of a particular "predisposition" to any given sin being "genetic" that I had started responding "all sin is genetic" - meaning that to be "all sin is original sin" - inherited from Adam - the problem is certainly NOT a physical attribute such as the gene code; it's entirely SPIRITUAL.
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Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 10:01:24 PM |
Age 52, ON |
I absolutely agree. You either believe God's word or you don't. God created Adam (man) in His image, then He created Eve (woman). They fit together so perfectly that children were born. It's that simple. IN HIS IMAGE!!! A man and a woman. Then God tells us that it is sin for it to be any other way. You either believe the entire Bible or you don't. I do believe that the Bible is God's word and I believe it entirely. God gave us such simple rules and the world wants to play "God" and try to find ways to change the rules. And let's not forget that Satan thinks he'll win. But WE KNOW WHO WINS!!!!!!!!
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 09:58:30 PM |
Age 41, NM |
God call something sin and then builds it into us so that we can't help but sin? That is totally unscriptural. What about James 1:13-14 "And remember, no one who wants to do wrong should ever say, 'God is tempting me.' God is never tempted to do wrong, and he never tempts anyone else either. Temptation comes from the lure of our own evil desires..."
God created man perfect. Adam walked in perfect harmony with God, unbroken fellowship. But he chose to sin. The Bible clearly teaches that sin entered the world through one man and death through sin, and in this way death came to all me because all sinned.
God did not "design" sin into our genetic code. We need to search the scriptures for answers not make up our own answers.
That said - we all have certain tendencies. Greed or pornography may be my issues and your may be drugs and alcohol. Those things become sinful when we act upon them, rather than crucify them.
What I don't know is if these "tendencies" are genetic or not. But even if they are, they are not designed by God. They are the result of the fall.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 09:46:48 PM |
Age 41, NM |
Dr. Mohler specifically stated that homosexual "behavior" remains sinful, no matter what genetics a man may possess. But genetic studies may find that some people have a genetic disposition toward homosexual "orientation". We need to keep in mind the difference between "orientation" and "behavior".
I have a natural sexual drive toward women. And with that I have a responsibility to crucify my flesh and not lust. I also must control myself and not allow myself to commit adultery. My "tendency" or "orientation" is not sinful...it just IS. It becomes sin when I act upon my sinful tendency and engage in sinful "behavior". The same is true for a Christian man who has inclinations toward men. He must control those things. He must not lust. He must not commit fornication.
I do not know if these "tendencies" are genetic in nature or not. Just that if I act on them, I sin against God and against my own body, as the scriptures teach.
NO TEMPTATION HAS SEIZED YOU EXCEPT WHAT IS COMMON TO MAN (in other words no temptation is unique to me, my tendency is not some special circumstance that allows me freedom to sin) AND GOD IS FAITHFUL. HE WILL NOT LET YOU BE TEMPTED BEYOND WHAT YOU CAN BEAR. BUT WHEN YOU ARE TEMPTED HE WILL PROVIDE A WAY OUT SO THAT YOU CAN STAND UP UNDER IT. 1 CORINTHIANS 10:13
I do not believe Dr. Mohler was in any way excusing homosexual activity as something that is not sinful. It is. It always will be, just as adultery and fornication and beastiality and lust are always sinful.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 09:29:17 PM |
Age 41, MT |
Regards to Steve Camp article:
Steve, I appreciate your stand and committment to the gospel. You properly gave credit where due to Al Mohler, yet even though I am in total agreement with you on your rebuttal, I was a little disappointed. At some points you came across kind of arrogant, and a little more smart alecky than edifying. I agree with your stand completely, I just feel it is proper that we truly exhort in love, not with a hint of cockiness. Thanks again for your work.
Scott
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 08:56:43 PM |
Age 16, MN |
if one were to look at Doc. Mohler's writings, it would become very clear that he does NOT believe that sin is in the genes. yes, that is what he said in that one paragraph. but when reading ones writings one can't imply their own meanings. one has to read objectively. i understand that mohler made it sound like that was what he was saying but that is not what he was trying to imply. he was in fact theorizing. as a group of people had presented that argrument, he was simply saying IF THAT WERE TRUE, THEN... he never meant to imply that it was. i would urge people to go read his other works before coming to the concensus that he truly believes that.
~hillary age 16
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 08:34:04 PM |
Age 34, MO |
Hi. Interesting response. Did you actually read either of Mohler's articles, or merely respond off the cuff?
Btw, I believe Mohler is being a witness here in season and out of season, preaching the word in a secular context. Please remember this is the future. Thanks.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 08:28:45 PM |
Age 77, MN |
I think they are mistaking a genetic function for an endocrine function. Hormones can change the physical form and mental outlook from male to female orientation and vice versa. This is not genetic. This is apart from the volitional aspects of same sex desire which is sin. Endocrine misfunction can predispose one toward a particular thought pattern. The sin is there when a person acts on those predispositions. God gives us the ability to resist sinful actions.
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 08:09:48 PM |
Age 50, VA |
You wrote, "1. The Bible is no more a biology textbook than it is a calculus textbook." Well, I certainly hope the Bible isn't a biology textbook because we'd have to rewrite (correct) it every year! BUT where the Bible touches on biology IT IS TRUE. Where it touches on geology IT IS TRUE. Where it touches on anthropology IT IS TRUE. Where it touches on cosmology IT IS TRUE. So no, the Bible is not primarily a science textbook BUT wherever it touches on science IT IS TRUE! The scripture is the infalliable, inerrant, and all-sufficient Word of God!
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 06:40:29 PM |
Age 68, VA |
I am a psychology professor. I have within the past three years developed several new coursed which has required an incredible amound of research. In the course of my reading I have learned that in various parts of this country and the world people have sex with animals. Will scientists find a gene that causes that.
About fifteen years ago I wrote a 100 page doctoral dissertation on homosexuality.
Let's get real and call it what it is. Any form of sexual activity preformed outside the framework of marriage (Heterosexual marriage) is sin.
In 1973 Dr. Mennenger wrote a book entitled "What Ever Happend to Sin?"
I ask that question again.
If homosexuality is not sin, what is?
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 06:03:44 PM |
Age 27, WA |
First, there was no need for the whole "my dad can beat up your dad" feel of the first half of your response. Steve Camp acknowledged and understands how brilliant Dr. Mohler is. Just because he is who he is does not mean that his ideas should not be questioned, in fact Dr. Mohler welcomed this in his articles. So I don't think there is any need to "be ashamed and ask forgivness." Second, it is obvious that what Dr. Mohler may have meant to say and what he actually communicated were completely different. It was not just Steve Camp that "supposedly" misunderstood him, but many other christian leaders, myself, and the media. So "if" this is one big misunderstanding then Dr. Mohler should retract his previous statements and clarify exactly what he beleives.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 05:48:50 PM |
Age 45, FL |
As a born-again Christian, I would like to make the following observations:
1. The Bible is no more a biology textbook than it is a calculus textbook. Therefore, to appeal to the Bible to make a scientific proof is not good logic.
2. Galatians 5 makes it clear that there are sins of the flesh. Is "flesh" not "genetic"?
3. I think that a genetic "gene" is Biblically possible, just as many Christians think that an "old earth" is Biblically possible (such as Phillip Johnson author of "Darwin On Trial".) Furthermore, I think that a "gay gene" would STRENGTHEN the Gospel in that it simply proves that we cannot avoid sin. It points to the need for a Savior even more! We can't help it! God calls something sin, then builds it into us so that we cannot help but sin. Just because there may be a natural component to sin doesn't make sin "non-sin"; it means we do not have the capacity to avoid it without neing born again. Then we are to "crucify the flesh with its passions and desires"...the natural man hasn't the desire nor the ability to do this without the Savior and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Instead of hiding our heads in the sand through denial, we had better wake up, be good Christians and love God with our MINDS so that we can be prepared to give a Biblical response to the possibility of a "gay gene". Remember, at one time the Church thought that the Sun revolved around the Earth.
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 05:48:25 PM |
Age 76, CO |
My first reaction is to wonder if the good Dr. is trying to find and excuse to be honosexual? There is no justification-- it is sin and no other excuse is valid. Enough said.
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 05:26:51 PM |
Age 27, WA |
What is your point? Do you think that God is actually the kind of God that would genetically engineer people so that they could then be tempted beyond what they could bare? (1 Cor 10:13) This whole "genitic sin theory" is called an EXCUSE. If I can show that I am somehow not completely responsible for the way I think or feel then that gives me some justification for my actions. What a load of rubbish. How can people have such a messed up view of God.
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 05:18:02 PM |
Age 27, WA |
WHAT!? "The fall effected the Genome?" Are you serious? So God allowed the fall to effect our genetic makeup with the hopes that one day by our own brilliance we would discover how invade the human embryo in order to change it back to his created design...???? That is too ridiculous for Steve or anyone to waste time responding to. That is a messed up Worldview and theology.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 05:00:07 PM |
Age 56, VA |
Yes, a closer reading of these is in order. I think the christian community has accepted the media hype at face value. Al Mohler affirms that there is currently no scientific evidence of a gay gene and that even if there were, it would not change the fact that God's condemnation of sin is not determined by science, but by the word of God.
I personally see nothing wrong, unbiblical or unchristian about his comments.
Furthermore, some who identified themselves as Christians spoke of homosexuality and homosexuals with hate-filled language that literally made me shudder. Do we really love sinners? Do we not understand ourselves to be sinners saved by grace? - Al Mohler
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 04:46:37 PM |
Age 50, TX |
It really boils down to choice! We have a choice; to love, honor and serve our Lord; to love our brothers and sisters! All through Scripture, it came down to choice. From Adam and Eve, to us. Do we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and personal Savior? We have a choice! Every one of the examples, choice! So, are they midful of 2 Timothy 4:3 & Romans 1:18-19! Let's pray for those who are lost. That the Holy Spirit will convict them of their sin, so they can share in the promised inheritance, as Christ says in John 14:2; "for I go and prepare a place for you! See you there!
In Christ!
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 04:42:39 PM |
Age 60, AL |
I respectfully recommend that Dr. Mohler (and anyone interested in this topic) read Dr. Erwin Lutzger's book "The Truth About Same-Sex Marriage."
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/20/07 04:41:43 PM |
Age 22, OH |
Steve Camp has completely twisted Mohler's words... what an embarassment. Camp rails on and on about sin as though Mohler has ever said anything contrary to the biblical view of sin. Mohler's point is that the Fall affected the genome, too. Camp refuses to address this, instead prattling on and on as he attacks a strawman.
Camp also does no justice to the sheep experiment, instead belitting as he assumes that his view of scriptures rules out the research's conclusion.
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