Stupid in the end
| Posted On: 12/29/09 05:37:51 PM |
Age 47, NY |
I am not stupid; I am a fool for Christ.
I know you may think this is crazy but... After checking with a theoretical quantum physicist in Israel, The preservation of perfect pre-sin DNA in one scarlet thread of redemption is not so far fetched to him. With God all things are possible and in all likelihood probable.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 05/01/07 01:02:34 PM |
Age 57, AR |
I just listened to Mohler's radio program (archives) on www.almohler.com, and he says that there is not proof that this testing can be done, and he speaks against it. I couldn't believe he would thing positively about homosexuality. I would suggest that when there is a Christian radio show host, or in the spotlight, please ask them to come to world view weekend website, via audio or video.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 04/26/07 06:43:44 PM |
Age 50, SD |
I defenitely believe that homosexuality is a sin. However, I would like to point out the possibility of hormone problems in males and females actually playing a part in some situations involving homosexuals. I have seen what happens to men who are using female homones as part of their prostrate cancer treatment. They certainly tune into a feminine side that they never had before! Could it also be possible that hormones being out of wack could lead a person toward homosexuality? If people are sensing that they have these tendencies even when they are not choosing it they should seek medical help and see if a homone imbalance is triggering it. We have a great deal of hormone problems today due to the hormones given to chickens and other livestock to get them to grow faster and produce quicker. This is not saying homosexuality is OK. It is simply recognizing that people may have these tendencies even when they are not choosing it because of a chemical imbalance in their system, very similar to mental illness. Lets have compassion for homosexuals and love them to Jesus. They may not have just a sin problem but a physical problem as well and we must have a heart to see them get help.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/28/07 10:04:07 AM |
Age 45, SD |
I am not an intellectual mind. I have not read all the posts, so forgive me if my feedback is repitious.
As I understand from what I've studied, when sin entered the world, it entered the physical creation. Our world is now imperfect, and we are living with the consequences of centuries of imperfection. Sin affected our physical bodies as well. Humans are born with all sorts of genetic problems as a result of the Fall. It is not hard for me to believe that, yes, there is a genetic malformation for homosexuality, just as there is a genetic malformation that leads to 6 toes. It is part of our original sin nature. I am not excusing sinful behavior, and yes, we need to confess all sin, even the original sin we carry, to God.
That said, we are living in a culture worldwide that glorifies human choice. The choice to sin, to live out the sinful nature in homosexuality, gossip, gambling is our choice. Our choice to sin needs to be confessed to God.
If I were born with a genetic mutation (and I am; sin permeates every molocule of my body) and there were to be a cure or course of action that could prevent me from exaserbating my condition, I could choose to seek treatment. In the case of homosexuality, choosing to refrain from living out the sinful nature can be done. We all must choose to live not according to our sinful nature that we are born with. This is what God wants. I choose to seek treatment for my sin-soaked genetically-mutated body by reaching out to God. He has created an opportunity for relationship with Him through our total sin-permeated genetic makeup. What a wonderful God we serve.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/25/07 04:30:59 PM |
Age 45, MS |
test
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/25/07 01:48:37 PM |
Age 45, TX |
While I completely agree with Mr. Camp's article, I think he left out one sin gene and that is the Calvinist gene. If he's going to include the Arminian gene (I'm not an Arminian, but I am a non-Calvinist) then he should have included the Calvinist gene. :-)
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/24/07 12:05:24 PM |
Age 50, IL |
Wow! a lot of thinking going on here. Let's keep our evangelism simple. KISS (Keep It Simple Saints) To change the world's view back to God, revival is needed. There is no way we will convince anyone that they are guilty of sin that they are born with... never! (a gene... a sin nature... etc.) However you define it. The great minds we are born with defies that kind of logic. We know we are not guilty of a crime we did not do (Adam's rebellion) or could not prevent (Adam's genetic tie). (My mother made me do it?) They are just excuses, hiding places for sinners. Our composition of reason, and logic will never accept this untruth. I was guilty of the crimes I made against God. The things I did that were contrary to his rules, laws and government. Every true convert realizes it is my sin that separates me from God and then we come to Christ. Let's not allow any sinner to hide behind any genetic ties. "If you love me... keep my commandments." Our brothers are rignt, the law will bring men to Christ, Preach the law... our schoolmaster. Love God! Obey Him! This truth is bringing revival.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/23/07 03:06:48 PM |
Age 52, FL |
Yes, I agree with you I have homosexual friends that would love for me to put a seal of approval on their life style. I just keep pointing them back to what God says and add you should not be concerned with what I think. It is what God thinks that is important. They hate that. They know what God says and I believe down deep they know they are wrong. We must be careful not to fall into a Satan trap of altering the way we treat them because their sin is visible. It is hard to really love someone who is so wrong, only by God's Grace.
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 09:07:34 PM |
Age 58, GA |
It is certainly time for true Christians to SPEAK OUT AND TELL THE TRUTH. Dr. Mohler is not writing in accordance with God's Holy Word - we can all just wait and see what God does with Dr. Mohler when he takes him to the "woodshed". Hopefully, all believers who read this article are fully versed in the scriptures and realize God's word is inerrant - this man has deviated to the world (Satan).
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Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 08:15:07 PM |
Age 40, MN |
Does Dr. Mohler think being homosexual is in the genes? Absolutely not. He is giving us a "what if" analysis that I have to admit is not one of his best. His article has created alot of confusion and the wording of some of the 10 points has led to more confusion. However, his follow-up article cleared it up for me.
Dr. Mohler was only presenting the facts that he had discovered from several different sources. He is in NO WAY suggesting homosexuality is in the genes. He's trying to show what is happening in the real world today. Dr. Mohler pointed out a research project that is being done today. This study is on sheep. Dr. Mohler says, "Scientists at the U.S. Sheep Experiment Station are conducting research into the sexual orientation of sheep through" 'sexual partner preference testing'." The scientists doing this research really think they can change the sexual orientation of the animals. Not surprisingly, "homosexual activists were among the first to call for (and fund) research into a biological cause of homosexuality."
There's another project that Dr. Mohler lists which is called "Preimplantation Genetic Diagnosis" (PGD). Dr. Mohler says, "this is one of the greatest treats to human dignity in our times. These tests are already leading to the abortion of fetuses identified as carrying unwanted genetic markers. The tests can now check for more than 1,300 different chromosomal abnormalities or patterns. With DNA analysis, the genetic factors could be identified right down to hair and eye color and other traits. The logic is all too simple. If you don't like what you see on the PDG report...just abort and start over. Soon, genetic treatments may allow for changing the profile. Welcome to the world of designer babies." Dr. Mohler throws in a scenario from an issue from Radar magazine, which I think is the reason for some more of the confusion. Here's the scenario from the article. "A woman is told that her unborn baby boy is gay...the woman is then told that a hormone patch on her abdomen will 'reverse the sexual orientation inscribed in his chromosomes'" Dr. Mohler stated in his article that "the Sunday Times (London) predicts that such a patch should be available for use on humans within the decade." This I think is the reason for Dr. Mohler's whole article. Dr. Mohler wants Christians to be prepared for what could happen if we buy into the idea that the world feeds us that being homosexual is in the genes. I think his intention was more of a warning to Christians not to accept the idea that sexual orientation can be changed.
At the end of the day, don't buy into the reasoning the world gives. Stick to the truth of God's Word. Carl
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 03:21:49 PM |
Age 39, CA |
Just God never created nor inserted sin into man's genes (through Adam), he would never insert such a gene. Such a gene "IF" it ever existed would be abnormal as a result of sin, just like all other genetic disorders (e.g. muscular dystrophy, clinical depression, hyperthyroidism, etc.).
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 03:10:04 PM |
Age 39, CA |
Let's agree that because of sin, Adam and his descendants (you and I included) have within each of our genetic codes, timers that set off certain functions -- one of which sets off the process of gradual decay and ultimately the complete cesation of the function of the cells that the genes control.
Do you still believe sin doesn't cause genetic abnormalities that weren't intended by God?
Furthermore, to this day, despite millions and millions of dollars that are spent on research, scientists remain baffled on the idea of reversing the process of death in our genetic code.
Because according to the book of Ecclesiastes, God appointed a day for "EVERY" man (yes, every one that will ever exist) to die, so you can rest assure that God will never go back on His word by allowing man to make this determination through genetic re-engineering.
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Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 02:55:51 PM |
Age 39, CA |
Let's agree that the consequence of sin was death (both spiritual and physical). There is an unknown process in the genes of every cell that, at an appointed time that only God knows, ceases to function and the result is death.
Do you still believe sin doesn't cause genetic abnormalities?
And by the way, medical science has not made any progress, none whatsoever, in reversing the process of dying. Many have tried gene therapy and re-engineering, but the researchers remain perplexed. And don't expect them to make any progress -- God won't allow them the opportunity. Only God's in charge of appointing a time to die. If not, He's a failure. And we know that is not possible. And God won't allow any man to play God, unless it is in God's will (He's in control regardless).
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 02:24:38 PM |
Age 39, CA |
If a gay person says, "It's not my fault, I was born that way," I can reply, "According to Psalm 51 and Romans 5, it's not my fault that I was conceived in sin and condemned to hell before I was even born." But this doesn't mean that I can continue living in my sinful lifestyle (fornication, drunkardness, etc.).
See my point?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 02:17:01 PM |
Age 39, CA |
I never indicated that the possibility of a genetic defect was the cause of homosexuality.
I indicated that no one can rule out the "possibility" of sin (the sin that entered Adam and mankind, which is the cause of a genetic defect in the thyroid gland called hyperthyroidism), causing a defect in the Hypothalamus and Pituitary glands -- which lead to sin. However, this does not justify ANY sin because only the blood of Jesus can do that. Homosexuals, regardless of whether there is a gay gene or not, still need salvation as does any other type of sinner who isn't born again.
This information would not encourage homosexuals to use the gay gene as a means to justify their lifestyle because the Bible clearly indicates that homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom.
A genetic disorder called affective spectrum disorder may link 14 different genetic mental disorders that fall under Anxiety disorders, e.g. Bipolar disorder and clinical depression caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain, or more specifically, a deminished output of serotonin that is below that of the average person. This has been proven. Depression can lead to sinful behaviors like substance abuse and self-destructive behaviors. Aren't these behaviors just as sinful as homosexual acts?
Again I say, the sin we inherited from Adam, which caused the genetic disorders in humanity, can lead to sinful behavior. Charles Spurgeon suffered severe clinical depression to the point that after a sermon he collapsed from an episode of massive depression and had to be carried out of the church building. According to one of his books, this condition caused him to doubt God, and even his own salvation at times. Satan used this condition to mess with Charles Spurgeon -- as, by the way, the messenger from hell buffetted the Apostle Paul.
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 01:02:05 PM |
Age 68, MA |
Since God is not the author of confusion guess who caused the confusion? Dr. Mohler.
There are many brilliant people who read tons of books, retain what they read, write papers, and say wonderful things etc. This does not place them above being wrong. One example of this is the late scientist Carl Sagan who was an atheist, and there are many more such examples. Ministers, teachers, & preachers are called to one thing. Preach the Gospel for it is the power of God onto salvation, not to speculation or what- ifs, which only divert the attention away from the truly critical issue as is so evident in the huge amount of discussion surrounding Mohler's words. Let us attend to God's Word.
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/22/07 12:36:12 PM |
Age 68, MA |
The Great Commission has nothing to do with theorizing about things we know nothing about. That includes speculating about scientific theory around gay genes. The Commission is to preach the Gospel and make diciples period, not cause confusion. The arrogant one is the esteemed Dr. Mohler. He opened his mouth & shoved his whole lower body into it, not just a foot. I don't have the time or patience to sift through any other gobbledygook he has wriiten. Will be too busy engaging in reading what God said in HIS Book. As no doubt has already been said, preach the Gospel, otherwise shut up.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/21/07 10:36:11 PM |
Age 43, NC |
There is no justification of sin before a holy, righteous and just God. Yet the continued quest in hope of finding a "Gay-gene" fuels and reinforces the sinners self justification. "It's not my fault" "I am a victim of my genetic make up." "By the grace of god I am what I am." Such a sin gene would have to be placed in Adam prior to his act of sin and would thereby make God the author of sin. (otherwise how could Adam be predisposed to sin?) Sin exists outside of and apart from genes and genetic markers. So the argument here is over an effect and not the cause. The effect of sin is a contaminated genetic makeup, to say anymore is to open the door for self justification and sin-based behavorial reinforcement.
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/21/07 10:03:44 PM |
Age 43, NC |
Hmmm, The "sin" gene??? Salvation through science. That would certainly take a load of guilt off of us if we could find the gene that causes sin. That would make us victims of a birth defect thereby releasing us from the personal responsibility of sin. Sin was an act of the will, introduced into the human race by the first Adam. Sin changed the nature of man and his relationship with God, his creator. Now for there to be a sin-gene either Adam was given creative powers at the moment he sinned to create in himself such a gene or God created a sin-gene in Adam before He sinned thereby making God the author of sin. Heresy on both counts. The god of modern science would love for us to buy into the DNA "sin-helix" hypothesis. Seminaries will be mapping the sin-geome in search of a cure for sin. Why is it we are so intimited by our culture that we do everything in our power to make the Word of God conform to the science of this world? We are now entertaining the idea that God created a gene that predisposes people to sin, making God the author of sin??? Why are we trying to make excuses for sin? We all have sinned, we are sinners and each of us are guilty and condemned by that sin unless we have been born again, by receiving the gift of God's grace, through faith in the finished work of atonement by Jesus Christ on the cross, and new life by the power of His resurrection from the dead. There is only one cure for sin and that is found in the person of the Lord Jesus Christ. Period!
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Re: Re: Whatever Happened to Sin? ...One Christian Leader Suggests: it Could be in
| Posted On: 03/21/07 09:52:48 PM |
Age 39, KS |
You were doing pretty good until the end. You are right. There is no reason why sin can't be explained by genes of a fallen race--humans. I don't have any problem reconciling the idea that there may be a "gay" gene with the verses that Steve Camp quoted from the Bible. Just because someone has a gene that may pre-dispose them to a certain kind of sin, does not mean that they are exempt from the consequences of that sin. That's why I am so disappointed in the arrogance of Steve Camp's article. But, your post also ended with some concerns. You have quite a theory about the the genetic material being passed from Eve to Mary and it not being imperfect, but I doubt there is much science to support that. So take your own advice, and don't state so matter-of-factly that something is the case, when you don't really know. It's an interesting hyposthesis, but it may end up making you look stupid in the end.
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