Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/19/07 11:45:04 AM |
Age 53, PA |
Many Biblical teachings command us as parents that raising our children in the fear of the Lord is mandated by God and the direct responsibility of the parents, not the "whole village ", the church, or any members of the church.
As parents of true Christian faith, what is our ultimate goal? What is the most important thing in our life? Unwillingness to experience a salary cut? or loosing our earthly possesions? or directly and responsibly raising our children in the fear of the Lord?
This is the land of opportunities and choices.
Any choice we make has consequences.
By the way, "the whole village" has many non-truebelievers,pedofiles, rapists, adulters,..... The church is like a Noah Ark which can contain a lot of filth, sick people, and sheep in wolf's skin,...
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Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/19/07 11:30:54 AM |
Age 24, WA |
I don't think the author was attacking a certain work ethic or lifestyle, he was pointing out our responsibility in giving our children biblical training. My husband is full-time military and is gone for months at a time. He is leaving for 18 months in a week. The point is not how much time you spend together, the point is using the time you have to uphold biblical teaching and family worship. We have the tendency to expect the church to do that for us. We need to take responsibility first, and let the church be our encouragement, our supplemental resource, not our main one.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/19/07 09:52:48 AM |
Age 42, TN |
One solution to this could be family bible studies. There is a great series being done by "In His Heart and Hand Ministries," written by Mary Bironas.
I've sat in classes of 35 to 75 people who came as families and interacted and studied together. The age range was about 8 yrs old to 62 yrs old.
It works.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/19/07 09:03:27 AM |
Age 43, MD |
I believe that the organization called the church is at fault. Our church promotes busyness for the parents...you MUST meet for smallgroup, women's Bible study, men's Bible study, segregated Sunday Schools etcetera. WHEN do we have TIME to actually spend with our families? My son once observed to me sarcastically "why don't we call the deacons?" when I was having trouble and my husband (a deacon busy at church) was not there for me. I am a woman, and my opinion does not matter in our denomination.
My husband also works 14 hour days. I am like a single parent, stressing and burning out as I try to homeschool my kids and raise them properly with not enough support. What can I do?
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/18/07 07:12:20 PM |
Age 58, MN |
As a former youth pastor and homeschooling father of 9 (with 3 still at home),it was refreshing to hear someone say the things I was saying 25 years ago. We sacrificed the prospect for a high paying job by leaving the city for a small town/rural community and church life that didn't pull our children in every which way but towards us. We have never regretted that decision and have seen the fruit in the lives of our children. Even so, some have made poor choices along the way. They like to point out that THEY were responsible for those decisions, not their parents, but my one regret is that, as I trained them how to get my direction and give me their obedience, I failed to direct them to seek the Lord with their own hearts. No matter where you live or what your church or circumstances, without modeling a heart of love that wants to please the Lord above all else, we can achieve outward obedience while at home and still lose them to the world's ways and attractions when they decide to leave. "Give me your heart, my son." Prov. 23:26
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Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/18/07 06:46:55 PM |
Age 51, MX |
Great article and about time...opened my eyes to my failure as a parent as to my responsibility, no matter how "busy" i am...gives me incentive to go for it, possibly organizing families of the Chrisitan friends of my daughters to have us all meet together (teenagers and parents alike) for worship, the Word, and fun together!!! Thank you!
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Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/18/07 04:12:41 PM |
Age 25, KS |
I can tell you from experience that spending time with like minded people got me into more trouble than anything else. I did more with my church friends than with my non-church friends that I shouldn't have done because I figured if other believers had done it, then I could be forgiven for it as well. Take it from someone who is young and not too long ago left the youth group mentality. I have seen more damage done by church kids behaving like the rest of the world than just about anything else. I watched some youth group friends of mine explain to a new Christian that they partied and it wasn't a big deal, and this girl stopped coming to church. Can you blame her? These were Christian kids from Christian families. I'm pretty sure it wasn't just my youth group either taking into consideration all the students leaving the church as they enter college. It's an epidemic, and what we've done for the last decades obviously isn't working.
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Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/18/07 01:44:45 PM |
Age 48, NC |
I have twelve children, aged 4 to 28. When my husband and I had our first four children, he was getting his painting company going and would work long hours. Several nights a week, I was putting the children to bed by myself.
I prayed with the kids and taught them scripture as part of their homeschool.
My husband was soon convicted by the Holy Spirit to be home with his kids at night and to let God grow his business. He taught the kids the Bible and what it is to walk with God.
We both found that the key isn't to be a "Sunday School teacher" at home, teaching "lessons" and memorizing Bible verses, but rather, teaching the children to FOLLOW God themselves. Whether you send your kids to Sunday School (we didn't) or only teach them yourself, the Christian life cannot be boiled down to a program. It has to have Life! We study the Bible alone and together to find out what God is saying to us---not to teach a "lesson".
We prayed with our children and for them. Some nights, my husband would go into their rooms and lay hands on the kids, praying for guidance for each one.
My husband was great about teaching our kids and teens along the lines of Deuteronomy 6, ALWAYS talking to them about Jesus and what life is all about---in the car, at the dinner table, on the way to bed, going to work--everywhere! We talk openly about , , temptation, bullies, cliques, love, hate, birth, , everything.
And it has worked. My kids all know and want to know God better all the time. Their hearts are completely His---and I am so grateful!
My husband died last year at 49 years old. I still have five kids to raise.
So, once again, I am doing it alone. But, God is more than faithful. He has sustained all of us with a very strong sense of His Presence and Love.
You can do it, even when you're "only one person" because "greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world". God will give you the guidance and the strength you need as long as you are setting the example and seeking Him with all of your heart yourself!
God bless you.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/18/07 08:58:22 AM |
Age 41, CA |
What about commuting families? Families like mine whose husbands are gone 13-14 hours a day?
It is so easy for others, especially those living in other states, to make very casual comments about "finding another job." We are barely making ends meet, and if my husband were to find a job in our area he would lose so much salary that we would lose our house. If we were to move closer to his work house prices go up by the hundreds of thousands. Where we live in So. CA a cheap area of homes are $500,000.
I am grateful for the mentors we have in our church; the adults that assist me in the godly raising of my children. If it weren't for them, I would be doing this completely alone. I can only do so much! I am only one person.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 10:11:49 PM |
Age 39, AL |
AMEN!
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Re: Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 08:47:59 PM |
Age 55, TX |
yes--thank you: you,ll notice even in villages away from "christian vaccination programs" the difference between light and dark is a clear line --and the light drives the dark--the new lives of the youth in christ will hold up to the dark offered them and the Truth drives their coming together for Commonality-communion---they are driven by Life to gather[parents and youth] instead of driven to gather to show and tell Life--oh, Lord i am sorry for missing my three babies-27/25/23 years old in some of their years--your Mercy come to us in our man made drives looking for Life--
my heart hurts, but thanks for the article.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 07:43:27 PM |
Age 61, MD |
Thank you for this article. It needs to be said. As I am in the "over 60" group, I have observed and been involved in youth ministries over the years. I don't see "youth ministry" per se in scripture. I see families. God placed us in families - the older teaching the younger - The Titus 2 principle, for sure. Do we want our children coming to us, confiding in us, or to the youth minister? Do we want our children following their peers or godly parents? Overarching all of this is: Parents have the responsibility before God to raise up their children in the nuture and admonition of the Lord. May God help us parents and grandparents to do what God has called us to do - pray and work (by God's grace and His power) for the night is coming.
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Re: Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 07:31:38 PM |
Age 61, MD |
As I fall into the over 60 category, I come from the perspective of having seen the pros and cons of youth ministry. I do believe we have to take into consideration those families in our congregations where the children would be shall we say spiritually "at risk;" however, is having a youth ministry the answer? I think not. I don't see youth minisry, per se in scripture. God instituted the family and the church. Families, I believe, should come alongside families, and within that, the Titus 2 principle of the older women coming alongside the younger, and older men coming alongside the younger. Yes, this takes work and commitment, BUT we must approach it by depending upon the Holy Spirit to use us for God's glory and the good of those to whom we are reaching out. Church history has proven that youth ministry on the whole has failed. Shouldn't we allow history to teach us something?! May God have mercy on us!
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Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 06:35:42 PM |
Age 43, FL |
This is an excelent article! We are home schoolers, and for this very reason. We don't "outsource" anything from Siritual teaching to academics; charachter training to cooking and cleaning & serving. We teach it all by leading and by example. We feel very strongly that many parents are also outsourcing their children's education (& many other things) so they can have the nicer car and the bigger house and all the bells and whistles that a second or third income provides. Not all parents work for the perks, but many do. Your children will not remember the "stuff". They will remember what you did with them and the time you spent with them. No one knows your child better than you and no one is more capable of teaching them everthing they need to know to be a productive part of society. Bring them home.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 05:57:50 PM |
Age 51, MN |
The article fails to take into acount divided households. What happens when one parent is trying to disciple the children but the other parent is apathetic and uninvolved?
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Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 04:21:31 PM |
Age 35, GA |
You are correct in saying that programs are not the problem. Parents are the problem. What the article was saying is that church programs exacerbate the problem by assuming the parenting role--but only because parents have absconded THEIR responsiblity. I know how hard it is to raise godly children--we are raising six of them. I totally agree with the post above that said homeschooling or truly Christian private school is part of the answer. However, even homeschooling one's children will not solve the problem if parents do not fulfill their responsibility to mentor, train and teach their own children. I know many homeschooled children who are equally as ignorant of God's Word and who are equally as swayed by the desires and demands of our culture as their public school counter-parts. The battle begins with the parents and whether or not God has first priority in THEIR lives.
We make it a priority to begin each day with Bible reading, family worship in song, corporate prayer time where we lift up specific requests for others outside our own family, and finally, the reading of a chapter from one of our books by Christian authors. My eighteeen, eleven, ten and eight year olds are all currently reading with me from Elisabeth Elliot's "Passion and Purity" and Joni Eareckson's "A Step Further". These are weighty books, and they address real world temptations for which I want my children to be prepared. We no longer look for church programs or big youth groups or glitzy special events. We want a church that teaches the WORD of God. We will do the rest at home. That is our job--it is the reason God gave us our precious children--to train them in the way they should go. If all parents were willing to make the sacrifices necessary to truly train their own children, we would see a radically different church!
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Re: Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 03:31:08 PM |
Age 56, NY |
Sorry to make it too simple but you may already have it all - the Bible and knowledge and wisdome from having read it many times! Quit looking for something else and get to work!
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 03:29:07 PM |
Age 56, NY |
Good article, but I'd go further with it. What ever reason is there for a youth pastor in the beginning when in a Chriatian home there are 2 already there and several more in the extended family and friends. Like he said, why pay someone for part-time questionable work when you can do it better and cheaper yourself - more satisfying too. Our 3 in college, teaching Sunday school, in Bible study groups, considering the mission field for careers. We weren't perfect parents but had help from family and friends, had no TV in the home, played games at night, applied scriptures to daily issues. Parents have been raising good kids for generations, it is not rocket science if you stay traditional, (and scriptural)!
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 03:19:14 PM |
Age 51, AR |
As a father of four and a youth pastor, I've been on both sides of the issue.
Unfortunately, every poll of so-called born-again American Christians reveals that most think and act like heathen. As William Wilberforce would say, most Americans are merely cultural Christians. This changes the debate. A heathen will likely raise his kids with just enough religion to damn them to hell. (Excuse my hate speach.) To say it's better for a cow to be milked with human hands doesn't mean that milk derived another way is not also beneficial. And that's not a Mooooot point.
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Re: Don't Give Spiritual Custody of Your Children to The Church
| Posted On: 03/17/07 12:39:49 PM |
Age 41, NY |
amen and amen! we must not forget that 'our enemy prowls around, seeking whom he may devour'. Jesus warned us to be sober and alert at all times... and that our enemies would be WITHIN our own household! the 'church' today, when run the world's way instead of God's way, IS the enemy's effective tool for deceiving us, dividing families, and luring us into complacency. let all those with 'eyes to see and ears to hear' the Great Shepherd help others to see it too. praise the Lord, who CAN and WILL turn the hearts of fathers back to their families, as it should be. shame on 'churches' who are the 'servants of satan' who take the parents out of their homes to 'serve' in church, and who take the children away from the parents to 'indoctrinate them' and usurp the authority of the parents. for those of us with children still at home - it is never too late to make a decision to do things God's way... He is good and will redeem our mistakes as we obey and move forward. thank you, Jesus!
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