Re: Europe and America Are in Grave Danger So Are You!
| Posted On: 03/21/07 10:38:59 AM |
Age 51, AZ |
You are incorrect - Christians are not in danger. If anything, we are one step closer to Heaven. Until then, we are invincible to death. Yes, we can be physically hurt and maimed and crippled, but we are promised that we will face trials and tribulations. No where are we promised a problem free lives or an insulated existence from concern. Rather, we are promised that we will face hardships and perhaps even painful death just as the disciples and Paul did. Where did you get the idea that Christians should be worried about things of this world in this manner? Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world. His Kingdom, the one Christians have a part in, will come after this world is past and the new comes. The Bible is two-thirds prophesy with 50% already fulfilled and the other half to go. Christians, grounded in the Bible and in faith in God and Jesus, have nothing to fear. As Jim Elliot, who later exchanged his earthly life for Heaven, said, He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose. If no one can keep this short existence on earth and real Christians can never lose their eternal life in Heaven and in Jesus Kingdom, why should Christians worry about anything you presented? Real Christians should not if they are truly grounded in their faith in God and Jesus.
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Re: Re: Re: Europe and America Are in Grave Danger So Are You!
| Posted On: 03/20/07 04:30:41 PM |
Age 19, VA |
This country was definitely not founded on biblical ideas. There was even a letter to a Muslim group in the colonies from the founders saying there intention was never to have a christian nation. Furthermore, the idea of separation of church and state appears twice in the constitution, in the form of forbidding religious tests for qualification of government jobs in the main body of the constitution, and in the first amendment. protecting religion from the state is the same thing as protecting the state from religion, as the intermingling of the two from either direction leads to the same outcome: a society thats oppresses certain individuals. Also on the idea of a secular government from the founding fathers, its important to note that God appears no where in the constitution, and the declaration, with its deist view of god, hold no legal power. Things like property rights came from the writings of John Locke (as did almost everything in our government) and the housing of soldiers or search and seizure (I'm assuming you're referring to one of these with the assertion that we may protect our families) reflects a solution to problems faced by the people of the time with Brittain in charge, as did the call for a free press, since revolutionary literature faced censorship. The newer laws that christians have pushed for would include various types of censorship, obviously wrong as ideas must be free and not suppressed. As to abortion, there is no constitutional stance either way, and the debate on what is life, murder, womens rights and the implications of all these are beyond the scope of this response, so Ill save it for another time. Homosexuality cannot be banned, as the bible has no legal power, and if it did, we would also have to ban shrimp and pork, stone rebellious sons to death, jail women with braided hair, and any other number of ridiculous and outdated ideas.
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Re: Europe and America Are in Grave Danger So Are You!
| Posted On: 03/16/07 10:19:57 PM |
Age 47, MO |
Ted Baehr, I agree with your article. Unfortunately, too many of our fellow Christians have chosen to waste their money on the worthless, faith-without-works ministries of people who claim to know a time period when the Rapture will happen, such as Creflo Dollar, Mike Bickle, Jack Van Impe, Dave Hunt, Mary Stewart Relfe, John Hagee, Texe Marrs, and Hal Lindsey. Those Rapture Gnostics waste too much time making weasel-wordy promises of an imminent Rapture, and they certainly rake in the dough.
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Re: Re: Europe and America Are in Grave Danger So Are You!
| Posted On: 03/16/07 03:00:51 PM |
Age 49, TX |
The laws we have (or at least had prior to the beginning of our 40+ year reign of judicial tyranny) are largely based on Christian principles so I don't think your argument has much merit. The freedom of speech...the freedom to protect yourself and family...freedom of the printing press...and a number of others. Please be more specific about what 'restrictions that certain Christians want'. Are you talking about abortion? Well, when has murder been legal? Gay marriage? Look what the Bible says about sodomy! Separation of church and state? That idea isn't even in the constitution (it came from a letter by Jefferson to a Baptist church). Nowhere did any of the Founding Fathers say that a Christian lawmaker's convictions should not drive his decisions. They simply did not want a state-mandated religion, which idea comes directly from the principle of Christian liberty. You are right in one aspect of what you said - because God built man the way he did, religion (i.e faith) will ALWAYS affect law, whether for righteousness or for unrighteousness. Jesus said "if ye shall know the truth the truth shall make you free". Therefore, unless the law in question is rooted in Truth man will never be free.
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Re: Europe and America Are in Grave Danger So Are You!
| Posted On: 03/16/07 12:56:16 PM |
Age 26, TX |
I agree with the above post--it's not the media's fault that Christians are succumbing to humanistic thinking. Since when did God relegate spiritual influence to the media? Also, Baehr repeatedly mentions "Christian Europe." Does that include the 90+% of white Europeans who are non-practicing Catholics? From what I can tell, there is no Christian Europe and there hasn't been for decades.
The members of Christ's church in Europe will not succumb to falsehood--whether from postmodernism or from Islam. They will stand strong even though faced with a wave of falsehood. However, the "Christian Europe" that Baehr refers to cannot be included in this number.
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Re: Europe and America Are in Grave Danger So Are You!
| Posted On: 03/16/07 11:42:51 AM |
Age 19, VA |
I don't like the imposition that religious muslim law can only be staved off by religious christian law. religious law is not compatible with freedom. many of the restrictions that certain christians want are the same as sunni law that rules parts of the mideast. It seems the problem doesn't go away by introducing the same problem under a different name.
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Re: Europe and America Are in Grave Danger So Are You!
| Posted On: 03/16/07 09:27:31 AM |
Age 49, TX |
I agree with most of what Mr. Baehr says...indeed we must see the need and danger about us, act in accordance with biblical principles, share our faith, and seek within the jurisdiction given us to stand for truth. However, there are two things I didn't see in this article. First, there is the idea that "judgement begins in the house of God". We've got to clean our own house...to take the beam out of our own eye to see clearly to cast the mote out of our brother's eye. And, most importantly, to cast down the things that exalt themselves against the knowledge of God and, in turn, bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ. The second idea is somewhat similar. Mr. Baehr holds to the idea (assuming this from his ministry association) that movies can be a valid form of entertainment. Now, before anyone jumps on my case I do want to say that a movie in and of itself is NOT sinful. But, how we've 'yielded' ourselves to that form of amusement is not only sinful (tolerating some level of evil for fleshly gratification) but also extremely dangerous (the whole idea of amusement by the definition of the word...a-muse, or 'not think' - to what are we subjecting ourselves and to who's teaching are we listening? Did anybody read Ray Comfort's article the other day?). Until we disaffect ourselves from this fleshly attraction and thereby truly be able to discern how to approach the idea of what constitues 'Christian-friendly' activities of this sort, we will not only continue to be blinded, but also provide a stumblingblock for future generations.
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Re: Europe and America Are in Grave Danger So Are You!
| Posted On: 03/16/07 05:47:27 AM |
Age 47, NC |
Sorry to disagree with you. The "mass media" is not to blame. The church, God's people are to blame. It is our fault.
2 Chronicles 7:14 does not
say that if God's people can get the mass media to do the right thing, etc, etc..... The truth is that the church collectively abandoned the realm of ideas and thought over two hundred years ago. In doing so we surrendered the process of educating our children to humanists. This allowed the world that God created to begin defining itself, creating arbitrary laws to govern those created in God's image and setting it's own parameters for interpreting the physical realm.
We, God fearing americans, would have changed this world if we'd have had the guts to pull our children out of the pagan schools the day the U S Supreme court ruled prayer unconstitutional, and to have never sent them back. 2 Chronicles 7:14 calls on us to turn from our evil ways. How much longer will we surrender our children to the godless system of public education? When will we wake up and realize what we have done? Why are churches silent on this?
The problem is that no one ever got their head cut off or was burned alive by doing what was culturally normal. Doing the right thing will force change but not before an awful lot of persecution. I suspect we fear men more than God.
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