Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/16/07 08:54:13 PM |
Age 51, OH |
How sad. Until "man's" view of God is enlarged (and God reveals Himself...His righteousness...His sovereignty to us in His word) "man" will continue, in his pride, to think he has the power to save people through gimmicks. Jesus said "no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him...They will all be taught by God. Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from Him comes to Me." John 6:44,45.
Certainly, man has a part in sharing the gospel and leading others to Christ, but as is usually the case, when we draw upon worldly wisdom (trying to impress or entertain people, offering them things that are "pleasing" to the eye, supplying every amenity possible to coerce participation) we will continue to distract people from what we say we are trying to draw them to...Christ. Instead their thinking will be dulled and the lie of Satan will permiate their minds...life is about "me." Until we come to a place where we understand life is about God and His puposes, not ours, we'll continue to use superficial, man made methods, that lead nowhere. May He have mercy on us all.
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Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/16/07 05:14:34 PM |
Age 26, SD |
I think the amount of feedback this article has received is almost as hilarious as advertising the can-decor as an incentive to go to church.
I was in a bathroom at a bordertown gas station a few days ago. It was nothing to brag about... maybe this church should try that route... have a restroom so horrible you'll hold it through the sermon and wait till you get home to play with your Nascar stickers.
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/16/07 05:01:05 PM |
Age 26, SD |
Top work! But did your church remember to make it the focal point of their ministry?
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Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/16/07 12:08:31 PM |
Age 39, CA |
I hope everyone who has something negative to say about:
1) People who attend a Christian congregation to be entertained.
2) People who attend a Christian congregation to entertain others.
and
3) The manner in which people evangelize
are doing more for Christ then writing their opinions. If this is all they're doing, at least those who are doing something are just sitting around and writing their opinions.
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Re: Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/16/07 11:53:39 AM |
Age 39, CA |
Point 1) The 5000 were not all followers:
Jn 6:26, "Jesus answered them and said, 'Most assuredly I say to you, you seek Me not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.'" And, Jn 6:66, "From that time, many of His followers went back and walked with Him no more."
Point 2) Jesus knew who were His and who were not His:
Jn 6:64, ...for Jesus knew who they were who did not believe.
Point 3) Not all the people who literally followed Jesus left Him on the following day. Jn 6:66 indicates "many," not all, left. This is why I say, Jesus used food to attract the interest of those who were His to return on the following day, during which He separated the chaff (majority) from the wheat.
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Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/16/07 10:52:56 AM |
Age 46, MO |
Ii really enjoyed reading all the feedback on this article, it is good to see all the passion- some of it misplaced- but passioned non-the-less.
It seems to me that all error starts when we get away from the character of God and then make God in our image. God is Holy, God is Truth, God is Lord of all, and God is Just.
Since Jesus's love IS obedience to the cross (Not my will, but Thy will be done) and our love is submission (If you love me you WILL keep my commands, then the greatest commands still hold true:
God first, Servitude second, and be holy as I am holy- die to self.
However we replaced them with the 11th and 12th commands of Becoming all things to all people and Do not judge.
Indeed America is paying the price for our ignorance and social gospel of tolerance and personal satisfaction. We are become like Anna Nichole Smith, rotting from the inside out- rather than being salt and light and confronting the culture of SELF.
jchristco@earthlink.net
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/16/07 10:51:10 AM |
Age 46, IA |
Have you never read the account of Elijah and the 450 prophets of Baal. How he mocked and made fun of them and their god. Our modern translations clean up what was said in the original language. We use phrases like, "has he turned aside?" What Elijah was saying was more like, whats wrong is your god stuck on the can? Even that is sanitized. From what I've seen the orignal is even more crass. The scripture makes it abundantly clear God mocks and makes fun of his enemies. While you can make the case that these people are not His enemies. They are not faithful friends if they were they would read His word and obey it by PREACHING repentence and the gospel not decorating their bathrooms.
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/16/07 10:47:20 AM |
Age 39, CA |
I remember a time when I attended a church service once a week, and thought I was pleasing God by going because I was sacrificing myself on Sunday mornings. On Sunday, I had to wake up early when others were sleeping from a wild Saturday night -- include me in those Saturday night escapades. During these services, I would check out the girls, and wonder what they were really like when no one was watching. I would observe the musicians and singers during worship and look at what they were wearing, the instruments they were playing, and sometimes would be mesmerized by their talent. I would look around and observe the people who seemed to be in some sort of trance, resembling, at time those Hare Krishna followers you see in the street dancing with their tambourines. I would sit through a sermon (filled with unintelligible language mostly because of my semiconscious state) that to me were painfully long. What did I get from these sermons? I now know how to enter into a deep sleep sitting up. But I was aware of my apathy and lack of interest in eternal matters, thanks to a few words from the preacher that got through the clogged filters in my mind. But my conscience was eased by thinking that religion had to wait because I was too young and had too many wild oats to sow. Maybe in a few years when I was married and had a family and no longer desired the wild and fun-filled life to which I had become accustomed.
I was blind, couldn't hear, and had no hunger for the Lord because I was dead in my sins. And, according to Romans 8:7, I was an enemy of God (I just thought I would use Him to keep me out of hell) and I didn't want to follow His Word because I couldn't. I was living a lifestyle that involved the abuse of kind-hearted people who only wanted to love me. My god was my ego and if anyone didn't like it, they knew where the door was. The thought that Jesus would have mercy on me was farther than any conceivable thought. And to make matters worse I couldn't live like a Christian, so I didn't even try to do so. But how could I? I was in love with myself and only used God as I was using everyone else in my life -- for my pleasure and benefit.
But one day, at the age of 33, the Lord bestowed His loving Grace on me, was merciful on my sinful past, washed me clean of all the dross that began with Adam and ended with me. His righteousness, not mine, was imputed on me. I was made perfect as He was, not for what I had or had not done, but simply because of His mercy (Titus 3:4-5).
Just as Jesus had compassion on us, we should have compassion on these people who go to a church service to entertain others and to be entertained. There is no need to experience any discomfort because of their condition -- be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God (Phil 4:6). Don't just express your discontent with their conduct, express your compassion for them and pray for them also.
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Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 11:05:56 PM |
Age 47, MN |
Um, we remodeled our bathrooms to make them handicapped accessible, shame on us. We also put a baby changing station in the womens room - shame on us for stooping so low. But give us credit for not putting a baby changing station in the men's room cause we know diaper changing is the mom's job.
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 10:37:26 PM |
Age 32, TX |
I can understand your offense to Todd's sarcastic approach. But, his approach is not without precident. If I understand him correctly Todd views these bathroom decorators as preachers of a false gospel. I think he rightly interprets their method as being based on modern marketing methods rather than biblical evangelism. So I don't blame him for calling a "brood of vipers" by name. You see, church is for Christians, not for the lost. When is the last time you read anything in the Word about an alter call? You haven't, because it was invented by well-intentioned preachers in the 19th century. Church is for edification of the body of Christ, so that body can go out and be the arms, hands, legs, and feet which carry the gospel to the world in which we live. When the Holy Spirit brings a lost person to saving grace with our obedient evangelistic efforts then that person should be welcomed into the fellowship of believers, but not before. I agree with the other responder to your post, if a lost person gets soundly saved in a church service AWESOME! But the biblical method of one-to-one evangelism can not be done away with. We as a Christ loving people have too long relied on our pastors to reach the lost when we should have been doing it all along, and then introducing the new believer to the pastor and congregation. So rather than spend our money on bathroom decorations, lets invest it into ministry to the poor, discipleship of the believers, and relief for the hurting. Just my thoughts on the matter, not a theologian by any means. You should listen to Todd's radio show every now and then, he really seems like a funny guy who is committed to seeing the lost get soundly saved.
God bless,
Kris
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Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 09:44:54 PM |
Age 51, AZ |
Todd, great article!. Talk about stumbling around trying to get a captive audience (at least for a spell). This is another example of Satans success in leading many of todays churches astray! They no longer gather to worship and exalt God, but gather together to entertain one another for a few hours and then retreat to their secular world until next Sunday morning. No wonder no one at those churches are working at evangelizing since those church bodies are focused primarily on themselves and not on God. Did they forget that they are to gather together to worship and exalt God? Are they trying to cram a weeks worth of prayer and one way spiritual relationship into a few moments just as children do for their annual wish-list visit with Santa? Whatever, it isnt working.
Hopefully, those who what to punish you, the messenger, for bringing the truth will instead be led to the true understanding that God must be the churchs first focus with Jesus our Savior as the only true drawing card for no one can come to the Father except through Jesus. Please keep up the good work! Thanks.
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Re: Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 09:37:20 PM |
Age 54, FL |
From what I read here most of the criticism isn't about the restroom in question, it's about other unproven violations such as watering down the gospel. Has it actually been shown that these bathroom blasphemers have committed these other offenses? No! They are just made up to bolster a pathetically weak argument. Again, it's the Christian Army lining it's own most effective warriors up against the wall of legalism and opening fire. When the Savior who hung out with prostitutes and tax collectors in order to reach them (before they were believers, I think) finally passes out the "well dones", I'd sure like to be there to see who gets theirs; the guys with the bathroom and a few saved sinners, or the critics and their poison pens.
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Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 06:27:42 PM |
Age 38, IA |
Well, this is nothing new in Christian evangilism. So many evangelists have tried to use the "If you become a Christian, you'll be rich and things will go well for you" routine for years. The men's room routine is a bit of a fresh twist on this, I must admit.
This reminds me of when Simon the magician offered money to Peter and John to lay hands on him so he would recieve the Holy Spirit. This is clearly a case of someone wanting a good spiritual thing but going about it in all the wrong way. In fact, Simon did this because he had evil intent, as Peter pointed out.
Many would desire for churches to be filled with the converted, but they are unwilling to do it in the way that God has prescribed. Do we want to bring glory to God, or to ourselves? Offering the unconverted a bribe to enter a church or convert to Christianity is not demonstrating a true faith in the power of God.
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 05:16:50 PM |
Age 38, CA |
Love it!
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Re: Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 04:33:43 PM |
Age 39, CA |
In Greece, Paul used logical reasoning to attract the attention of Dionysius and Damaris. Once he had their attention, he then presented the Gospel, through which both became saved.
Please read Acts 17:22-34.
Thanks.
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Re: Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 04:28:55 PM |
Age 39, CA |
Allow me to answer your question regarding Jesus' statement that "no one can come to me unless my Father draw them to me." with a question.
How did God the father draw Dionysius and Damaris to become believers?
Hint: Through Paul's use of logical reasoning in Acts 17:22-34.
Don't be too sure of yourself without deep study.
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 04:12:15 PM |
Age 20, CO |
Sir, I agree with the author of the article on how the churches of this day are using whatever means, no matter how low or what the cost, just to "bring people to the Lord". The only way that you could rightfully say that Jesus used whatever He could to bring people the Truth would be in what He talked about. But it is not in the way that you are suggesting. He would CONDEMN homosexuality, blasphemy, adultery, etc. and in that way, He would bring controversial issues up but He never encouraged the filth and the sin. He CONDEMNED it. Why should someone want to "accept Christ" if they can do things once they have supposedly "accepted Christ" that they did anyways without Him? What difference would there be in a professed Christian life or in a secular life accept for making a mockery of it? It would be better for the churches to follow the whole Bible and see few come to the full understanding and personal relationship with Christ than for them to use one or two verses that have been taken in the wrong context so that they correspond with whatever they want....and have that bring multitudes of "professing" yet extremely weak "Christians" into the churches. The Lord will bring those who are called when He so plans. Our many, many futile attempts to "bring people to the Lord" are mostly wishy-washy "covered in grace no matter what" or "just believe in God" statements and will not bring people into a saving relationship with the Lord. What good is it to just believe? Even demons believe and shudder.
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 03:08:37 PM |
Age 40, FL |
AMEN!!!!!!
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 03:03:18 PM |
Age 40, FL |
Actually most of the bible is written for Christians. Yes the church is for Christians so they can learn to be better equipped to go and share the gospel. If a lost person is at church and responds to the message being preached then praise God. Think about it. When Jesus gave the Sermon on the Mount, who was he talking to, his Disciples or the people gathered around him? I will tell you....His disciples (matt 5).How about Ephesians, especially chapter one, who was that written to? I will tell you...To the SAINTS, at Ephesus. The only thing I see written to the lost man in the bible is "Repent or Parish" Todd is right on dude!!!!
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Re: Re: The Potty Driven Life
| Posted On: 03/15/07 01:53:03 PM |
Age 41, MN |
I think that's "TONY STEWART'S very own fat head."
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