Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/17/07 05:56:31 PM |
Age 30, IN |
I don't understand the point of Sharman's article. Is Sharman really trying to get us to dislike the ACLU by pointing out misdeeds of some of its leaders? Is Sharman completely oblivious to the misdeeds of prominent Christian leaders? Does he not understand just how poor and irrelevant this kind of thinking really is? "[Fill in name of your favorite fallen Christian leader] did something Really Bad. Therefore, Christianity is Really Bad." A very poor argument indeed; but I can't detect anything different going on in Sharman's article: "ACLU Leaders X and Y did something Really Bad. Therefore, the ACLU is an abomination." If we had reason to think that the ACLU ENDORSED the Really Bad things these leaders did; or that commitment to the ACLU's ideals was at least partly causally responsible for their misdeeds; or that believing what the ACLU stands for is conceptually connected to (endorsing, engaging in) pedophilia, pornography, etc., then Sharman might actually have something useful to say. So...can he (or anyone) offer such reasons? Otherwise, this article is just another cheap ad hominem, akin to the "Haggard the Hypocrite" silliness that infected the public consciousness a while back.
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Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/12/07 07:32:00 PM |
Age 19, VA |
It has already been said, but it is sad to see in the first example given as a hit against the ACLU because of the actions of one member. If there were some example of the ACLU promoting child pornography in any of its public positions, then you may have a case.
The second example is just raising more wind about a non-issue. The cross is still available to anyone who arranges to use the church and asks for the cross. Non-religious functions that go on in the church are just absent of a religious icon. And the president of W&M is one of the most respected and effective leaders in virginia, and, short of his own decisions he won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
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Re: Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/07/07 11:28:53 PM |
Age 30, MO |
Terrorist organization? When is the last time that the ACLU took repsonsibility for a bombing? Or endorsed one? And why is it a legitimate rhetorical tactic to assume that one person (the pedophile) is representative of the entire organization when it's the ACLU, but the same people shriek with outrage if one dares say that Ted Haggart is representative of the entire Christian movement? (Hint: It's not. It's a logical fallacy of mistaking the part for the whole, a species of gross overgeneralization.) As a member of the ACLU, I would go to the mat to see that you get to worship any way you please. It's really one of the few things that I would die for: that and the right for anyone to say whatever they want without restrictions. I mean, don't expect me to be out at the barracades, like, tomorrow, or anything (haha), but I'm dead serious: I wouldn't willingly let anyone impinge on your right to exercise your religious conscience. People never seem to recognize how often the ACLU goes to bat for Christians all the time: "NATCHITOCHES, LA - The American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana today announced a federal court's decision in its free speech lawsuit on behalf of Christian protester Edwin Crayton, whose rights were violated by Natchitoches' unconstitutional permit requirements. In October of 2006, Crayton peacefully picketed for about 40 minutes on a public sidewalk in Natchitoches with a sign that said: "Christians: Wal-Mart Supports Gay Lifestyles And Marriage. Don't Shop There." He was then approached by a Natchitoches police officer who refused to allow him to continue protesting without obtaining a permit. Despite the passage of several weeks after application for a permit, the mayor failed to approve Crayton's request, which resulted in the ACLU of Louisiana lawsuit." To imagine that the ACLU is a communist instrument, or atheist or the embodiment of whatever boogyman you happen to dislike is simply way, way too simple.
HJ hjop.blogspot.com
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Re: Re: Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/07/07 11:09:29 PM |
Age 30, MO |
It's not "pro" or "anti" religion. The whole point is let people practice religion however they singly or collectively see fit. Or not at all, if they swing that way. But they can't sponsor religion in any way-- maintaining a religious chapel which is clearly and exclusively Christian, it's just not something that the govt wants to get involved with. It's the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. There is no other way to read the Constitution (I've tried using the OED--every contemporary usage of every word in that clause is unambiguous). A strict reading of the Constitution clearly says that government does not get involved with religion. And God bless the framers for their foresight. The dirty exhibit, though many may find it distasteful, is not an expression of religion; the cross, however, can only be a religious reference. Why should Muslims or Jews or atheists be required to pay for the upkeep of a Christian chapel? True, America is a place where Christianity in all its forms and expressions can flourish, but only because the government does not push or favor any one version of any one religion. So many people refer to the Declaration of Independance as their source of endorsing a deity, but the Declaration was a political document, not a legal one. It set out a rhetorical argument for a controversial subject--whether or not to split from England--and not everyone was keen on the idea (there were a LOT of business and cultural ties to England). So, they used the unifying, universal appeals to make their case. In the end, though, they intended to make a case about the course of human events, not about the theological stance of the fledgling nation. Thus endeth the lesson, and God Bless the ACLU :) HJ hjhop.blogspot.com
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Good. So what shall we do?
| Posted On: 03/07/07 09:44:57 PM |
Age 56, OR |
Good statements! Thanks...
If you look at the FBI's "possible terror suspect" list you will see CHRISTIANS mentioned along with Al Q. etc. Someone has been very busy in high office pulling our teeth before they have even started to grow back. These 'ones' are not in the least phased by the ACLU crying wolf over sheep and swallowing dangerous social monsters wholesale. Do not be afraid of the 'doom-sayers'. They are the gutless pawns of this humanist-run society we find ourselves paying for. The media plays the ghastly tune; every sop that watches and hip-hops to its mantra becomes more boiled in their own juices. Soon they will be ripe, cooked, safely disarmed and mindless enough to sell their own children for another hand-out (and not even notice).
When women begin to run the show and men hide behind their suits muttering 'yes ma'am', you know that soon something really radical is going to happen. Of course, no written spoken or electronically communicated concept can be polarised now due to the sophistication of our paranoia. The paranoia so cleverly disguised as to supposedly 'protect' us. In essence, it protects and controls us in a reasonably well balanced (so called) status-quo. Albeit, one that is now growing somewhat out of control and a bit top-heavy. It will soon be too far out of control of us humans to deal with. We have be hoisted by our own rather lax and foolish petard! Those who think they are in control (God knows) are not. Those who want to shove the latest Manifesto down our kid's throats have desensitized and dumbed down that core of understanding their subjects should have had. Instead of an army of left-leaning enlightened youth that wants to further the amoral aims of their creators and take over, they have birthed ill-educated blobs that care nothing for any sane standard by which to live. Imagine the professors being euthenized by their progenies for the sake of the health of society! Anarchy is rising in direct proportion to our lack of morality. Apathy, arrogance and selfishness are the tenets of our state religions now. Anyone with half their senses still intact will see that this will not work for very long. The Lord's hand is not so short that He cannot save... But if we are too stupid to put down the soda and grab a life vest, we will deserve what happens to us. PGW
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Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/07/07 01:04:47 PM |
Age 49, TX |
As the addage goes "one's morality will dictate ones theology", or, as reflected in the Scriptures "Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom" (Prov 18:2). That is, a man willfully separated from the knowledge of holy things will turn and quarrel against those things he's separated from. So we have the ACLU, and its minions, typified in this article. It is alarming how little discernment American Christians, and Americans as a whole, exercise concerning this vile and Godless organization, as well as many others. Part of this lack of discernment lies in the fact that we've listened to the relentless propaganda, willingly invited into our homes, every day and night via the numerous 'Goebbels of the airwaves'. But much of the blame, at least in my opinion, goes further back in time. For several generations we went to sleep, comfortable with our 2 cars in every garage and our chicken in every pot. Each successive generation became incrementally more blind as we relished in our comfort and increasingly delegated, or neglected, our vigilance. When we should have been on guard we let others, who either were forbidden to teach the truth or who willingly used their position as a social change platform, train our children in government schools for 7-8 hours a day versus our 2-3 hours a day (at most). Perhaps now some of us are waking up, but as of yet have been unable to change anything for 2 basic reasons: First, those who see what's happening have been shut-out of our court system because spineless, self-centered politicans will not impeach judges and are instead more concerned about their pension plan and/or next election rather than the good of their own country. Or second, large segments of our population actually believe this elitest rubbage and want to leave our system alone. These impasses result in big, and potentially lethal, mistakes.
God is sovereign, and I am convinced we are seeing His judgement played-out before our very eyes, as I'm sure many of you will agree. Call it 'gloom and doom' if you like, but if we don't put aside what so easily besets us and in turn stand for truth, ALL truth, then we will certainly be trodden under foot of men.
Unfortunately, and I pray the Lord will have mercy, I can hear the jackboots coming our way.
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Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/07/07 09:26:42 AM |
Age 40, SK |
One usually hears of so-and-so arrested with child pornography on the computer etc. I have never heard of a great clampdown on the producers of child pornography. They seem to get away with it! Is there an effort to take out the producers of this crimimal activity?
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Re: Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/07/07 09:12:35 AM |
Age 41, TX |
"the school can't be constitutionally 'pro-cross'"????
Our entire Constitution is "pro-cross"!!!!! have you read it? our founding fathers meant it to be and could not have written it as is without being so...
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Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/07/07 07:51:16 AM |
Age 64, EL |
Its time conservatives take more agressive action in exposing the ACLU for the terrorist organization it truly is. Too many Americans are ignorant of the origins and purpose of the organization.
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Re: Two ACLU Leaders Causing Harm in Virginia: One Caught with Child Porn and the Other is Anti-Cross but pro Sex-Worker Art Show
| Posted On: 03/07/07 12:19:51 AM |
Age 30, MO |
"So how can a supposedly intelligent college president reconcile censoring a historic cross out of a chapel because it might possibly offend a few people, while paying for live sex acts that are certainly offensive to many of the college?s students, faculty and alumni?"
Because it is a public school, a fact that seems to be missing from the article. The cross is religious, the exhibit not so much. They are not necessarily anti-cross: the school can't constitutionally be "pro-cross." The exhibit is not bound to a specific religious creed.
Sorry this one is pretty cut and dry.
HJ hjhop.blogspot.com
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