Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 05/26/07 03:19:49 AM |
Age 58, AUSTRALIA |
I totally agree with you about age related activities, what about sex related. In my church,we are always seperated by age or sex. Young ladies group, young mens group, older youth not wanting younger youth to visit their group. I dont get to go to a group, as i work and the night groups are for young people, or mens group. We are supposed to be a body,I need a group for 50ish, working. want to be included somewhere. It is sad, it has come to this. We are teaching and practising segregation. Why would the youth respect or guidance from mature members, when it seems to b a conspiracy to keep them away from us. Ive spoke to my pastor about this, to no avail
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/05/07 02:26:41 PM |
Age 45, IN |
One other comment to '24 in NC'. In my 20 years in The Kingdom, I have not ever witnessed the leadership of a teen ministry seek true elders as workers (maybe it happens behind the scenes and they all decline). The prototypical youth worker seems to be someone who does not have chidren beyond the age of 10. I know there are exceptions to this, but I feel confident in stating that few ministers to teens have experience raising children to adulthood. I still think you've hit it on the head by saying it is a "split" issue though, because the "retirement" concept embraced by the last generation of the workforce is another worldly concept that plagues the church of today...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/05/07 02:20:23 PM |
Age 24, NC |
You shouldn't consider youth meetings a necessary evil at all. They have great potential to be so much more; a chance to strengthen a group of kids looking for answers. There is nothing wrong with people who have some commonality coming together in a church. Would you have a problem with a "newly-wed" class, or a "toddlers" class? The purpose of segregating ages to an extent is that it makes it easier for one speaker to focus on the issues pertaining to that group. There may not be an easier road to get through to adolescents than in a typical youth meeting. Yeah, kids who go to youth groups might come into contact with some things that parents might not consider wholesome; but the potential for significant life-change far outweighs any negative circumstances that might also be present.
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Re: Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/05/07 09:21:39 AM |
Age 45, IN |
Those of us visiting this site to track biblical worldview writings probably find easier agreement on this than the rest of our brethren at our local fellowships. Age-segregation is a humanist idea that has been embraced by the church. We don't find admonition for the idea in the scriptures, and actually quite the contrary. Where do we find scripture to support the idea that teens (or any age group) learn best from and with a group of their peers?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/05/07 09:09:18 AM |
Age 45, IN |
I agree with your summary. As an elder in my local church, I expressed grief over the carnal behavior I observe between boys&girls at the "Youth" meetings. I initially experienced objection to my offer to attend and be a "presence" in the meeting. It was suggested that I consider coming on "staff" in order to validate my presence. I have 2 children in the meetings and I'm an elder in the church, but my attendance at the church-sanctioned meeting is questioned? We as church leaders have allowed these big-kid groups to become entities unto themselves, and don't seem to have a problem with the fact that teens who have "amazing times of worship and prayer together in The Lord's Presence" on Sunday nights can't even get their hands out of their pockets on Sunday morning when the entire body assembles...
Why don't I join and "help out in youth" you ask? My problem there is that I see the whole concept as a "necessary evil" within the church. As head of a homeschool family, I already stand at odds with other leaders over age-segregation issues, and so my approach to teen ministry within my family has been to allow reasonable participation, but minimize it in the family culture.
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Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/04/07 09:40:16 PM |
Age 59, PA |
This was an excellent article. This is what is happening in our church. It began happening about 7 years ago when we got a new pastor. He began by making so many changes. One thing led to another. Today, there are two morning services, the first being for the "old folks" and the second for those that are "with it." The older people are totally neglected by the senior pastor. (What an ironic title.) He does not visit or shake hands with those who have been devoted Christians and members of the church for forty or more years. He really is only interested in "NEW" attenders. He has totally changed not only the format of the services, but the music, and even, how to be saved. REPENTANCE IS NO LONGER NEEDED. Older people's wisdom is not tapped into or wanted. I believe that the minister and the church are guilty of committing "spiritual euthanasia" to senior members by taking their Sunday school classrooms and by totally neglecting them. How sad. A former pastor in the church always said "The church is just one generation from being lost." That generation has passed through the doors when the pastor came to our once fundamental, evangelical church. How sad.
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Re: Re: Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/04/07 12:35:32 PM |
Age 24, NC |
I think it is a split issue, really. There are many elderly people who want nothing to do with younger kids, and there are many youth pastors who try and keep elderly people as far from their youth groups as possible. This is a very big problem in and of itself. As pertains specifically to youth groups, there are a lot of youth pastors who are begging for adult volunteers to come in to their youth groups for training, discipleship, and teaching. The problem that so many of these youth pastors have, though, is that there aren't alot of adults who are willing to set aside that extra time to help out in youth. They've got ministries and jobs and families of their own, so they see it, sadly, as just another straw on the camel's back, rather than a chance to strengthen those who will one day take their place. Kids absolutely need older people teaching them, though, and would be eager to learn if there were adults willing to sacrifice some time in order to disciple the youth.
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Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/03/07 09:55:02 PM |
Age 51, AZ |
The problems the Church of Jesus Christ face run far deeper and more difficut than just youths vs. elders. The Church is struggling mightily because it has lost its primary focus to correctly evangelize and properly use the Law to fulfill the Great Commission. Because the Church has relegated its primary mission to the storage locker (only 3 to 7% of professed Christians work at evangelizing), it has lost its bearings and true identity. Many pastors no longer make it a priority to evangelize, they have their hands full just working as hard as possible to keep the attending membership from shrinking too fast. This Sunday, take a glance at those in attendance and see how many will serve God during this week by trying to evangelize even one non-Christian. Now, fast forward and reflect on that coming promised day when you will stand in front of Jesus and explain why you were not obedient in this most important responsibility.
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Re: Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/03/07 08:49:50 PM |
Age 30, IA |
That's the reason for my question below.
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Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/02/07 05:58:47 PM |
Age 28, TX |
Very well-written article. I've often felt uncomfortable about the newer terms people use for Jesus, and that they seem to forget that among His titles appear "God" and "King"!
I must be strange for a person with no gray hairs (yet), but I haven't had a problem with regarding Christ as a Sovereign Monarch since I really accepted Him. In retrospect, it seems that as long as I had a notion that I had some measure of "rights" or "purpose" or whatnot, I couldn't quite manage to surrender all and accept His rule!
Isn't it funny, how He grows in majesty as one stops thinking in terms of oneself? Alas, that's the only thinking most young folks do these days: of themselves...
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Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/02/07 12:00:13 PM |
Age 45, IN |
In this excellent article Paul writes: " I really do pity those attending a gathering where the eldest member was born after Vietnam". I daresay he overlooked the fact that nearly every church in America has one of these nefarious gatherings.... We call them Youth Groups, or some other more trendy name. We take all the 12-18 year-olds and give them a cool, well-meaning 20-something as a leader, then we question why the young people just won't grow up...
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Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/02/07 11:42:58 AM |
Age 38, MO |
Great article, Paul. I have been grieved for sometime at how the older folks of our churches are getting relegated to the back of the bus so to speak. I think we may be putting a lot of younger people in charge at our churches because of their hip factor, and not because of expierence and wisdom, and that God actually called them to that position.
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Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/01/07 11:21:25 PM |
Age 30, IA |
Good points but is it not the church elders who encourage segregation between the young and old?
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Re: Forgetting Those Who Have Gone Before
| Posted On: 03/01/07 04:13:47 PM |
Age 19, MN |
Very nice. I think this was a very good article and it certainly keeps things in perspective. Keep it up! God Bless and have a great day!
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