Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/25/07 12:01:05 AM |
Age 47, MO |
Ken Silva, I agree with your article about T.D. Jakes. The analogies that you made are right on. On other theological issues, one could also put the label "coward" on Joel Osteen, Pat Robertson, Jay Bakker, and Paul and Jan Crouch. However, I also agree with responders who are asking you to give solid scriptural explanations about the Trinity, as well as clear Biblical teaching which shows why Modalism is an anti-scriptural heresy and why Jakes' view is heretical and destructive to the Gospel. The other responders who have attacked you and defended Jakes really need those solid scriptural explanations.
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/25/07 12:00:09 AM |
Age 51, GA |
You are dead wrong on that Kenny. Tell me where you find Saint Paul calling anyone a coward. Maybe you walk perfect as our Lord did, so you can call someone a whited wall, or a viper. Sure, obviously you do not walk perfect, and you definitely do not know everything regarding the Trinity, or anything else for that matter. If you do we'd all like to know how it works. I'd like to see you call him a coward to his face. I suggest you go back and study Ephesians chapter 4 real hard before you go around calling people names. You better make sure you're walking a near perfect path. Do you recall it is written that we have to answer for every word? Are you going to tell the Lord how you were keeping those crazy pentecostals - their theology straight for Him? Is He going to give you a special crown for being a theological superstar? Is that why He chose no theologians among the disciples to spread His message, because He was waiting on you? Doubt it bro', stow the name calling. Here's the last 4 verses out of Chapter 4 - "Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."
Spread the gospel, not strife.
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 09:36:00 PM |
Age 30, TN |
Ken, the instructions for leaving feedback at this site contain the following: "We encourage healthy debating but will not accept feedback with personal attacks. Commenting on a person's public statements, actions and writings is not considered a personal attack." That said, if you called me a coward, whether behind my back, straight to my face, or in a published article with the title "Brian Is A Coward", I would certainly consider it a personal attack. If I called you a coward would you consider it to be a personal attack? If so, then why do it to someone else? And why would CWN publish your articles if the articles could be considered personal attacks? I believe that you hope to have a positive influence on the lives of many people, but at this point I think your chances of ever personally having a positive influence on the several men you have publicly ridiculed recently are fast approaching zero. I believe also that you hope to have a long and fruitful ministry that extends to a very wide audience, but your mischaracterization of good men such as the president of the SBC and the president of Southern Seminary does not seem to me to be helpful to your acheiving that goal. Thank you for warning other Christians to beware of false teaching. I commend you for that. But for goodness sake, Ken, lighten up on the name calling. I have enjoyed reading articles, leaving feedback, and engaging in some lively debate, but this is getting beyond ridiculous. And for your own sake, be careful. There are those in this world who have much thinner skin and nothing to lose and would not tolerate a slap in the face such as being called a coward. --Brian
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Re: Unmasking Heretics
| Posted On: 01/24/07 07:22:23 PM |
Age 55, NZ |
Ken - I agree with the posts below that take you to task over your approach. The internet is overloaded with shallow invective that passes for "defending the faith", and from which the apostles themselves would not be safe. What is needed is not these empty diatribes against confused characters like Jakes, but clear Biblical teaching which shows WHY Modalism is an anti-scriptural heresy. The very fact that some respondents here seem to think that this issue is "hair-splitting", and that anyone as ready to set their opinions above the word of God as a Modalist does is still surely a brother in Christ shows how utterly careless most contemporary Christians are when it comes to Bible truth. But simply attacking the heretic on a personal level does exactly nothing to correct this, nor does it strengthen God's people in these perilous times. What we need is a solid scriptural explanation of precisely WHY Jakes' views are heretical and why they are destructive to the Gospel. I suggest you either rise to this challenge, or find something more productive to do.
- Tumbleweed
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 05:01:19 PM |
Age 48, FL |
Something else I have a problem with here is the incessant use of labels within the body of Christ. I personally don't care how someone describes themselves: as being Baptist, Pentacostal, whatever. I'd just assume be called a child of Christ. One of problems I've seen over the years is the concept of guilt by associatian. For example, I see a lot of excess within "pentacostal" circles, things that aren't Biblical taking place, things done that clearly violate spiritual & scriptual order, things practiced that have no Biblical basis, such as "holy laughter" and being "slain in the Spirit". But, I also beleive the gifts, all of them, mentioned in scripture are still in operation. Baptists say that makes me pentacostal, Pentacostals say I don't have enough of the Spirit because I don't place the same emphasis on those things as they do. Because of all the abuses that take place, and because certain big name evangelists happen to be "pentacostal", well - you know the rest.
I know this article wasn't about cessationist doctrine vs pentacostal doctrine, and I'm not trying to start one here, but this business with all this labeling is unfruitful.
If a doctrine clearly violates foundational, essential Christian beliefs, then point it out and move on.
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 01:57:56 PM |
Age 48, IL |
The concept of the Trinity is by no means explicitly explained in the Bible, so all we have are man's suppositions and interpretations on the nature of the Godhead. When one actually sits down and studies the Bible, one finds that the views of Oneness Pentecostals are scripturally sound, and do not differ that much from Trinitarians. It seems more like an issue of semantics, and for Ken Silva to write such an antagonistic and divisive article on the subject, painting Oneness Pentecostals as heretics, is irresponsible at best.
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 01:47:54 PM |
Age 61, TX |
Well said, Pastor Silva! I think what some may call criticism, in reality is discernment on your part. Thank God, there are still some Spiritual leaders with discernment! I think we should pray for Jakes, but it's overwhelming to think about all the people whom he reaches in person and through TV, and wrongly teaches. I guess I'm more concerned about the totals of all those people than I am him. I don't know if Jakes is a Spiritual coward or just a cunning and politically (not doctrinally) correct business man - - or both, to his own financial benefit. He's not going to say anything that will alienate any one group and result in their not supporting him financially. He's quoted as saying The myth of the poor Jesus needs to be destroyed, because its holding people back. He was referring to sowing financial seed for "the increase." (Kaylois Henry, Bishop Jakes Is Ready. Are You?, The Dallas Observer magazine, June 20-26, 1996, pg. 31. PFO Quarterly Journal Article) Jakes refers to an adulterous man as a frightened little boy and a wife beater as a terrified little boy. (Jakes, "Loose That Man," pg. 123-124. PFO Quarterly Journal Article) He doesn't call adulterers and wife beaters what the Bible calls them; sinners! Thank you for the courage to take a stand and, unlike Jakes, tell it like it is! God Bless You!
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Re: Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 12:00:25 PM |
Age 56, OR |
I fully appreciate your response to this article and I agree with most of your comment, as I also agree with others that have responded to Ken Silva. And yes, I believe Ken could have written in a more positive way toward Jakes. Yet, how should the Christian respond to the subtle heresies that have crept into the Church for the past 30 years or so? As you know, a heresy contains much truth. But any truth found in a heresy is used to mask a lie. And that lie inevitably leads from dependence on Christ to dependence upon the flesh. If I offer you a dinner plate of your favorite meal with a poison you cannot detect, then because of the attractiveness of the meal it becomes much more dangerous to you.
2 Thess 2 speaks of a great falling away of the Church before the return of Christ. Who are these false Christians and what is the "lie" the text says they believe? I don't believe that this "lie" is going to be an obvious one. Like all heresies of the past, the enemy has crafted his specialty of leaning away from Christ in such a way that in the last days "almost the very elect" will be deceived. I am thankful for those who are united in the worldview network for taking a stand that can often be misunderstood as a hostile point of view. It is really more comfortable to be popular and agreeable than to say what needs to be said even when what is being said may not sound too Christ-like.
I have to remind myself when I read a negative article to weigh then intent and not get caught up in the very thing that I oppose. Instead, I attempt to follow the words of our Lord, "You shall know them by their fruit." This helps me to look at the consistencies and inconsistencies of a thing or person and just pray that I am seeing what God wants me to see.
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 10:49:41 AM |
Age 46, MN |
Act 5:30!
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 10:35:19 AM |
Age 38, TX |
And how does cowardice show up in your life? Maybe when you hide behind judgement? Hmm.
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 09:35:28 AM |
Age 66, TX |
At the outset, let me make clear that I'm no fan of T.D. Jakes and I reject the oneness doctrine and Jake's Word Faith theology. All this said, I still don't understand your motivation for writing this article, and stirring up more disunity in the Body of Christ. For many Christians, the distinction between trinitarian and oneness is splitting theological hairs, more semantics than substance and hardly the grounds on which to brand a man a "coward". Do you regard Jakes as a Christian - a brother in Christ? Have you engaged him in person with regard to the doctrinal differences between the two of you? In checking Apprising Ministries before responding to your essay, I noted that now you are criticizing Dr. Albert Mohler, Dr. Charles Stanley and Dr. Frank Page for what appears to be their "failures" to join you in your condemnations of Seeker Sensitive Churches and Ed Young, Jr's "error" in sharing the pulpit with TD Jakes. One cannot help but ask "Why so much anger and hostility towards brothers in Christ?".
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 09:03:31 AM |
Age 25, MO |
Dear Mr. Silva,
Thanks for your informational articles but
I think you have crossed the line into name calling and your article gives me the impression that you are bitter towards T.D. Jakes. Your title "T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward" puts a bad taste in my mouth. It has a very mean spirited tone. Let us pray for T.D. Jakes. What if instead of all the time we take bashing and picking people apart we prayed for them. I mean agonizing, gut wrenching prayer for their souls. The stay up all night violent kind of prayer. Grace, compassion, mercy, love, and joy. These are a few things I personally pray for God to help me with. I like T.D. Jakes. I may not agree with his doctrine, but I like him. I listened to a sermon of his about a year ago and it helped me spiritually break through some doubt and unbelief. I'm not giving up on him.
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 08:42:00 AM |
Age 35, MD |
Wow Ken! You have done it again... called someone a bad name, and "proved" your "point" with some lovely ad hominem and straw man arguments. Instead of heading off on your "what do I assume TD Jakes would say to pilate" rabbit trail, why not look at his statements in context? And since we are not all theologians, why not define modalism, and oneness, and explain (using the Bible, and actual logic) why they are so wrong. And then show how numerous statements by TD Jakes, taken in context,show that he holds strictly to these positions.
If you went to dinner and were heard to say "I like spaghetti", is it safe to assume that if you stood before pilate all you'd say is "I like spaghetti?" Your poorly reasoned articles are not doing anyone in the body of Christ any good...
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Re: T.D. Jakes Is A Spiritual Coward
| Posted On: 01/24/07 06:46:08 AM |
Age 33, FL |
Being a pentecostal (not Oneness), I am interested in this issue. However, I have not heard anything in this article other than frustration that Pastor Jakes doesn't come out and set the record straight for all his critics. All the quotations in the article do not lend themselves to the suggestion of oneness, but quite the contrary.
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